your favorite films of the decade (so far) redux

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I really just wanted to revive this thread:

your favorite films of this decade (so far)

but ILF is a graveyard sometimes. I'm not sure how much interest there is in this topic, but I'm curious what movies are sitting well in people's minds vs. what seemed good at the time and now, not so much...

ryan, Thursday, 24 July 2008 16:09 (seventeen years ago)

but ILF is a graveyard sometimes

Eric H., Thursday, 24 July 2008 16:11 (seventeen years ago)

Actually my list might not have changed that much since that last thread. I've stopped seeing as many films in the last few years.

Eric H., Thursday, 24 July 2008 16:12 (seventeen years ago)

me too...that's actually my motivation..wanting to catch up.

ryan, Thursday, 24 July 2008 16:13 (seventeen years ago)

my old list mostly holds up:

In the Mood for Love
Before Sunset
Spring Summer Fall Winter and Spring
A.I.
25th Hour
Spirited Away
What Time is it There
Hamlet

Not so sure about Hamlet, What Time, or 25th Hour being really THAT good, but i still like them.

I'd probably add:

Zodiac
The New World

ryan, Thursday, 24 July 2008 16:18 (seventeen years ago)

Hmm, apparently I didn't do a list last time. So I'll have to whip one up now.

Eric H., Thursday, 24 July 2008 16:19 (seventeen years ago)

Wasn't there a thread where we listed our favorite films for every year back to 1960 or whatever? The search engine is impossible to find anything with.

Alex in SF, Thursday, 24 July 2008 16:24 (seventeen years ago)

Still Mulholland Dr. for me.

Bubbling under:

I'm Not There
Spirited Away
Into The Wild
The Namesake
The Science Of Sleep
Solaris
Punch-drunk Love
Elephant
City Of God
Donnie Darko
Ghost World

Alba, Thursday, 24 July 2008 16:29 (seventeen years ago)

ILX Top Films of 2000-04 RESULTS (yes, really) is a good aide-mémoire.

Alba, Thursday, 24 July 2008 16:30 (seventeen years ago)

I think there are maybe seven "four-star" films I've seen from this decade. Munich, Eternal Sunshine... etc.

Closest this year: Still Life, The Witnesses, Standard Operating Procedure, Up the Yangtze, My Winnipeg, Profit motive and the whispering wind

Dr Morbius, Thursday, 24 July 2008 16:30 (seventeen years ago)

eternal sunshine of the spotless mind
inland empire
decasia
yi yi
children of men
the squid and the whale
i'm not there
uh

impudent harlot, Thursday, 24 July 2008 16:31 (seventeen years ago)

wet hot american summer

impudent harlot, Thursday, 24 July 2008 16:33 (seventeen years ago)

My Winnipeg

Damn. You've just reminded me about this. It's the last showing tonight in Glasgow and I'm working too late to catch it.

Alba, Thursday, 24 July 2008 16:34 (seventeen years ago)

my issue is that im a doubting thomas on Eternal Sunshine, Mulholland Dr., AND Children of Men. I think i grumbled about them on the appropriate threads. Arguably all three of those will show up on everyone's end of decade lists in a few years.

others I could possibly include on my list:
Catch Me If You Can (prob alone here)
yi yi

want to see I'm Not There again. I thought Far From Heaven was boring.

ryan, Thursday, 24 July 2008 16:35 (seventeen years ago)

I need to see The Witnesses.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 24 July 2008 16:36 (seventeen years ago)

ooh yeah, my winnipeg, absolutely

impudent harlot, Thursday, 24 July 2008 16:36 (seventeen years ago)

finish that sentence Morbius! you said seven and you listed two!

ryan, Thursday, 24 July 2008 16:36 (seventeen years ago)

I don't keep comprehensive lists anymore.

(Far from Heaven, yes, and 2046 and Saddest Music in the World)

Dr Morbius, Thursday, 24 July 2008 16:39 (seventeen years ago)

and Mulholland Dr., maybe Crimson Gold or the Khmer Rouge doc (S21)

Dr Morbius, Thursday, 24 July 2008 16:41 (seventeen years ago)

it is my solemn hope that someday i wont be the only person alive who thinks Adaptation is better than Eternal Sunshine.

ryan, Thursday, 24 July 2008 16:42 (seventeen years ago)

ILX Top Films of 2000-04 RESULTS (yes, really) is a good aide-mémoire.

Haha. Yay, memories.

Eric H., Thursday, 24 July 2008 16:45 (seventeen years ago)

(Far from Heaven, yes, and 2046 and Saddest Music in the World)

All three terrible. ;-)

Eric H., Thursday, 24 July 2008 16:45 (seventeen years ago)

yeah wtf morbs i always trusted your taste!

ryan, Thursday, 24 July 2008 16:46 (seventeen years ago)

Crimson Gold and Mulholland Dr. are both grebt, tho.

Eric H., Thursday, 24 July 2008 16:47 (seventeen years ago)

i have seen Crimson Gold but remember literally nothing about it.

ryan, Thursday, 24 July 2008 16:48 (seventeen years ago)

Couple of things were clear to me as I flipped through my highest rated films on Netflix: 1) most of the best movies of the decade weren't made in the States and 2) the most memorable films were generally the most serious ones.

4 Months, 3 Weeks and 2 Days (Cristian Mungiu)
Battle Royale (Kinji Fukasaki)
Cache (Michael Haneke)
City of God (Katia Lund, Fernando Meirelles)
Dirty Pretty Things (Stephen Frears)
Election (Johnny To)
Head On (Fatih Akin)
Joint Security Area (Chan-wook Park)
Kung Fu Hustle (Stephen Chow)
No Country for Old Men (Ethan Coen)
Read My Lips (Jacques Audiard)
The Blind Swordman: Zatoichi (Takeshi Kitano)
The Child (Jean-Pierre Dardenne, Luc Dardenne)
Volver (Pedro Almodóvar)
Zodiac (David Fincher)

Alex in SF, Thursday, 24 July 2008 16:48 (seventeen years ago)

ah what the hey, i'll big up 4 months, 3 weeks, and 2 days as well. tho i would like to see it again.

xpost got it in before me

impudent harlot, Thursday, 24 July 2008 16:49 (seventeen years ago)

The Edge of Heaven is so far the best movie I've seen this year.

Alex in SF, Thursday, 24 July 2008 16:51 (seventeen years ago)

Wish there was a way to filter Netflix ratings by release date. Hmmph.

Alex in SF, Thursday, 24 July 2008 16:52 (seventeen years ago)

I really just wanted to revive this thread:

your favorite films of this decade (so far)

but ILF is a graveyard sometimes.

That's an ILE thread, not ILF!

Tuomas, Thursday, 24 July 2008 16:53 (seventeen years ago)

well son of a bitch. i guess i was remembering a different thread!

ryan, Thursday, 24 July 2008 16:55 (seventeen years ago)

here it is

The best films of the first 1/3 of the decade

ryan, Thursday, 24 July 2008 16:55 (seventeen years ago)

wow that thread is embarassing.

ryan, Thursday, 24 July 2008 17:01 (seventeen years ago)

There's also this ILE thread:

what are the stone cold classic films of the century so far ?

Tuomas, Thursday, 24 July 2008 17:01 (seventeen years ago)

There's also this thread that we are posting on right now.

Alex in SF, Thursday, 24 July 2008 17:02 (seventeen years ago)

Yeah, but I thought people might want to check what movies they listed earlier this decade.

Tuomas, Thursday, 24 July 2008 17:04 (seventeen years ago)

The most embarrassing part of that thread:

I really need to see both Platform and Eureka.
-- Eric H. (Eric H.), Monday, January 10, 2005 7:11 AM (3 years ago)

Eric H., Thursday, 24 July 2008 17:39 (seventeen years ago)

In no particular order:

Spirited Away
Pan's Labyrinth
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
No Country for Old Men
The 40 Year Old Virgin
Borat
My Big Fat Greek Wedding
Marie Antoinette
The Royal Tenenbaums
Grizzly Man
Monsoon Wedding
The Devil and Daniel Johnston
Minority Report

o. nate, Thursday, 24 July 2008 18:02 (seventeen years ago)

off the top of my head:

Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
Zodiac
Inland Empire
Mulholland Drive
Darjeeling Limited
Children of Men
Donnie Darko
A Scanner Darkly

I'm sure there's more. its been a pretty good decade

Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 24 July 2008 18:06 (seventeen years ago)

Nothing here strikes me as that great, perhaps Inland Empire or Kung Fu Hustle? I'd maybe add Colossal Youth or Mysterious Object At Noon. Those are the only recent films I can remember being genuinely excited by though I'm sure there are a few others.

admrl, Thursday, 24 July 2008 18:07 (seventeen years ago)

Profit Motive and the Whispering Wind and La Trinchera Luminosa del Presidente Gonzalo are both recent and pretty good, I suppose they count. Where is C0l1n B?

admrl, Thursday, 24 July 2008 18:10 (seventeen years ago)

oh, Kung Fu Hustle would make my top 20 I think. (even Alex in SF is right now & then). So should Decasia.

Oh, and this:

http://www.joyoflifemovie.com/

The most embarrassing part of that thread:
I really need to see both Platform and Eureka.

'SPLAIN? Eureka is in too.

Dr Morbius, Thursday, 24 July 2008 18:27 (seventeen years ago)

I like Joy Of Life but highlight of the decade? What makes it stand out from all the other movies that do the same thing? Not a rhetorical question.

admrl, Thursday, 24 July 2008 18:32 (seventeen years ago)

Adam, what other movies do the same thing? I haven't seen em.

All three terrible. ;-)

Are you back from your long boring walk with Delpy and Hawke?

Dr Morbius, Thursday, 24 July 2008 18:33 (seventeen years ago)

Also, as c0l1n mentioned Los Angeles Plays Itself, I'd def. put that in there.

xp

I don't know, you haven't seen any other cine-essays comprised of static shots of urban landscapes? I say this as somebody that actually makes this type of movie, too! ;)

admrl, Thursday, 24 July 2008 18:35 (seventeen years ago)

I guess all the examples I can think of are actually from the 90s, so maybe you win.

admrl, Thursday, 24 July 2008 18:38 (seventeen years ago)

ha, send em to me, I'll put em on my list maybe.

I just liked the sexy Sapphic text over those stunning shots of SF, esp at dusk. And making Meet John Doe a big part of the suicide half.

Dr Morbius, Thursday, 24 July 2008 18:39 (seventeen years ago)

Okay, here's my top 10 from this decade, in no particular order:

Songs from the Second Floor (Sånger från andra våningen)
The Isle (Seom)
Persepolis
The 40 Year Old Virgin
Waiting List (Lista de espera)
Dark Days
Year of the Devil (Rok dábla)
Kitchen Stories (Salmer fra kjøkkenet)
Broken Flowers
Barking Dogs Never Bite (Flandersui gae)

And some other great movies from 00's:

Before Sunset
Shrek & Shrek 2
25 Watts
Sprited Away
Amélie
Jump Tomorrow
Moulin Rouge!
Return of the King
The Weatherman
Peppermint Candy (Bakha Satang)
Drive
Drôle de Félix (Funny Félix)
Mortal Transfer (Mortel transfert)
Eureka
American Splendor
Blades of Clory
Corto Maltese
Spider-Man 2
Borat
Look at Me (Comme une image)
Spider-Man 2
A Very Long Engagement
Mekhong Full Moon Party
Dodgeball

Tuomas, Thursday, 24 July 2008 18:40 (seventeen years ago)

Oh yeah, and Children of Men too, forgot about that one.

Tuomas, Thursday, 24 July 2008 18:42 (seventeen years ago)

The embarrassing thing is that I haven't seen them in the three years since that post, not that I was ever excited to see them.

Eric H., Thursday, 24 July 2008 18:46 (seventeen years ago)

so Children of Men was about real life?

It is a documentary about the present living conditions on the British Isles.

EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 15:52 (seventeen years ago)

Being "about" real life and "saying something about" real life are very different.

Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 10 December 2008 15:53 (seventeen years ago)

how does this statement:

I've never been particularly struck by it making big statements or commenting on post 9/11 whatever, although there were obvious visual references.

gel with "saying something about real life"? I'm not trying to be a prick, I'm honestly asking.

EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 15:58 (seventeen years ago)

x-post: my other favorites are also boringly predictable: Eternal Sunshine/Synecdoche, 40 Year Old Virgin, Far From Heaven, Ghost World, Borat, Dogville etc. etc. - all that have been mentioned innumerable times in this thread, but, um, as Snappin said - what bearing do the other films I like have if I'm shooting yer holy cow down?

Vichitravirya_XI, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 15:58 (seventeen years ago)

What films you do like is all about contextualising your opinion so I can understand where you're coming from better; I dislike Eternal Sunshine, for instance.

The "not struck by big statements" bit gels with "saying something about real life" because I was more struck by the characters and their environment than political allegories; the relationships with animals, towards art, the way people still went to work. I came out of the cinema thinking "wow, I've just seen a great film with some characters I really liked that was set in a universe I found really plausible" rather than "fuck me, Guantanamo Bay imagery".

Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 10 December 2008 16:03 (seventeen years ago)

i'm trying to decide which side of the coin equilibrium fell on, but i still really liked it anyway.

Redknapp out (darraghmac), Wednesday, 10 December 2008 16:06 (seventeen years ago)

Huckabees wasn't cod-philosophical, it was (intentionally) lol-philosophical. All just a gag.

ledge, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 16:06 (seventeen years ago)

That's true about Huckabees, I guess.

Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 10 December 2008 16:09 (seventeen years ago)

Waking Life I love because it's a beautiful, hollow shell of a film; the lucid dream / epistemology stuff is palatable, but basically, for me, a vehicle for some fucking amazing visuals.

Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 10 December 2008 16:09 (seventeen years ago)

Why does this matter? So you can either judge or dismiss the criticism?

so I can get a sense of how much I should regard the criticism (and whether to bother arguing it) yeah!

Yentl vs Predator (blueski), Wednesday, 10 December 2008 16:10 (seventeen years ago)

i should've perhaps specified 'films of the same 'genre' as CoM' tho

Yentl vs Predator (blueski), Wednesday, 10 December 2008 16:15 (seventeen years ago)

big x-post

The "not struck by big statements" bit gels with "saying something about real life" because I was more struck by the characters and their environment than political allegories; the relationships with animals, towards art, the way people still went to work. I came out of the cinema thinking "wow, I've just seen a great film with some characters I really liked that was set in a universe I found really plausible" rather than "fuck me, Guantanamo Bay imagery".

What does you're interest in the constructed reality say about real life? I'm not quite getting what you mean.

EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 16:19 (seventeen years ago)

another x-post

This - What films you do like is all about contextualising your opinion so I can understand where you're coming from better; I dislike Eternal Sunshine, for instance. - is a good reason to share likes/dislikes.

This - so I can get a sense of how much I should regard the criticism (and whether to bother arguing it) yeah! - is not.

Interest in greater understanding I'm cool with. Interest in order to judge or dismiss, not so much.

EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 16:22 (seventeen years ago)

seems pretty much that A is a euphimistic B

Redknapp out (darraghmac), Wednesday, 10 December 2008 16:24 (seventeen years ago)

I was reading the best into it, I'll admit. Understanding ≠ judgment, necessarily.

EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 16:28 (seventeen years ago)

The constructed reality in CoM, for me, was constructed from things I found recognisable in reality now; I recognised bits of London, TV presenters, the rhythms of people's speech ("baby Diego's a wanker", "make Sid a fugee face"), patterns of behaviour (the prevalence of animals, the gated off areas of London, the instinct to hoard art, or to drink in the day, dog racing, etc etc etc); arguably these are all production design things, yes, but they all fed into my enjoyment of the film as a version of reality I could imagine myself in. Coupled with the fact that I found Clive Owen's performance and character immensely sympathetic (having never really rated him before, and in fact actively disliked at least one film he's been in). I like films that construct a reality I find recognisable and plausible, a reality not that far removed from my own, but one that is still fantastical, that I can escape to, or project myself within; it's what I watch films for, really. Adventure! Discovering a new world.

Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 10 December 2008 16:29 (seventeen years ago)

Okay, that helps a great deal! I actually agree with those aspects of the film being strong - it is a well constructed, coherent possible world. I would use the phrase "grounded in reality." Cinematic sci-fi too often fails that simple test (written sci-fi does too, but different topic for a different thread).

What I am still unclear on is what does that "say about real life"? Is that just an unfortunate phrase for what you are getting at?

May I ask what other films fulfill this criteria for you? I find myself attracted to films that hew to an internal plausibility and coherence even if they aren't "real" in any way; my favorite film of all time (major warts and all) is Brazil, which is incredibly consistent and internally coherent to its World without being "real" or "plausible."

EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 16:42 (seventeen years ago)

superbly shot and edited, but utterly obvious in its linearity of story

this is a weird criticism to make of an adventure sci-fi movie! why does the 'obviousness' of the story's 'linearity' bother you? what is 'obvious' about it? why prize complex non-linear stories at the expense of more straightforward linear narratives?

devoid of character, and horribly acted.

do you mean the movie itself as a text had no 'character' or that the main figures weren't characters?

beyonc'e (max), Wednesday, 10 December 2008 16:49 (seventeen years ago)

do you mean the movie itself as a text had no 'character' or that the main figures weren't characters?

Now that you mention it, both, though I meant it more about the main figures. Not ciphers, not archetypes, not tropes, just... not there, I guess. They had names and things happened to them.

The "things happened to them" is my problem with the obvious linearity of the story as well. "Here is X, things happen to X over and over, at the end X does something we present as choice but is really not." I am not valuing complexity over simplicity at all; I'm arguing against hackneyed cliches. "X thinks A but it is really B!" is not only unoriginal but it is insulting when it can't be anything but. And this was an adventure movie? Really? I thought it was a parable in pretty clothes, our generations Logan's Run. Rare is the adventure in which the protagonist is not a participant in but an accessory to the story. Hmm. Must have seen a different movie from most everyone else.

If people want to compare it to adventures like the Indiana Jones or National Treasure franchises, then I'm totally okay with it. As a great work, one of the best of the decade - I'm going to take issue with that assessment.

EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 17:10 (seventeen years ago)

sorry dude but? "things happen to a character and then the character makes a choice" is such a broad description it could apply to nearly any narrative at all... i mean its not so much a cliche as it is a working definition of what narrative is...?

also "x thinks a but it is really b" is called "dramatic irony" and

i dont disagree w/ you that the movie at its narrative heart is simple and straightforward, but this seems to me to be a pretty necessary aesthetic choice...

beyonc'e (max), Wednesday, 10 December 2008 17:26 (seventeen years ago)

I am a hater of BOTH CoM and Eternal Sunshine and know that when the decade lists come out a year from now I'm gonna be annoyed, alas. (I don't actually HATE either, of course, just find both to be massively flawed.)

I'd add Wall-E to my list. That's about it. I saw The Dark Knight again last night and my opinion about it actually went up a little bit!

ryan, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 18:36 (seventeen years ago)

The Happy Guy Movie
How I Got Less Sad
Face 24
My Aged Scotch
Blankets & Pillows: A History

Abbott of the Trapezoid Monks (Abbott), Wednesday, 10 December 2008 19:12 (seventeen years ago)

x-post

I think the key is "things happen to X". He is not an active participant in his own story. As a protagonist, this makes it pretty hard to give a crap about a character whose narrative role could be assumed by a pillow until the end when - my god! he has to do something! - and his choice isn't a choice at all. He is never the actor, or even the reactor. He's a lump. And yes, you could apply my description of this particular movie to many other narratives. That does not, however, make the narrative of this piece any less generic or cliched.

also "x thinks a but it is really b" is called "dramatic irony"

Thanks for the literary theory. In CoM it isn't dramatic irony, because the viewer doesn't "know" the information before the character. It is just so patently obvious a development as to be painful. My wife groaned when the character finds out his ex's crew have their own agenda. Everyone has an agenda, except for Mr. Lumpen Protagonist. It wasn't dramatic irony as much as poor story construction that perhaps may have been intended as dramatic irony.

i dont disagree w/ you that the movie at its narrative heart is simple and straightforward, but this seems to me to be a pretty necessary aesthetic choice...

That is because it is a parable, not an adventure movie.

I've talked more about this movie than I ever intended. I really didn't like it, saw it once and will never see it again. I hope.

But Wall-E, now that's a movie I can get behind.

EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 19:32 (seventeen years ago)

w/r/t 4m3w2d, all I mean is that I cannot - at the moment - remember a film that I had such a powerful reaction to this decade. That I was impressed by visually, narratively, and thematically, quite as much as I was by 4m3w2d. I suppose there's some underlying assumption behind my statement - that a great film has to be important, or strive for importance. But all I meant was that I found it an incredibly powerful flick, and, that said, will never see it again. In hindsight, it might have been a bit hyperbolic to call it without qualification the best film of the decade.

Mordy, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 19:38 (seventeen years ago)

'99 films I wish would get consideration for this decade:

How's Your News? (1999) - more general release later
Galaxy Quest (1999) - December 25 release; international release in 2000
Spring Forward (1999) - 2000 general U.S. release

I loved all three

Pete Scholtes, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 19:43 (seventeen years ago)

I think the key is "things happen to X". He is not an active participant in his own story. As a protagonist, this makes it pretty hard to give a crap about a character whose narrative role could be assumed by a pillow until the end when - my god! he has to do something! - and his choice isn't a choice at all. He is never the actor, or even the reactor. He's a lump. And yes, you could apply my description of this particular movie to many other narratives. That does not, however, make the narrative of this piece any less generic or cliched.

but... owen's passivity isnt a fault of the movie, its a specific narrative choice that reveals things about his character, his character's background, and the world he lives in. this doesnt bother me, particularly, but it really seems to rub you the wrong way, i guess because you think that lumpenness makes his character generic and interchangeable--but at no point does that lumpenness sacrifice specific character traits or make owens character any less 'believable' (if anything it makes him more human and believable!)

Thanks for the literary theory. In CoM it isn't dramatic irony, because the viewer doesn't "know" the information before the character. It is just so patently obvious a development as to be painful. My wife groaned when the character finds out his ex's crew have their own agenda. Everyone has an agenda, except for Mr. Lumpen Protagonist. It wasn't dramatic irony as much as poor story construction that perhaps may have been intended as dramatic irony.

you cant have it both ways--either its 'so patently obvious' that everyone knows it, in which case its dramatic irony; or its subtle and surprising, in which case you dont really have a complaint.

im pretty poor at articulating my thoughts, and this may just be one of those things--but it bothers me that you can harbor such a vehement dislike for a movie based on its simplicity of narrative and the passivity of its main character. i dont really know what youre getting at with your parable stuff, and why on earth the difference btw parable and adventure would matter, but the idea that a character as subtly-crafted as owens, one whose backstory and personality is told so humanely and quietly, in the glances and silences of conversations as much as in the words that come out of his an others mouth, is generic or interchangeable, is totally bizarre to me. for all of its explosions and 20 minute tracking shots and a-to-b narrative setpieces CoM comes across as an enormously subtle movie, and i think focusing on the 'obviousness' of its plot development is... sort of missing the forest for the trees

beyonc'e (max), Wednesday, 10 December 2008 19:54 (seventeen years ago)

max OTM

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 20:03 (seventeen years ago)

it's subtle in some ways but enormously overheated in others. The whole conceit feels like pandering and even the darker more nihilistic stuff is oppressive in it's bleakness. That's the best I can do. It's hard to explain why you don't like things :-/

ryan, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 20:31 (seventeen years ago)

the idea that a character as subtly-crafted as owens, one whose backstory and personality is told so humanely and quietly, in the glances and silences of conversations as much as in the words that come out of his an others mouth, is generic or interchangeable, is totally bizarre to me.

See, this is the root of all my problems with this movie: I saw absolutely nothing in Owens performance. I have to scratch my head when I read about this subtle humanity and reticent personality. I got nothing from him at all. I felt almost any other actor would have made something - anything - from the role. I've seen nothing from him in any of his movies I've seen that makes me think he can act. Nothing.

I think neither one of us is articulating well. Something obvious is not necessarily "dramatic irony" - in this case it just seemed cliche, and irritated me. Is it dramatic irony that the character is too thick to figure it out? Maybe. But I don't feel that dramatic irony was what the filmmaker was trying to do in this case.

I don't "harbor a vehement dislike" for this because of simplicity or passivity of character. I dislike the movie (though not as vehemently as it may come across in scattered message board posts) because I found it uninteresting as a story, one filled with uninteresting characters who did nothing that wasn't telegraphed from miles away. However, it was beautiful to look at. The concepts and the construction of the world were sharp. Just didn't have anything in it for me to take away or care about in the least.

I think people make more of this than was there; people think I'm missing the point and all this subtle nuance. I don't hate the movie as much as am completely befuddled by the fawning appreciation. I think I wasted my money, but I didn't walk out or boo it or anything.

I didn't intend to derail this into a Children of Men discussion years after the fact. Just surprised that it still is held in such high regard. I had thought it might be a "flavor of the moment" type thing.

Let's talk about other things, shall we? I'm not changing anyone's mind, nor am I ever going to watch this again in hopes of catching a glimpse of the sublime.

EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 20:34 (seventeen years ago)

Mordy, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 20:35 (seventeen years ago)

Humphrey Bogart doesn't have an "agenda" in Casablanca either (to resurrecta CoMparison)

Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 20:37 (seventeen years ago)

Maybe I just hate kids and the movie portrays a kind of utopia!

ryan, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 20:39 (seventeen years ago)

imo owen is perfect for the role, all soft and craggy-faced with a weird wry smile and passive-aggressive demeanor. everything abt him screams frightened, all his movements are hesitant. hes soft and bored and apathetic and anxious...

beyonc'e (max), Wednesday, 10 December 2008 20:44 (seventeen years ago)

honestly sounds sort of like u dislike owen and arent particularly willing to let him get away with such a soft & passive character

beyonc'e (max), Wednesday, 10 December 2008 20:45 (seventeen years ago)

i remember thinking the CoM trailer sucked and had no intention of seeing it, but the movie ended up being pretty great when i finally did.

omar little, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 20:47 (seventeen years ago)

See maybe there's the difference. I thought the corny trailer was appropriate to the movie!

ryan, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 20:50 (seventeen years ago)

i dunno, the corny trailer didn't make me think it would be this brutal super-actiony flick

omar little, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 20:51 (seventeen years ago)

so was this a comeback decade for Godard, or what?

Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 20:52 (seventeen years ago)

I totally hated the CoM trailer, made me not want to see it. Was very surprised when it turned out to be so great.

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 20:54 (seventeen years ago)

All the movie did differently was take out the shitty music!

ryan, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 21:02 (seventeen years ago)

um, no. I remember the trailer emphasizing the "humanity is doomed.... but a fertile black woman will save us all!" angle in this sorta annoying, "uplifting" tone. There was no hint of the intricately constructed backdrop or subtle characterizations that make the film so great.

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 21:19 (seventeen years ago)

and yes where EZ (and ryan I presume) see one-dimensional cliches - in Owen, in Julianne Moore, in the guard who refers to himself in the third person, in the art collector, in Caine's old stoner - I see subtletly.

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 21:20 (seventeen years ago)

sure. I am probably being way too hard on it. either way, it's a striking and well-crafted movie.

ryan, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 21:23 (seventeen years ago)

tho i should add i dont really care about characters in a movie like this--and for all the subtleties and exciting actions scenes, i dunno...no one's convinced me that there's any interesting ideas in there.

ryan, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 21:29 (seventeen years ago)

not that they need to! i just havent found them. is it on blu-ray yet? maybe i'll watch it again.

ryan, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 21:30 (seventeen years ago)

Zizek is OTM about the old stoner, btw. Him being this detoothed, infertile paternal figure of the 60s. The guy you kinda like having hang around.

Mordy, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 21:32 (seventeen years ago)

I enjoyed watching that Zizek video in general. Don't know if I agree with him about everything, but some cool ideas in there.

Your heartbeat soun like sasquatch feet (polyphonic), Wednesday, 10 December 2008 21:37 (seventeen years ago)

My favorites so far (in vaguely chronological order):

Galaxy Quest (1999): Best wish fulfillment.

How's Your News? (1999): Best empathy for people with developmental disabilities.

Spring Forward (1999)
Sideways (2004)
Shaun of the Dead (2004)
Superbad (2007): Best buds movies, why indie exists.

Best in Show (2000)
Anvil: The Anvil Movie (2008): Best Guest and best real-life movie about holding on to your dreams.

Dark Days (2000)
Into the Wild (2007): Best films about going off the grid.

Traffic (2000)
Syrianna (2005)
Babel (2006)
Fast Food Nation (2006): Best "Meet the new wars, same as the old wars."

Cast Away (2000): Best film to say that you can let go of your great love/job, that maybe they were just your handprint on a ball anyway.

Meet the Parents (2000)
Dan in Real Life (2008): Best new awkward.

Girlfight (2000)
Million Dollar Baby (2004): Best new genre.

The Filth and the Fury (2000)
Westway to the World (2000)
Joe Strummer: The Future Is Unwritten (2007): Best punk.

Kaho Naa... Pyaar Hai (2000): Best token Bollywood musical mind-blower.

Memento (2000): Best screwing-with-time-frame noir.

Go Tigers! (2001): Best football.

Training Day (2001): Best film about the sinking feeling that everything is much worse than you thought.

Iris (2001): Best film about decline before death.

Bridget Jones's Diary (2001)
Legally Blonde (2001): Best romantic comedies about underestimated women in bunny suits.

Mulholland Dr. (2001)
Los Angeles Plays Itself (2003): Best non-hoorays for Hollywood, and inadvertent tributes to movie dreams.

Porn Star: The Legend of Ron Jeremy (2001): Best porn doc.

The Fashionistas (2002, Rated X): Best porn.

The Revolution Will Not Be Televised (2002) [a.k.a. Chavez: Inside the Coup]: Best live coup attempt.

About a Boy (2002)
School of Rock (2003): Best caring-for-children-as-moment-of-clarity comedies.

The Pianist (2002): Best worm's-eye view of Holocaust.

Secretary (2002): Best adult love story.

Elf (2003): Best Christmas and Will Ferrell.

Aileen: Life and Death of a Serial Killer (2003)
Monster (2003): Best tragic-serial-killer-lovers.

American Splendor (2003): Best film about a non-music artist, even if he's technically a writer.

The Yes Men (2003): Best corporations-are-evil film.

Before Sunset (2004): Best film about love from random meeting (at least since The Clock).

North Korea: A Day in the Life (2004): Best covert denunciation.

Hotel Rwanda (2004): Best true heroic suspense story.

Spider-Man 2 (2004)
Iron Man (2008): Best superhero (zeitgeist Marvel with humor).

The Village (2004)
The White Diamond (2004): Best movies about belief in the woods.

Krumped (2004, short documentary) [precursor to Rize]: Best hip-hop document.

The Woodsman (2004)
The Squid and the Whale (2005): Best abuse stories (in an increasingly crowded field).

Brokeback Mountain (2005): Best forbidden love.

Sweet Land (2005): Best love-the-one-you're-with.

Serenity (2005): Best Star Wars.

North Country (2005): Best muckraking trial film, but with no trial. Also best localism, realism, feminism, and father coming around.

Casino Royale (2006): Best comedy of pop revisionism, and best Bond since The Spy Who Loved Me.

Children of Men (2006): Best dystopia.

Michael Clayton (2007): Best new paranoid.

No Country for Old Men (2007): Best villain.

Ratatouille (2007): Best animal-secret-world film, and best film to get kids interested in cooking.

Run Fatboy Run (2007): Best Rocky.

Shoot 'Em Up (2007): Best action wet dream.

Sicko (2007): Best compare-contrast expose.

There Will Be Blood (2007): Best new Citizen Kane/reverse-It's a Wonderful Life opera.

Trouble the Water (2008): Best Katrina doc and aspiring-rapper drama.

Pete Scholtes, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 23:06 (seventeen years ago)

oooooh Cast Away is 2000? That goes on my list too!

ryan, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 23:09 (seventeen years ago)

two years pass...

A Serious Man & Bad Lieutenant: POCNO

johnny crunch, Sunday, 20 February 2011 02:15 (fifteen years ago)


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