are you an atheist?

just answer!!

hmm. Can't even guess what these results will look like.

i don't know if you're being sarcastic or not. i don't know what they'll look like.

I predict ILX is 80-90% atheist.

well we've only got 1 day so let's see =P

i just asked a friend about this and she's now furiously IMing me the history of religion. in a conversational way, not a missionary way.

it's exciting.

missionary gets a bad rap.

This is a bit of a flawed question, because saying "no" implies you're religious, which isn't true.

I'm not an athiest. But I'm not religious at all. So what do I answer?

no

atheism = no theism

Yeah, I'm actually guessing a lot of "no"s from people like me who find mainstream religion obnoxious but can't quite commit to something as absolute as atheism.

I get what Trayce is saying, tho, because when someone says "I'm an atheist" there's a terrible moment where you just KNOW their next words will be "and Ayn Rand is a great thinker."

I'm now starting to consider myself an atheist.

I'm too wishywashy to be that bald about it, like my ex is. He's of the "when you die you die, there is no soul, we're all atoms" persuasion, and I still have a smidge of "but what if...?" in me I guess. Not a god thing - more like a "hey how do we explain human thought and reason and collective unconcious and etc etc?" stuff.

Hahah also Kenan is otm.

i don't consider myself an atheist or a believer of a capital G God, more of in an abstract higher power of some sort

lol i am in college

i voted yes for the basis of this poll tho

I'm atheist and Ayn Rand is a great plonker.

Privately, I am completely hostile to the idea of religion. Dawkins-like. It's ludicrous, dangerous, and counter in every way to what I believe should be all of humanity's goal of calmly and productively sharing the planet. But I really try to keep all that under wraps. What good does it do to express it openly?

Not a god thing - more like a "hey how do we explain human thought and reason and collective unconcious and etc etc?" stuff.

I wonder about this all the time but adding God into the equation doesn't really solve much of anything!

you didn't have to kenan! it's a poll not an inquisition

=P

how do we explain non-human thought?

In some way that does not involve the interpolation of imagined deities.

how do we explain non-human thought?

heh... beg the question much?

for a while, i was all agnostic, then atheist, now i don't really care anymore. no one knows shit in the long run.

and anyone who does think they know, whether they be a christian fundie or militant atheist, irritates the snot out of me.

so i guess that makes me uber-agnostic?

i'll cop to being "non-theist" though.

Yeah, but the devout believe they DO know shit, that's what's dangerous about them! If everyone thought like you, it wouldn't be a problem.

that was four xposts

militant atheist

Unlike the xtian fundie, I kinda feel like the "militant atheist" is as much of a strawman as the "feminazi." Defending science and rational thought is not a form of dogma, and Oh god we have had this discussion SO. MANY. TIMES.

I see militant atheists as those people who insist on badgering the fuck out of religious people in the hope that they just stop being religious. Hence a valid term imo.

Where does this happen? And if anywhere, how is it bugging you?

I wouldn't even care about xtian fundies if not for the fact that they have controlled the government for the last eight years.

unless you mean those snooty pricks who want to teach evolution in school...

It doesn't bug me.

Where does it happen? The internet.

Yeah I hate it when the powerful badger the powerless.

Powerful Badger The Powerless: A new, self-contradictory superhero from Japan.

I'd describe myself as a non-militant atheist. We do exist.

WAHT? You mean you're not even armed?

xp It's already in my spazbook profile.

yeah how is dawkins not a scarecrow dancing as yr strawman? strawman? a good friend of mine trades his atheist tracts with the christian door knockers. which i think is pretty funny actually. he's really friendly about it.

I was a militant atheist once, but I sort of demobbed myself. Those who say that militant atheism is somewhat dogmatic and indicative of an authoritarian personality, no so far from a fundie, have a point.

xpost Well, I don't go around acting like Dawkins. I don't think he's wrong about much though, it's just that his approach is futile and even counter to his desired effect. Being the poster boy for angry anti-God scientists is a foolish thing to be, especially seeing as how "anti-God scientists" are not otherwise organized in any way.

I'm a militant agnostic - I don't know / can't prove anything and neither can anyone else.

There have been enough ppl on here who have quite aggressively knocked the likes of ANairn, Dee, and Kiwi to make me think militant/Dawkins style athieism is plenty prevalent.

I'm with Latebloomer tho I think - we Just Don't Know shit (even with science's best).

Yes, I'm inclined to agree.

I've never been militant, but I've had some rather heated arguments with fundies regarding the foundation (or lack thereof) of their beliefs. Usually in response to them querying my stance, which is very easily defensible.

(^this last with apologies from a preacher's kid—and former editor of a journal abt religions)

Full disclosure: I admit it was lazy and cheap to appear to conflate Abrahamic visions of the godhead into Beard Dude. If that was what set silby off, I take responsibility and will flay myself appropriately in private.

I was (and am) aware of the prohibitions in Judaism and Islam about depictions of the deity; in a moment of rapid typing I engaged in an act of casual shorthand.

So, with that out of the way: I strongly disagree that the assembled ilxor heathens are only addressing Christianity. For me? Adonai, Aphrodite, and Apollo are all on equally shaky ground and have not hesitated to say so. Personally I've been exactly as dismissive of Norse gods as I am of Jehovah. I'm an equal-opportunity god-mocker.

I am still fuzzy on the gravamen of silby's charge of antisemitism. Is it somehow antisemitic to be an atheist or agnostic if your rejection is limited to rejections of Christian doctrine? (By which I mean, the doctrine that is currently obscenely prevalent in US culture?)

Okay. I am happy to state that I am just as contemptuous of the ancient Babylonian gods as I am of the god worshipped by Mike Huckabee and Jerry Falwell.

Does that help?

here just choosing to ignore the antisemitism charge because wtaf

I don't get what silby did itt that was so bad. And I think it's weird that no one commented on this post, which strikes me as egregiously worrying mod behavior (at least I assume Tombot is a mod based on his access to fp totals?):

I am giving you advice. you have nearly 40 fps. you are generally disliked. consider your approach.

― sound of scampo talk to me (El Tomboto), Sunday, August 2, 2020 12:24 AM (eleven hours ago)

I think mods warning posters when they're accruing fps can be a kind gesture, but surely it should be done privately, not as a public threat intended to get a poster to alter their posting in a way the mod approves of and certainly not accompanied by stating "you are generally disliked" like it's a fact.

The only religious explanation I would be OK with is "god is an evil irrational sadist".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism

fwiw I don't think the antisemitism charge was directed at atheists at all. It was directed at the "whatever" dismissal of the differences between the Abrahamic religions, and prioritising of Christian conceptions as emblematic of all Abrahamic religions. While I don't think the intent was at all antisemitic or Islamophobic on your parts, such dismissal of difference as insignificant is *definitely* part of the Christocentric thinking that leads to structural antisemitism and Islamophobia.

"whatever" dismissal of the differences between the Abrahamic religions, and prioritising of Christian conceptions as emblematic of all Abrahamic religions

nobody itt doing this though

I admit it was lazy and cheap to appear to conflate Abrahamic visions of the godhead into Beard Dude. If that was what set silby off, I take responsibility and will flay myself appropriately in private.

I was (and am) aware of the prohibitions in Judaism and Islam about depictions of the deity; in a moment of rapid typing I engaged in an act of casual shorthand.

Like, this is INCREDIBLY dismissive of someone's religion, you realise that? And yes, I know you're dismissing all religions because this is a thread about atheism, but you are 100% being culturally insensitive in a way that diminishes Judaism and Islam more than Xianity. "Oh, I'm just ignoring facets of your religion for my own convenience, what could be wrong with that?"

"Oh, I'm just ignoring facets of your religion for my own convenience, what could be wrong with that?"

This is the entire history of religion iirc.

Why do religious people give a shit that a non believer dismisses their religion

Fair point, pom.

Granny, because it can have real-world consequences? And often has? And in fact still does?

In answer to the original question, I'm pragmatically atheist and philosophically agnostic, funnily enough for a lot of the same reasons YMP and Hadrian give, except that I'm not "contemptuous" of other people's gods, I just don't believe in them.

silby otm

I know you're dismissing all religions because this is a thread about atheism, but you are 100% being culturally insensitive in a way that diminishes Judaism and Islam more than Xianity.

I don't know abt YMP but I'm not dismissing or diminishing any religions. And I'm not an atheist. I was addressing a pretty obvious commonality among the three major monotheistic religions which have a sacred text in common.

Religious ppl perpetually getting offended at every perceived slight tends to be the thing that has the real world consequences tho

The bearded dude conception of God is not an "obvious commonality." Even in the Christian Bible there's not a physical description of God that describes Him as having a beard iirc.

no shit

a paternalistic god is the obvious commonality.

Oh, sorry Hadrian, I think I was confusing some of your posts with agreeing with YMP's in a way that meant you were agreeing with the dismissal (re-opening the full thread makes my computer chug too much). I think you can argue for the similarity without being "like, whatever, shorthand" offensive, but it's still worth listening to someone who is obviously pretty offended by the conflations being made.

We're all just culturally appropriating Zoroastrianism.

^truth

this thread makes me embarrassed to be an atheist

xxp s'okay

"but you are 100% being culturally insensitive in a way that diminishes Judaism and Islam more than Xianity."

So does one need to be a religious scholar and constantly take the time to include every single religion in the discussion to not be culturally insensitive? Christianity is by far the dominant religion in my culture. I haven't diminished other religions, that's already been done for me.

It's often useful even necessary to conflate disparate and contradictory traditions for the purposes of talking about more than one small thing at once but it's definitely worth being mindful of what you're doing and that its p weird to conflate all the strands of any religion when you think about it

if you're going to take the time to actively slag off on a religion, or anything else really, it's good to at least know what you're talking about

Yes but the bar of "knowing what you're talking about" is set by religious people. I have zero interest in the intricacies of their silly beliefs. I don't need to know every little detail of juggaloism to form an opinion of it and mock it.

I mean you had me at "I'm positive their is/are supernatural being(s) that created the universe". It usually gets sillier and more bizarre from there, but I find the starting point worthy of being dismissed

*there

And mind you your point is the exact same one made by gun nuts

Find myself tapping the sign


I tried to flag one of silby’s posts but got an error message saying “where’s the lie tho”

― Garu you just posted flange (wins), Monday, 9 March 2020 08:39 (four months ago) bookmarkflaglink

Theres all sorts of fine distinctions within categories like "atheist" and "gentile" that will inevitably escape the ppl that use them but they're still useful, as ever the key q is what are the differences that make a difference

xp: Bearded guy on a throne goes back to Zoroastrian depictions of Ahura Mazda.
https://www.crystalinks.com/ZHoldingSunDisc.jpg

If anything, the Islamic prohibitions on depicting the divine are far more conducive to belief in modern life. Bearded guy is just fodder for Pythonesque mockery.

I don't need to know every little detail of juggaloism to form an opinion of it and mock it.

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, August 2, 2020 4:48 PM (twenty-two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

This would be a grave mistake, as juggalos are generally extremely dope and right about things.

Zeus was also a supreme male god who was often depicted as bearded and enthroned.

I'm not unfolding 2200 posts but I'm just going to say silby probably otm.

Everything was fine until we stopped worshipping the Löwenmensch figurine and the Venus of Willendorf.

In truth, if you were to unfold those 2200 posts and read them, mixed in among the zings and mutual incomprehension you'd find some very interesting and competent discussion of a subject that is rarely approached in that spirit.

I still worship Willendorf girl. Well no, but I do have the replica keychain.

This would be a grave mistake, as juggalos are generally extremely dope and right about things.

― There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit)

one might even say they are... 2 dope

https://i.ibb.co/Lp8r1Nw/FB-IMG-1607113210785.jpg

Thoughts? A friend I respect posted this but while I'm usually down with criticizing toxic masculinity, this feels more like "my atheism is more pure than your atheism", which doesn't make me feel comfortable.

I also don't know how much of atheism is one fluid conscious choice. I didn't leave the faith in one pronounced moment, I drifted over time and realized that I wasn't going to church, and despite me calling myself agnostic, that I actually felt confident that there was nothing out there. It wasn't a solid moment in time and my sentiment against religion became less passive the more toxic Christianity became in this country.

I'm probably overthinking it, though.

any attempt to generalise by race is doomed

These seem like extremely lazy generalizations to me.

There is a subcategory of 'euphoric', Dawkins-toting, Mountain Dew-drinking atheist neckbeards who definitely fit the bill, but these kinds of generalizations aren't exactly helpful, are they.

"don't have spoons"?

Is it a reference to this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoon_theory

Thanks.

wonder when Tumblr discourse will die. possibly never

I don’t know where that tumblr post is supposed to lead. Okay, it’s different?

I didn’t lose any faith, didn’t break from any kind of religion so ‘my atheism’ is different from anyone who did, regardless of ethnicity/gender/etc., right? So what am I supposed to do with that? (I mostly just don’t ever think about god, gods or atheism.)

If a group of non-believers got to that point because they were being more overtly oppressed by the hypocrisies and belief discrepancies in the bible, in the end all atheists are non-believers. There really isn't any value in dunking on r/atheist caricatures when what we all have in common is a rejection of the idea of deities/spirits. Those discrepancies in the teachings of any specific religion are covered within that common rejection despite anyone's personal experiences with them.

i'd say there really isn't any value in recognizing that all non-believers can tick a categorical when social reality is structured by shades of domination, but then i'd be doing a pale imitation of, say, noodle vague who is always so rich on these kinds of topics and much better than i am at countering silly hogwash while also being charitable.

this feels more like "my atheism is more pure than your atheism", which doesn't make me feel comfortable

you could try starting a hashtag #notallcishetwhitemaleatheists, but somehow I don't think it would sit well.

it's probably simplest to try to quiet your discomfort by telling yourself the chance is quite high that they will simply do that 'human thing' of holding two contradictory ideas at the same time, and what is absolutely true for them in one frame of mind will be replaced by a different, more flexible, truth at other times.