I've never dated a Protestant

http://www.poolparty.com/poolparty/images/2007/11/14/kkk.jpg

Some non-sectarian Americans, yesterday.

This is surprising because there are megatons of Protestants in the U.S>!

no, you're crazy. there is no prejudice whatsoever going on in this land.

(xpost to noodlevague)

Abbott, yeah, I dunno. Someone once offered up the explanation that I am attracted to "the other"...and sometimes I feel like people who were raised Catholic (like me) have some uncanny ability to um, sniff each other out or something. It's weird.

That's because Catholics smell funny.

y'mean, like frankincense and myrrh? or like (insert priests as pedophiles-related joke here)?

I tell you what, ex-Mormons can sense each other from across a room.

That's what happens when you start wearing your underwear on the outside.

I never earned my underwear. ;_;

No, but Abbott, are you serious-ish? b/c I feel like the same deal happens with Catholics

I am so for real! You can just tell in some subtle, implacable way.

Ok, yeah. Well, how would you caricature the vibe you get from them? b/c, yeah, this is potentially getting into dodgy territory, but I feel like people who were raised Roman Catholic give off this particularly earthy sort of thing, whereas people brought up Protestant seem more, I dunno, uptight, and weirdly assured of their place in the world, less demonstrably emotional, etc. I am projecting all manner of things, here, most likely, but nonetheless that's part of what I pick up through my distorted way of viewing the world

Like, ye olde catholics exhibit a maudlin, neurotic way of going through the world that is simply not the case w/the protestant folkses.

They tend to have a complete tactful but wiseass vibe, always being prepared (have extra pens, guitar strings, lighters, etc.), know their Bible a little too well. Funny odd ducks, pleasantly worldly.

Kind of arcane senses of humor, maybe bcz they have such useless arcane knowledge. Usually polite.

No, but Abbott, are you serious-ish? b/c I feel like the same deal happens with Catholics

same with jews, although the noses and the last names are usually a dead giveaway

whereas people brought up Protestant seem more, I dunno, uptight, and weirdly assured of their place in the world, less demonstrably emotional, etc.

Maybe Anglicans/Lutherans/etc. - evangelicals nuh-uh.

xposts

Hmm, that's interesting. So they are basically such upright, solid, together-ish citizens to the degree that is near-intimidating?

y'mean, like frankincense and myrrh?

No. Catholics smell like sin. It's intoxicating.

Maybe Anglicans/Lutherans/etc. - evangelicals nuh-uh.

Yeah, that makes sense, and I was thinking more of the Episcopalian, presbyterian, methodist, etc. strand, and not the evangelical or fundamentalist contingent

so it's not like Catholic/Protestant divide is as dramatic as it is in the U.K

hahahahahahahahaha you don't live in the south, do you?

catholics = father guilt
jews = mother guilt
protestants = work-ethic guilt?

where does indie guilt fit in?

protestants = work-ethic guilt?

probably not, but that would make a nicely complimentary stereotype.

There's just too many protestants round here to make any generalizations that I can think of.

hahahahahahahahaha you don't live in the south, do you?

nah, i plead ignorance. what's that all about?

catholics = father guilt
jews = mother guilt
protestants = work-ethic guilt?

wow. we're all screwed, then.

where does indie guilt fit in?

Unitarians?

What is the guilt of a follower of Eckankar?

(That religion is most hilars!)

nah, i plead ignorance. what's that all about?

read one Jack Chick tract

the kind of protestant demoninations that are popular in the bible belt are historically been rather hostile to "papists", whom they see as just shy of pagan devil-worshippers.

All being like "That scarlet whore of Babylon in Revelations? She represents THE CATHOLIC CHURCH."

indie guilt = popists! (old-ilm humor)

oh, okay, gotcha.

re: whore of babylon, etc. (the scarlet one, i mean)

WHY IS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH SUCH A DIRTY, DIRTY WHORE?!!

Granted, it's better now than it was when I first moved here (Greenville, SC), since the area has grown a bit and attracted people from other parts of the country. But a lot of the Southern Baptists that dominate religion here are still under the impression Catholics worship the Virgin Mary.

I've been to two Catholic churches since I moved to the south, they are quite different indeed from Catholic churches elsewhere. My regular church is this one. I have to say that while a lot of Catholics visiting the South don't like the different feel of Southern Catholic churches, Holy Cross is really, really awesome.

What is the guilt of a follower of Eckankar?

I'm guessing it would revolve around guilt concerning perceived inadequacies around the practice of teleporting one's self in order to commune with made-up swamis bearing absurd names

<3 Eckenkar

I read some book where Harold Klemp made a parable out of some fly he saw at McDonald's.

I remember being happy to see an Eckankar house down in Dunedin, New Zealand.

the eckankars are all over l.a.

And are HILARIOUS!

How long have you been a practicing/observant Catholic, J0hn?

I read some book where Harold Klemp made a parable out of some fly he saw at McDonald's.

that's SRI Harold Klemp, young lady. show some respect

Come to think of it, I've never dated a Christian! All atheists, except for my man, who is an ex-Mo and reads a lot of religiousy-type stuff but isn't religious.

Oh, I'm just talking about people who were raised within a certain tradition, not what they are necessarily up to now

WFMU had a great Eckankar song on one of their fund-raising cassettes a while back...

And I checked and here's the whole thing -- gotta download it all, trust me.

Sri Darwin Gross - At The Grassroots
The faith of Eckankar, besides advocating low-cost travel through the time-space continuum, has a long history of charismatic (albeit tonedeaf) leaders. Here, the then-reigning Echmaster belts out a melody of his own, uh, devising.

<3 Eckankar.

OMG Radio Charlie on that comp is awesome. Horrible and mad and awesome.

I read some book where Harold Klemp made a parable out of some fly he saw at McDonald's.

lol, that... that... that's just downright unbeatable.

Also, I live in U.S., so it's not like Catholic/Protestant divide is as dramatic as it is in the U.K....

Um, we're a pretty secular country, it's only in little corners that religous divides really matter, broadly speaking.

i only ever dated catholics, pretty small sample size in my case tho ; )

Outside the Church there is No Salvation

"Outside the Church there is no salvation" is a doctrine of the Catholic Faith that was taught By Jesus Christ to His Apostles, preached by the Fathers, defined by popes and councils and piously believed by the faithful in every age of the Church. Here is how the Popes defined it:

"There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved." (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.)

"We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff." (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.)

"The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church." (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)

But man, following the example of his natural father, Adam, often disobeys the authority of God. The fact that the doctrine had to be thrice defined itself proves the Church's paternal solicitude in correcting her erring children who fall into indifferentism.

how does one go about getting excommunicated?

you could try kiddie fiddling, but i wouldn't hold my breath if i were you.

lolallujah!

Abbott my ex-gf's family is Eckist. They have a lot of hippie friends. (Hence my various eck refs across ILX b/c I find Sri Harold Klemp amusing)

I think I still have the "HU" cassette they gave me

Or you could just watch this, Curt1s:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoBwtVYM-e8

What's cool about Catholicism is that its narrative still follows from its foundation nearly 2000 years ago. I was watching the Catholic TV channel (EWTN I think) for some bizarre reason, and the show was subtly referring to American Protestantism in terms of the ancient heresies, like Manicheaism, Pelagianism, Gnosticism, etc. I'm not religious anymore, but there's some pretty weird/cool stuff you have to go through in your Catholic education.

I haven't dated a protestant either. Current gf's parents are (intense) maronites. I have only dated girls raised as catholics. I guess because a lot of my friends went to catholic schools. I'd say most of these people don't consider themselves catholics anymore though.

In fact the only non-catholic girl I ever got with was a muslim who went to a catholic school.

what is a "maronite"?

EWTN is super-creepy

how have i remained ignorant of this eckankar stuff until this thread? is it mostly a college campus thing??

Depends on the campus, I guess -- never noticed a group either at UCLA or at UCI.

I just know about it from cable access TV shows and the internet tube-system.

Its world HQ seems to be in Chanhassen MN, which kind of says it all, really. Between the dinner theatre and the RenFest site, I imagine...

If I ever have the privilege of being seated adjacent to a table at an Applebee's in Minnesota where Sri Harold Klemp is dining, then my life will have not been lived in vain.

You may be surprised to read that no amount of crackpot religious leaders within an Applebee's (or similar) would cause me to 'dine' in one.

I had never heard of this crazy cult until this very morning. Chanhassen pretty crowded with weird shit; I wonder how close Eckankar HQ is to Paisley Park.

As to the actual thread topic, went out with one lapsed Catholic, the rest were lapsed Protestant or didn't align to any religion at all.

Ha, I suppose I was inspired to make that lame attempt at funny b/c the only time I have ever eaten at an Applebee's was in Minnesota...so I associate that land with that fucking place. The food was shit-awful, FWIW. (but the people working there were nice!)

Maybe it would be a better life aspiration for me to try to date a protestant woman

I am still chuckling about the idea of the catholic protestant divide being 'dramatic' in the UK. Outside of northern ireland and possibly glaswegian football fans I don't think this really figures. In england at least the the church of england is largely a compromise whereby catholic style ritual and and protestant style doctrine can coexist without anyone having to set fire to anyone else for heresy. By and large though 70% of the population is not practicing although, sadly, most still identify with some nebulous idea of being 'christian'.

I've dated a German girl who is to become a Lutheran pastor. Even though I'm a staunch atheist, there weren't any big problems, because she was super tolerant. I don't know how it is in the USA, but in Europe I think Lutherans tend to be more open-minded than other Christian sects; they even marry gays and lesbians in churches in Sweden, and there's a big debate in Finland at the moment whether the Finnish Lutheran church should do the same. I think I'd have a hard time dating anyone who thinks homosexuality is a sin, women shouldn't be priests, etc.

I think biggest problem with me dating a Christian or anyone firmly religious would be, if it got to the point where we would consider having kids, how would we raise them? Because she would probably want to raise them according to her religion, whereas I most definitely would not.

We have that covered. Mrs V takes the kids to church sometimes, then when they get back I tell them it's all a load of bollocks.

And you don't have any disagreements over that? I mean, if I had kids I'd probably want to teach them there is no god, but what if my SO would feel equally strong that there is one?

Someone could right a really sexy song about protestants, in the style of "Smorgasbord" by Elvis Presley or "Girls, Girls, Girls" by Jay-Z, listing all the denominations you've been with.

Actually, having thought about this, it's harder than you would think. I can only come up with the concluding lines of the verses.

"And Wesleyan ladies with their special Methods"

"and my Pentecostal ladies had me speaking in tongues"

I don't know how it is in the USA, but in Europe I think Lutherans tend to be more open-minded than other Christian sects

-- Tuomas, Sunday, April 20, 2008 8:41 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link

http://www.conservapedia.com/images/thumb/f/f4/Hitler7.JPG/300px-Hitler7.JPG

Hitler was raised Catholic, wasn't he?

Yeah, but that dude with the pompadour on the left was a Lutheran.

Er, as far as I know Hitler wasn't Lutheran. There's even some debate whether he was a Christian at all. Anyway, I was talking about Lutheran churches of today. As far as I know, both Protestant and Catholic churches in Nazi Germany collaborated with them.

(xx-post)

I mean, if I had kids I'd probably want to teach them there is no god, but what if my SO would feel equally strong that there is one?

Without wanting to get too beardy, you can just ask them what they think. Instilling good morals in kids is more about getting them to examine their own ideas than it is about making them stick to strong principles. Kierkegaard said you are always becoming a Christian, you never just are one, and Sartre felt the same was true of being (becoming) an atheist. I think it's good for kids to get used to the idea that religion is something that's complicated and hard to agree on early on.

Religion is complicated as a social phenomenon, but not in its truth value - there's simply no objective truth to it. So I guess I would want to teach my kids to respect religions to a certain degree, but if they'd ask me whether god really exists, I would tell them he doesn't, just like like I'd tell them if they'd ask about dragons or unicorns.

I mean, if they later on would start believing in god anyway, that's their choice, but I would be lying if I said to them the existence of god is a complicated issue.

i am jewish and have never dated a jew.
but i am really an agnostic, and i think everyone i've ever dated would identify as either an atheist or an agnostic, right?

I wouldn't want to tell my kids what is and isn't true, I want them to work it out. If they ask about unicorns I can say that people are pretty agreed on that one and we can go over why. If they ask about god I can say what I think and what other people think and we can look at that too. I don't want my kids or anyone else agreeing with me without good reasons.

Well, you get your answer when you decide (whether) to marry and have kids, I guess. A lot of lifelong agnostics find themselves married in church or temple and then with kids who have to be baptized or christened or whatever. That can lead on to actual religion. My mother is no fan of church either (her experiences are weddings and funerals where the officiant knows fuck all about the deceased) but gets cross with me for being atheist and thinks everyone's a Catholic in the emergency room (except her).

I probably wouldn't ever get married *because* it's a church and property thing. As far as I am aware the last time anyone in my family cared about their religion was on a boat leaving France in 1685.

When Hitler fist came to power, he had significant support among the Lutheran leaders, many of whom had even joined the National Socialist Party. The Lutheran establishment as a whole supported Hitler for his promise to eliminate bolshevism and stabilize Germany. Hitler's support of "positive Christianity" was not alarming to a church that was highly anti-Semitic.

the only lutheran i knew growing up was rightwing as fuck, card carrying nra member by the fifth grade, prone to cunga/colin style coded racist rantings. when he finally got a girlfriend we nicknamed her 'eva braun'. dude also loved tennis.

last month i booked the INTERNATIONAL LUTHERAN ACADEMY for a field trip to my job - youd think theyd be located in i dunno germany or something instead of marietta georgia

NAZIS
http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/041210/041210_daveygoliath_hmed_12p.hmedium.jpg

what is a "maronite"?

Lebanese catholics

Also, I live in U.S., so it's not like Catholic/Protestant divide is as dramatic as it is in the U.K....

What do you mean?

Protestant Presidents = 41
Catholic Presidents = 1
Catholic Presidents Who Managed Not to Get Their Brains Blown Out = 0

it is refreshing to see that in the early days of the US there was a president who was a Deist.

Deism is quite appealing.

Frozen in carbonite for his troubles

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cc/Bonhoeffer_Ordination_gedaenktafel.jpg/448px-Bonhoeffer_Ordination_gedaenktafel.jpg

Without wanting to get too beardy, you can just ask them what they think.

loltastic.