Does It Exist: Quality Righty Humor?

I suppose PJ O'Rourke might qualify, at least in terms of his books.

"don't forget about me, babe!"

http://www.albertcompany.com/images/Dennis%20Miller.jpg

PJ hasn't been all that funny in, um, a decade or two.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/34/Evelyn-waughportrait.jpg

http://www.daybydaycartoon.com/

FEEL THE FEAR

chris morris

See, Day By Day is a prime example of cons trying way too hard and missing the mark by a country mile.

http://moviegoings.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/expelledposter.jpg

haha, yeah, hence 'feel the fear'

Still, it's not really any worse than Prickly City or Mallard Fillmore. Which is to say - worse than cancer, not as bad as genocide.

I'm willing to give Ben Stein the benefit of the doubt, since I haven't seen his flick. But Dennis Miller has been SERIOUSLY flagging for about 2 decades. I mean, he wasn't that great on SNL either, and he's gotten no better.

Ben Stein deserves no benefits (and it's not a comedy).

i despise dennis miller. i can't believe he gets to walk around alive and george carlin has to die.

i have no idea what that movie is. the poster is funny though!

I read every book of PJ O'Rourke's at age 14 (at which point I basically read everything in the dewey decimal section 818.54 aka "humor"). He was no Patrick McManus but a nice enough break between Dave Barry books, which can be overwhelming all in one go. PJ's were interesting to me mainly bcz I had no idea what he was talking about most of the time. "Does anyone actually know who this Gennifer Flowers person is? Did he make her up?"

chris morris

-- Frogman Henry, Sunday, July 13, 2008 9:26 PM

How so?

Part of it has to do with power, and with the writer's relationship to power. Mocking the powerful is satire; mocking the powerless is bullying. See Stephen Colbert interviewed out of character and he will occasionally get into this along with the mechanics of comedy, and comic theory.

OK, you might think his choice of targets make him twattish, but I can't see how "not being a very nice person" = right wing.

Part of it has to do with power, and with the writer's relationship to power. Mocking the powerful is satire; mocking the powerless is bullying. See Stephen Colbert interviewed out of character and he will occasionally get into this along with the mechanics of comedy, and comic theory.

I'll buy this, but many conservatives at least say that they're standing up for the common guy against the big, evil, powerful government. Hence, it stands to reason that conservative humor ought mock the state, yes? However, that sort of humor, done well at least, would risk exposing that "conservative" hypocrisy for what it is: Conservatives cannot mock the largest state institution, the armed forces, naturally, so what's left? Affirmative action? Ridiculing affirmative action without descending into obvious racist jokes would be extremely difficult, if not impossible. Abortion is out, at least on these grounds, since that's clearly the government interfering with the lives of relatively powerless individuals. Immigration? Again, conservatism is on the big-gov't side of this one. Perhaps school prayer is fair game, but that topic's gonna be about as funny as a sermon.

I mean, my thinking is this: If even Ben Stein can't make a rip-roaring, side-splitting case against the 800-lb bad-boy-on-the-block gorilla of science, then there just ain't much hope for rightie funnies.

South Park - not conservative per se, but certainly not lefty. And fucking funny.

Morris' world view seems more nihilistic than anything else.

Conservatives cannot mock the largest state institution, the armed forces, naturally, so what's left?

there are plenty of targets that are state-based and are not the armed forces.

ie bureaucracy

south park is kinda libertarian. like george carlin or sarah silverman. mocking PC stuff and the left and the right and everybody. i gotta admit, i'm fond of this sort of thing. kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out. but i grew up on mad magazine and national lampoon and the nothing is sacred/everything is fair game school. the simpsons are a part of that too.

the simpsons are a part of that too

pretty left-leaning, surely?

The Simpsons is fairly culturally conservative at its heart (whenever a family member tries out a wacky subculture it rarely works out for them).

But politically left-leaning, yes.

pretty left-leaning, surely?

Depends who you ask. Their most prolific writer, John Swartzwelder, is pretty conservative, and if you listen to the commentaries (in which he does not participate), they make that pretty clear. His episodes tend to reflect that as well.

And they certainly have taken their shots at Democrats over the years. Their depictions of Clinton, as opposed to their depiction of George H.W. Bush, was practically slanderous. Plus my favorite Sideshow Bob quote: "You can't keep the Democrats out of office forever! And when they win, me and all my criminal buddies will be back on the streets!"

Matt Groening is definitely very liberal, but I don't know that the show itself is.

The Simpsons is fairly culturally conservative at its heart (whenever a family member tries out a wacky subculture it rarely works out for them).

-- chap, Monday, July 14, 2008 4:13 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

explain??

It fetishises the suburban family lifestyle. It takes plenty of pops at it, of course, but generally affectionate ones.

Pancakes' point is a good one though, a show with such a long history and so many writers can't help but be a little politically schizophrenic.

It's not autered to the extent of South Park, say.

south park has waaaay more of an agenda than simpsons tho

its sort of a pet peeve of mine that south park has a reputation as being an 'equal opportunity offender' when its mostly just libertarian

i've always felt that south park and the simpsons were two of the most pro-christian shows on t.v.

they are all about morality.

ya i would hardly call simpsons right wing for being about an american family, especially sucha dysfunctional one. which is not suburban btw.

i've always felt that south park and the simpsons were two of the most pro-christian shows on t.v.

they are all about morality.

-- scott seward, Monday, July 14, 2008 4:23 PM (19 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

all tv is

yeah, i guess. i just can't think of that many other shows, comedy or otherwise, that spend so much time in church or talking about godly matters.

think it's just kind of insane to be like the simpsons is kinda right wing because it's about a family and the show seems to value that family's integrity

I didn't say it was right-wing, I said it was (generally) culturally conservative.

not really sure i buy it

what would you consider a culturally liberal tv show? a show about a family of punks and goths?

how does the simpsons "fetishize the suburban family lifestyle"? i mean did married with children or roseanne or the cosby show do that?

The Cosby Show fetishized the urban family lifestyle.

lols aside, "Friends" and "Seinfeld" were pretty un-family-oriented, so if being family oriented makes a show culturally conservative, I'd call the two former shows culturally liberal.

sorry that type of reasoning is too sophisticated for me.

Culturally liberal but has family living in suburbs DOES NOT COMPUTE:

http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/dvd/sony/maude/Maude2lrg._V12312312_.jpg

yeah I mean that the Simpsons, as compared to, say, Friends, is heavily family-focused. So if being family focused is culturally conservative, Friends may be a good example of being culturally liberal.

Friends is also a good example of culturally suck

"You can't keep the Democrats out of office forever! And when they win, me and all my criminal buddies will be back on the streets!"

- that's a joke on hysterical right-wingers' opinions of Democrats, no??

The Simpsons is a pretty conservative show and it's kinda funny... it's weird, though, in the newer episodes they make fun of the homeless, the poor, the working class, and not in a tongue-in-cheek way, either. It's a little jarring that such a great show now features jokes Rush Limbaugh would shy away from telling.

I dunno I always take those kinds of jokes as being ironic on the Simpsons, perhaps wrongly

The joke you posted was tongue in cheek, Poo. The new ones aren't like that ... they're straight as an arrow.

Exactly like "Family Guy"

No "Ladies and gentlemen, Mrs Burt Stanton" jokes to be made for a while then :(

Frasier? is that 'righty' humour?

There is nothing inherently conservative about the family as a social unit whatever the Right would like us to think, ffs.

well no but the conservatism comes from family social unit being portrayed and upheld as an (if not THE) ideal, don' it?

'things staying the same' is a big tenet of conservatism, a little bird told me

74 posts and nobody has mentioned Jeremy Clarkson.

i was gonna, but his humour isn't quality enough

the conservatism comes from family social unit being portrayed and upheld as an (if not THE) ideal

Still not convinced, I think the Right has co-opted the family as sacred social unit, I'm not convinced that portraying at as an (or even the) ideal is inherently right wing. The family is as difficult to put on a left-right axis as the idea of community, which both sides claim the other is destroying.

http://www.j-archive.com/media/2005-07-04_J_28.jpg

Worst lolcat ever.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/biondino/lolcat.jpg

I'm not convinced that portraying at as an (or even the) ideal is inherently right wing. The family is as difficult to put on a left-right axis as the idea of community, which both sides claim the other is destroying.

i don't think i was suggesting the family ideal/concept was inherently right-wing, just that there's a conservative context and attitude behind the examples the point was relating to

Family = tradition = the core that keeps society stable. That's why you have all those right wing think tanks called "Focus on the Family", "Family Research Council", etc. Plus, making gay marriage illegal and murdering thems homos and abortionists is called "family values". It was like that in the Victorian, too.

So, having the family as the ideal social unit is inherently conservative, I think. I mean, not right wing nutzoid conservative, but conservative in a general sense.

Anyway, the Carry On series to thread.

So, having the family as the ideal social unit is inherently conservative, I think

nope, many inherently conservative groups would claim it but it doesn't make the concept necessarily so.

It does make the concept necessarily so. It's rooted firmly in the Victorian tradition.

and yes, the Ivy League English majors who write these shows are aware of that fact, I'm sure.

i'm just having difficulty separating "right-wing humour" and things that right-wingers would find funny, which could be anything.

having a family in a sitcom != 'right wing humour'.

We're not arguing the existence of family in a show, but the traditional nuclear family unit as being the ideal and natural form of society. That concept is definitely conservative, and is present in shows like the Simpsons, etc. On the surface you could argue it's just basic sitcom format, but the content and dialogue are very much "family is ideal for society", "heterosexual Christian marriage is the highest form of love", etc. etc.

so how is a traditional (co-habiting husband and wife with 3 kids) family unit 'ideal'? other than in terms of jokescope, as evident in mainstream culture since it began

Anyway, it's stupid to argue this crap. Pop culture criticism is so 1990s.

Promoting the mainstream as ideal -is- conservative. That's the very nature of cultural conservatism.

It does make the concept necessarily so. It's rooted firmly in the Victorian tradition.

-- burt_stanton, 15 July 2008 15:17 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

having any concept of an 'ideal family unit' is strange enough, maybe.

On the surface you could argue it's just basic sitcom format

that's exactly what I am arguing.

but the content and dialogue are very much "family is ideal for society", "heterosexual Christian marriage is the highest form of love", etc. etc

am really unconvinced of this. the simpsons are being sold to us as the ideal family unit? or the flanders?

The newer episodes of the Simpsons mostly ... I only caught one or two, and they were beyond dreadful. The older, good episodes lampoon the mainstream with irony and tongue in cheek humor.

do they still go to church?

stopped watching it years ago, so we're probably arguing different cases.

xpost- church-going in the simpsons was never anything but the object of humour

I don't think that family-centric humor is necessarily political. The Simpsons is culturally conservative in many ways, but I don't think it's politically conservative. I don't think it's terribly politically liberal either. South Park is slightly politically libertarian, but not overtly so. Contrast with, say, George Carlin and Jon Stewart, who have made some very high-quality distinctly humor that is nothing if not politically on the left (although I think Stewart would relish skewering a President Obama).

I guess the point I want to raise is that cultural conservatism isn't necessarily political conservatism.

Guys, within the last 2-3 seasons Homer got ordained via the Internet and made money performing gay marriages.

does he still grab his son by the throat and throttle him when he talks back?

(which was never that funny somehow)

He did it in the Simpsons movie!

What about family-friendly shows like Full House, featuring three single men, in San Francisco no less, taking care of some girls? Or "My Two Dads"? Or that one weird show where their parents died and so the oldest brother dressed in drag, pretending to be their aunt, to keep the fams from being split up in various adoptions?

And I think "Friends" is the last thing I would call "liberal," if only based on its audience.

Some of my best friends have families. I don't think they want to see them split up by the end of the half-hour, or the year. I don't think I do, either.

Families are pretty extant, it's damn true.

Or that one weird show where their parents died and so the oldest brother dressed in drag, pretending to be their aunt, to keep the fams from being split up in various adoptions?

the what now?

It always seemed to me that Homer strangling Bart was a comment on parents who punish heavily for trivial things while the bigger picture i.e. The family unit is not addressed. Conservatives are forever ignoring common sense and the big picture in favour of insignificant shit that doesn't actually matter.

South Park is slightly politically libertarian, but not overtly so.

good lord are you even watching this show? they are sledgehammer obvious with their politics, it makes the show nigh unwatchable sometimes.

I laugh when Just got offed tells racist jokes. You go, girl!

the what now?

actually a good title

Conservatives are forever ignoring common sense and the big picture in favour of insignificant shit that doesn't actually matter.

it's funny cos it's true!

good lord are you even watching this show? they are sledgehammer obvious with their politics, it makes the show nigh unwatchable sometimes.

Hm, maybe not. Does it star a charming Mexican fellow who happens to be really good with dogs?

I love it either way btw.

Righties may enjoy a wider variety of humor than liberals (at last, I know why ILX doesn't think I'm funny).

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/04/science/04tierney.html

Indeed, the conservatives did rate the traditional golf and marriage jokes as significantly funnier than the liberals did. But they also gave higher ratings to the absurdist “Deep Thoughts.” In fact, they enjoyed all kinds of humor more.

“I was surprised,” said Dan Ariely, a psychologist at Duke University, who collaborated on the study with Elisabeth Malin, a student at Mount Holyoke College. “Conservatives are supposed to be more rigid and less sophisticated, but they liked even the more complex humor.”

Do conservatives have more fun? Should liberals start describing themselves as humor-challenged?

Humorless liberals, YA THINK

You are Dr Laughinus now.

Did anyone above mention Penn Jillette per chance?

John McCain was pretty funny as "the creepy husband" in this 2002 SNL skit mentioned here

Where does the Blue Collar Tour fit in to this?

it is not quality

oh gimme a break

The NY Times tries so hard to "balance" itself in the eyes of conservatives by throwing them a bone every now and then. It's like, dude, New York Times, they're just not into you. Stop embarrasing yourself and love the one you're with - tea drinking, NPR listening fruitcakes.