Arguing with your partner / spouse - what's normal?

I think fist-fights can be part of a mature and loving relationship.

depends if you agree a "safe word" first.

With my girlfriends, we tend to argue about silly things, like whether she should put the gun down.

My beloved and I do not argue much, but maybe we also avoid subjects that could cause disagreements, thus building up festering resentments that will one day explode into extreme violence.

We had a dumb argument in the garden the other night and I ended up drop kicking a pot plant, tub and all, right over the back fence. Definitely not cool. Neither was climbing over the fence to sheepishly retrieve the remains once darkness had fallen. We rarely really argue though and it's normally other factors that cause it (mostly goddamn GODDAMN tiredness).

it's so specific to the couple but i think either can be normal. not arguing is good in an obvious way, but arguing can sometimes mean feeling honest and comfortable. also there's the cliche of where there's friction there's passion or whatever. can be true.

we argued a lot when we were younger but now its reduced to an occasional shorthand of grunts and withering looks when one or both of us are inconsiderate.
we're also much quicker to make up now,ie we don't stew for days as we might have done 10 years ago.

(Nick, answering your question, normal is whatever you're both cool with)

Surmounter OTM, it depends on the couple. I've been in a long-term, live-in relationship that was almost completely argument-free but terribly unhappy. My current, very happy live-in relationship features minor arguments approximately bi-weekly and an actual FIGHT I'd say once a month.

i've been in the long-term-relationship-with-no-arguments-and-miserable situation, and i've been in the long-term-relationship-with-no-arguments-and-happy situation, so not much useful advice there.

short term relationships tend to be short term because of arguments IMO, but i definitely wouldn't be worrying about not having any arguments- what's the alternative- arguing because you 'should' be?

No arguments is only a problem if you're unhappy in the relationship, as others have pointed out. Otherwise WAU AWESOME.

My beloved and I do not argue much, but maybe we also avoid subjects that could cause disagreements, thus building up festering resentments that will one day explode into extreme violence.

-- The Real Dirty Vicar, Thursday, July 10, 2008 12:15 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link

^^^this

My current, very happy live-in relationship features minor arguments approximately bi-weekly and an actual FIGHT I'd say once a month.

ya!

I've been together with my wife for 19 years, and we have just little snipey disagremeents every once in a while. We used to have occasional MAJOR blowout screaming and crying fights, but we've moved ourselves to a position in life where a lot of other stresses, which is what we were really sublimating in those fights, are now gone. Can't remember the last time we had one of those.

live-in relationship

i hate this phrase. it sounds like a real estate term or something.

"1 live-in rltnsp - Needs work - great deal, cozy, w2w sexing"

Mrs Trifle and I argue every single day and have done for the past 22 years. We've never had a problem with it but friends often comment and so do our children, so we have tried to tone it down a bit. But she's so fucking irritating.

The big dramatic screaming rows dropped off years ago. It's just little niggly things these days. But we do constantly take the piss out of each other, with merciless mutual glee.

I do know one couple who never argue about anything, ever. They know it's a bit weird, but they're blissful anyway.

I'm not big on fights, I don't easily lose my temper or raise my voice, and I feel like if you do that too often over small things it just trivializes when there actually is something serious to argue about. Plus everyone in my immediate family has a terrible temper, so I'm sure I could too if I indulged it (not to say I 'bottle it up,' but I don't think letting it loose all the time is any better). My wife favors the silent treatment and avoiding me when she's mad, which used to drive me nuts, until I realized that the alternative was her being really nasty and mean, so now I tend to just leave her alone or try to defuse the situation, instead of escalating it. But in a way I think it's lucky that we've never had something super serious to fight about, and that usually it's about a mistake or problem of my doing, so ultimately it's best for me to lay low and be apologetic, which is the path of least resistance. I don't really know how it would go down if we really disagreed about something big, because she's really strong-willed and I'm not sure I'd 'win' even if I was right.

Yeah, the only way I ever 'win' a fight with my wife is a couple of days later she'll recast the argument in the context of whatever emotional shit was going on, thus not quite admitting I was right, but admitting that the shit she started the fight over was kinda bullshit. During the fight tho? She's got so many more rhetorical weapons than I do.

I think my rhetoric and debating skills are pretty on point, they're just a lot more useful in some trivial argument about music with someone I'm not afraid to be a dick to than in a marital dispute about some real life shit. Even when I have a good point sometimes I just know I have to hold it back because it would come off as smarmy oneupsmanship.

the last two posts are pretty close to my situation

the amazing thing about fights is how the topic of contention seems to shift and slip around almost immediately - it's like a mutating virus

the lovely emma b tends to realize the moment it becomes totally unproductive and then just shuts off, preferring to let it keep for later, which drives me up the wall cause i want to, you know, FIGURE IT ALL OUT RIGHT NOW but once things have gotten to a certain point it just becomes impossible and you have to let it cool off, which i'm slowly learning how to do, but it's hard

the last time i was home i noticed - for the first time in my life - what a hair-trigger temper my father has. it seems to come from nowhere, and is pretty alarming, it's like WHOA. i've been interrogating myself for signs of this. unsurprisingly, with my dad it's much more pronounced if he's had a stiff drink or two, which is pretty much every night.

Thanks, everybody, for talking about fighting with your wives! You are totally furthering my dreams of someday being a real pain the ass (less likely in my relationships than you'd think!).

in the past i've slapped my boyfriend. but he knows it's only my childish attempt at impersonating old-school movie actresses in distress, and doesn't hate me for it. he's only slapped me once, when i was hysterical, going for the slap-the-crazy-woman bit. it kind of worked.

I think my rhetoric and debating skills are pretty on point, they're just a lot more useful in some trivial argument about music with someone I'm not afraid to be a dick to than in a marital dispute about some real life shit. Even when I have a good point sometimes I just know I have to hold it back because it would come off as smarmy oneupsmanship.

-- some dude, Thursday, July 10, 2008 10:42 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Link

^^^^^ on green like onions

man it suxx to know you're right but you can't say it

yeah a lot of times it makes you out to be some ruthless competitor who must always assert rightness

Me and my wife never fight. We occasionally disagree, but these disagreements never escalate even to the level of raised voices. And the best part, my wife totally forgets about any disagreement exactly 5 minutes after it's over.

RS doesn't fight. He just kind of sits there and very rationally talks through disagreements which of course drives me crazy. Ha. We bicker often (over silly stuff that's forgotten as soon thereafter) but rarely fight.

Ha - LC. I think we kind of just said the same thing.

Has Sunny posted here yet, or is she still on the 'I Want Another iPhone' thread?

I did grow up in a house where there was lots and lots and lots of fighting. No real physical violence except for my dad putting his fist thru everything from walls to dressers. This very much shaped my attitude about fighting: The damage a big fight does to a relationship is irreversible, I believe. Even if you make up and whatnot, yr future interactions are forever shaped by the expectations past fights have burned in yr psyche.

Some couples fight a lot, others don't ... how you both feel about the way you're handling conflict is probably more important than the amount of ruckus you raise in the process.

After the fight or non-fight is over, do you generally both feel like you understand them and they understand you? Are you both able to acknowledge and apologize for causing problems? Are you both able to let things go after a while, even when you know you are right and they are wrong?

If you both feel like you're communicating openly, getting problems solved, and enjoying being together, it probably doesn't matter whether you sit around smiling blissfully at each other all the time or scream yourselves raw on a regular basis.

So this is how im going to get my iphone (xxp)

"Another"? Wait, you mean she already has one?

The damage a big fight does to a relationship is irreversible, I believe.

yup

I think fist-fights fucks can be part of a mature and loving relationship.

There are no real rules when it comes to relationships. It's not a science. Some couples fight, some don't. Since I grew up in a household which didn't avoid arguments, I don't see it as a necessarily bad thing but I'm sure most would balk at the idea of a (verbal) fight. That said, when it gets extremely nasty, I tend to walk out. Why? Because at some point you're just running in circles and you won't kiss'n'make up. Then it's time to walk away and cool the fuck down. I tend to realize I'm being a royal bitch (and sometimes still think I'm right). But y'know one of the key things I have learnt: even if you're right, what the fuck does it matter at the end of the day? I prefer to shut up about it and make up. I'm in it for the long run, not win some petty argument (-> I can be delusional at times).

xpost No, it doesn't. Only if you let it.

But Nick, dude, I'm... I'm not sure if I'm in awe of people who fight very little. Maybe that says more about me than it should. I don't like like fighting but I don't like festering wounds/things, y'know. I can be a bit confrontational. And I prefer to fight it out than letting it linger.

Walking away - not stomping away - is absolutely ESSENTIAL once a fight reaches a certain critical mass. There's a point at which you're not listening to each other and there's nothing to be gained from continuing to speak, you need that space on your own to calm the fuck down and re-focus on the bigger picture.

can we get that on the FAQ

and backdate it to, like, 1998

i never fought with my last bf. And it wasnt passiveness or stewing - we just got on wonderfully, liked and agreed with each other on a lot of things, and were quiet and calm people who bounced off each other well.

Which is why I dont understand why my current bf, who is also quiet (though in a more passive, do-nothing, inert way), can get me so frustrated sometimes. I'm in the "its not him its me" frame of mind about it, I think I'm under a lot of stress and have somelingering issews to work out in me head.

We never fight either though. I just get upset occasionally, gripe at him, and blubber, and he calms me down. Poor bastard :/

Noodle otm, with one important addition, if you are the one to walk away and your spouse insists it would be better to keep going to a resolution, then you must say when you will be willing to resume the discussion again, more calmly. This allows it not devolve into a power play.

Yeah I know there's all sorts of nuances around the whole thing. I'm the one who wants to keep thrashing away cos I think I can resolve the situation whereas Mrs V tends to get all "I want to stop talking about this right now" and then I get incredibly frustrated/angry cos I'm in mid-argue, but I've realised that calmly (as possible) saying "we need a breather here" and stepping outside has prevented a lot of unnecessary extra wrong turns.

I dont mean to cast aspersions on anyone here but I honestly couldnt bear to be in a relationship full of arguments. It would kill me, and I'd totally lose my feelings for the person, to be honest. Ive had friends who just endlessly snapped at each other over the most pathetic things, and I didnt understand why they were even together.

Never underestimate the magical possibilities of hormones and alcohol.

Hah, I know what both do to my own temper, so I'm with ya on that one ;/

our biggest argument (seriously) involves bunting in baseball, specifically whether one should expect a major league ballplayer to be capable of it. we try to avoid this issue now.

We probably argue about every two to three weeks. Sometimes more. We both like being right and we both have quite short tempers and pedantic and dramatic tendencies. Bad combination for peacefulness. We're quite similar, which is why we argue so much, but also why we get on so well. I've always been of the flare-up-and-cool down school - I don't really understand festering resentment types - it confuses me more than anything else. That said, I think we'd fight less if we had a bigger house.

Really really stupid shit we've argued about:

Britain in the 1980s: did the north or the south have a worse time of it? (I blame Andrew Marr for starting that one.)
Radiohead.
Stockholm - is it boring?
Ken Livingstone.

Actually, saying we both like being right is an understatement. We both believe we are obviously right, all the time, because that’s just how the world works. We are what happens when solipsists date. In most moods we can laugh at ourselves and each other though.

That sounds very familiar. Me and lovely Emma B are two of the most stubborn people alive.

ctually, saying we both like being right is an understatement. We both believe we are obviously right, all the time, because that’s just how the world works.

My friend Allison has a button made for her in high school by a friend, which says "WHY DON'T THEY ALL REALIZE THAT I'M RIGHT?" It is still true today. (And she usually is.)

also, not seeing laurel = me not getting my way *frowny emoticon*

I spent 2 years with a guy who I had a really dysfunctional toxic relationship with. He was an alcoholic, and really emotionally manipulative. I was only 20 so I had no idea how to counter it well, so I would spend time thinking on "pros and cons" trying to convince myself that the bad times were ok because the good times were awesome.

This worked until the balance shifted very hard in favour of the bad times. At that point I realised I had to concede defeat and gtfo for my own sanity (and possibly safety). It is really not an easy thing to do, and you have all my understanding, L.

one thing to be careful of ime: when the fighting and horrible times get really bad, the 'good' times (i.e. what should really just be considered normal-happy-times) start to seem ecstatically awesome, bc they're such a relief. so then you can convince yourself that you have this 'amazing' relationship outside of all those awful fights.

that is v, v otm

*nods* yeah. :/

I actually wrote a poem once about the calm moments in a violent relationship and how we cling to that. I wont LJ you all by posting it here tho, heh.

If you wanted to share it I think we would be cool with it, Trayce (well, I would, anyway)...I mean, frakkin *Jewel* published a whole book of her poems, so...

Well ok, um, its online anyway, and I'm pretty happy with it.

Horse latitudes, n; Belts of northern and southern latitudes lying between the region of westerly winds and the region of the trade winds, marked by baffling light winds and occasional calms. (Macquarie Dictionary)

We are caught here
Between violence and violence.
This is the place of quiescence.
Can you feel the rare calm,
The air on your face?
Take a breath in the stillness.
It is necessary breath,
Oxygen to prepare for the fight.
I knot my fists without knowing.
I have four half-moons
On each palm.
Fortune tellers love me.
Feel it, this vase, those books;
Fill your memory with furniture.
I hold heavy things, immovables;
Remind myself with weight.
I must remember this still place,
In the absence of maps.

I was really into Sexton and Plath when I wrote it so keep that in mind haha.

that's really nice

Thanks :)

Yeah, Trayce...that's pretty great. "Fill your memory with furniture." I like that.

Thread now officially elevated. Pomes!

It was one of those rare times I spew out a poem and it works well, haha. Wish it still happened. I love the "four half moons on my palms/fortune tellers love me" lines.

But yeah to get back to the topic the idea was that we hang onto the basics surrounding us; our furniture, our routines, our familiarities, to keep us sane in the face of tumult.

Yeah, and when you lose those things, coping with challenges becomes incredibly difficult.

Good thread, but the poem.

Well, I'm sorry! I never claimed to be some kind of great poet.

I've been married for 26 years now. Here's how it has been with us. We are mainly very compatible. For the first few years of courtship, we had many strong disagreements, but made adjustments and decided to marry. For several years after our marriage, we rarely fought and basically submerged any minor disagreements.

After our daughter was born (see the thread:Aimless! This is your life!) the tendency to submerge disagreements became more critical, as we needed one another too much to allow irritants to interfere.

After a number of years of crisis, and its eventual subsidance, those irritants and disagreements we had submerged began to re-emerge with new vitality. We worked out (painfully) as many as we could, until we finally had arrived at a set of indissoluable clashes; basic things we just had no way to resolve.

At that point we had to determine if we could live with those irritants for the rest of our lives, knowing they would never go away. We decided to stay together. The upside of staying together was far greater than the downside. That residue of minor problems we cannot resolve still drives us up a wall sometimes, but we understand our position, and we let it go as soon as we can.

It works. For us. YMMV.

Aimless, thats a genuine sense of relationship maturity I dont see all that often in people (especially younger people). Everyone's too ready to cut and run when things go to shit, these days. I have so much admiration for you and your family.

People do the best they know how. It helps to have good models to pattern after. My parents and her parents were pretty good models -- not perfect by any means, but pretty good.

Em's starting a new job on Monday and various things about her last job and general state of mind have made her very anxious about it; "what if I can't do this new job?" questions. (She can; she's brilliant.)

Anyway, these anxieties spilled over on Tuesday night into high drama about baking cookies to take in on her last day (Weds). Voices were raised, I yelled, she raised her hands as if to grab my wrists, I stormed out and got it in the car. & drove to sainsburys & bought new eggs & chocolate & came back & talked her down out of bed & we made the cookies together & it was great.

I don't really do arguing. Except about silly things like records & films on the internet. We disagree sometimes but mostly we've grown together so much over 9 years that we either agree on most things or else know how to sort it out amicably now. We separated for 6 months about 6/7 years ago, but now we're married, so you know.

When I was talking Em down to bake on Tuesday she said "I don't get to have you be nice to me after I was nasty to you" and I told her she did because we were adults & married. And because I really wanted a fucking cookie after all that fuss.

I know the baking cookies episode was prob rly unpleasant to be in, but in retelling it has a certain climatic appeal. I guess that's only cos it ended well, though.

THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO SAY CINEMATIC. Fucking phone thinks it knows better than I do.

Maybe Nick *really* likes cookies? Lol

I'd totally forgotten that I'd started this thread!

Em doesn't like me listening to The Beatles.

;_;

Don't tell Whiney

reminder to oneself: dont get drunk at a three year olds birthday party and accuse your wife of giving her boss a bj.

yeah, that's worth an iCal reminder at the very least

Oh dude...

thats called i ate nothing all day and pounded beer all afternoon.

Once/if you have kids, the entire dynamic of arguments shifts, and is also exacerbated by new stress: lack of sleep, lack of money, lack of time, lack of space, lack of privacy, etc. Fighting/conflict is inevitable, but as long as you keep it to a minimum in public, where potential humiliation/resentment is amplified, things tend to work themselves out at home. You just need to take a break once in a while to see a movie or something on your own, and also to realize how petty/insignificant 99% of arguments actually are. I'd suggest if the same argument keeps occurring, with increased frequency and/or anger, then that does imply significance, or at least something that can't be swept under the rug and therefore must be confronted, ideally under neutral circumstances. But again, once you have kids, once some other (innocent) person's well-being is at stake, a little bit of perspective goes a long way.

thats called i ate nothing all day and pounded beer all afternoon.

That's called "Sunday" at my house. Well, I'm exaggerating. But it used to happen when he started drinking and thinking about going back to work at a place where they treat him horribly, because we need the paycheck.

We drink less now. Also he might get a new job soon.

that used to happen with us too as i drank wednesday through sunday when i was in a miserable job. then i got laid off. now i barely drink.

And because I really wanted a fucking cookie after all that fuss.

fantastic closing sentence -- I lol'd

I actually used some of what's been talked about on this thread to take a potential argument and turn it into a conversation. My husband has a long-standing friend, and whenever we go to a concert or an event together, she and he do all this planning without me...and then she sends emails asking about things they've already planned and I reply and end up looking like a moron bc my husband hasn't told me what's up.

Whatever. So that all happened last week because of a concert we were going to together (and with a bunch of other people) to this weekend. and he and I went out for dinner on Fridat

Ugh. Stupid phone.

So he and I were at dinner Friday night and I brought up what I thought the plan was for Saturday, and he says no, something else entirely new. And I started to escalate, to the point where it's stony silence with me looking off, trying not to cry. Then I thought, fuck it, just tell him why this upsets you. Talk, don't shut it down.

And we talked. I told him I'm not a planning junkie, I just like to know what's going on if we are going somewhere, bc it makes me nervous if I feel like were winging it. And its not a trust thing. And he told me that she gets out of control with planning and he works on her constantly to get her to not spin her wheels, and to keep things simple. And if she does email about stuff, it's never definite and it's easier if he has the job of "working her". She is kind of nuts so this made perfect sense to me.

And more importantly, we had a nice evening!

Sorry for all the boring minutiae, just wanted to share a good thing ;)

That is a good thing :D I'd be frustrated too if my other half was planning stuff with someone else and not keeping me in the loop on it!

.

v. cool -- you are all grown up!

the main thing, for me i guess, is to not become solipsistic. sometimes i get my brain into situations where i'm stuck thinking only of my (very narrowest) self. i feel like i'm pretty rational and pretty reasonable -- i don't yell and curse and whatever -- but sometimes i lose sight of the larger picture whilst stuck in my own preoccupations, which may or may not be relevant.

and, um, i am familiar with drinking a great deal (eg right now), but it has never occurred to me to accuse anyone of blowing their boss?

I'm also familiar with drinking a great deal, enough so that I don't need an explanation for the crazy shit that comes out of people's mouths when they're drunk enough to end up in a weird place emotionally. I understand it.

nah, she is constantly travelling for work which leaves me questioning things...as she always travels with her boss. I've had trust issues most of my life and when i drink they tend to come out. Needless to say, i can trust her fully but i go off on rants.

My husband gets pretty loose when he's drunk...though our run ins over that are usually just me getting him to stop (I have this thing where I can't drink when other people are already drunk, I sort of feel like I have to make sure nothing happens...maybe comes from being a Duty Resident in college wrangling drunk freshmen I guess)...most memorable time was at his 40th when he told his elderly Aunt to go fuck herself. Lesson we learned is: frozen margarita machines seem like a good idea; actually a really, really baaaaaaad idea.

Man, what is it with this shit? When I get drunk I just want to dance and make out.

I know right? Me too! Actually my husband mostly usually wants to just listen to speed metal really loud or play Rock Band, then fall asleep on the couch, so more often than not he's pretty manageable, haha.

usually all i wanna do is play video games and listen to music. sometimes i just get crazy.

Maybe try dancing and making out next time? lol

i may.

pro tip: dance and/or make out with wife

Had an argument with my girlfriend yesterday, then she told me she wanted to fight with me on purpose and that she was kind of trying to provoke me into getting angry with her. I know some people like to fight but actually admitting that she was egging me on pissed me off a bit, especially as she knew I'd had a particularly busy day at work and I had a thumping headache. Now I don't know if I'm over-reacting. I'm the type of person who blames myself for things that aren't my fault. I'm also a bit worried that other arguments we've had have been constructed by her because she seems to get a kick out of it, which is pretty annoying because she's always going on about how we should make the most of the time we have together.