further education in britain. questions...

no. no. no. no. no. hmm. hmm. no.

I think you missed a yes there near the end Alan (with regard to the decline of manufacturing and apprenticeship - though as a mathematician I would question the use of exponential in this context).

"inevitability" + "exponential" = "hmm".

Can I take it that you mean higher and not further education? If so: no, maybe, no, no, no, no, yes, no.

damn, i meant higher education, not further

Americanizing of education needs clarification. I'd say no in that most students in Britain still study one or two subjects, with a few exceptions such as the foundation year at Keele Uni. As far as I know there are no British unis where you major in a subject but study all sorts of others all through your course. But Americanizing in terms of finance I'd say yes. It is now almost impossible for most people to avoid having a job whilst they study to pay their way. OK I know it hasn't been completely Americanized in that tuition fees are means tested and some people pay no tuition fees at all, but there has been a drift in this direction ever since grants replaced loans in the early 90s. Question is, would it have been impossible to maintain a grant system in the face of the increases in student numbers?

probably, because we (the taxpayer) are unwilling to pay for it. it is as though we leave school at 21 not 16/18 now, but that it costs more.

Mark H -- in every uni in the Scottish system you take three different subjects for two years, and then specialise for the last two years. Others such as Sussex (the only Eng uni I am particularly familiar) certainly make you take outside subjects to broaden your range of study, including widely-loathed (was the impression I got) school courses, ie. my gormless economics-studying housemate complaining about having to study Kuhn and Popper.

I'd say making university more 'normal' leads to people not thinking carefully about what is after all a major life change. As for Americanizing: I'm not sure. I don't quite understand the US system. But I do know that when we were trialing a US programme for new admissions at UCLAN they had a section all about VIETNAM EXPERIENCES k-blimey-o whot's that all about eh? I remember finding out that to get some funding for uni that my friends son had to ENROL IN THE ARMY in order to get it. And that's fcuked up. Arts subjects defintely don't seem a luxury, in fact there are too many of the buggers doing it for MY LIKING grrr.

And no, it's nothing like national service, you mentalist.

1.) Yes

2.) Yes

3.) Yes, deleteriously.

4.) Yes, tragically.

5.) Yes

6.) I fear so, as is literature.

7.) If it wasn't for every government since 1959 it wouldn't have to be so.

8.) I wish it was, but unfortunately the values it infers are far less positive. We should resuscitate our culture once more before shooting it as a punishment for letting it down so badly.

1.) No, it's done us a lot of good over time.

2.) No, not at all.

3.) Not as much as some think, and if we have it's been in a good way.

4.) No harm if it is (and I say that as someone who hasn't been!)

5.) No.

6.) Not to my knowledge.

7.) Yes. Would probably be so even without Mrs T.

8.) No, not at all.