Decapitation reported on Manitoba bus

just crazy. not sure what else there is to say, really, but details are still coming in.

Mr. Caton said the victim boarded in Edmonton, was Aboriginal in appearance

What?

fkn hell

Mr. Caton said the victim boarded in Edmonton, was Aboriginal in appearance, and was wearing hip-hop clothing, and appeared to be a young man around 20 years of age.

? xpost

in the prairies, at night = extra creepy, scary, and awful

one of canada's many savage aborigines

No, he's the guy who got killed

THIRTY-SIX passengers watched as ONE passenger stabbed and decapitated another one.

Frankly I'd charge them as accessories to murder.

Frankly you're a retard

It was like he was at the beach, there was no rage in him

Strange observation

BAN KNIVES

"He didn't do anything to provoke the guy. They guy just took a knife out and stabbed him, started stabbing him like crazy and cut his head off," said Garnet Caton, 36, a passenger.

The bus made an emergency stop, and passengers fled in terror onto the Trans-Canada Highway while the bus's driver and a driver of a nearby truck shut the crazed man inside the bus with the victim. Passengers say they stood outside the bus and watched through the window, horrified, as the man disfigured the victim's body.

accessories to murder? be serious.

Yes, obviously it's retarded to think that 36 people could have raised at least one of their cowardly, lazy fingers to stop one person killing another. Maybe we should just blow the planet up and have done with it.

http://www.angelfire.com/comics/mooreportal/images/kitty02.jpg

Maybe they were scared as shit of the guy with a knife who just went crazy and started stabbing at random. You know, just maybe.

I see where Dingbod is coming from regarding overpowering the guy. But I don't think people have a legal obligation to try to stop something horrible happening near them. Especially not when trying to stop it would likely have ended up with others badly hurt. We can argue about moral responsibility---I see a case there---but claiming legal responsibility is a mistake.

the important thing is to exercise our own swift, harsh judgement on shit we read about for two seconds on the internet

Oilyrags otm

I imagine the passengers' reactions were something of a stunned and collective AHHHHHWTFWTFWTFWTF by which point I'm sure the guy was pretty much dead. And this was at night, right? Like half of them were probably WOKE by this?

(on top of what Oilyrags said)

this is why i won't take the bus

Some people were puking, some people were crying, other people were in shock ... everybody was running, screaming off the bus.

^^^far more understandable reaction than any kind of split second heroic bullshit

(heard this story too many times before, Surmounter? :-)

i'm always afraid of bus crazies!

I take the bus every day and have never been decapitated. Or decapitated anyone else.

And this is TEXAS!

wow

this is why i won't take the bus

Well, not in Manitoba anyway. Certainly not anymore.

I've taken Greyhound from NO to ATL and seen some fucked-up things on there, dudes grinning as they sharpen their knives, people fucking, people just cackling incessantly for hours. I've never seen any violence though.

ewwwww

Dingbod Kesterson in conjunction with Esther Rantzen and the Daily Mail applauds the have-a-go-heroes!

Yeah, I should point out this is the city bus. Last time I did a crosscountry bus trip (just Houston to Austin, actually) it was still pretty mellow, though.

"When we saw the head, we knew he was dead,

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c234/gizmo92067/golfclap.gif

Rode the dog from MN to Phoenix once, it took 48 hours. In the day they blasted the AC and everyone froze to death, at night it was the heat and I couldn't get a wink of sleep because I was sticking to my seat. Cross-eyed red-headed kids from Ohio told me the names of all their farm animals, a 14 year old runaway instructed me in how to rob parking meters, and on a very plain looking middle aged man I saw two of the scariest tattoos I'd ever seen in my life--H A T E on one fist, and when I glanced over looking for L O V E on the other, well, nope, that one said H A T E, too.

I've done Greyhound Canada before (never in the U.S., ironically) and I am 100% decapitation free. Then again, the Vancouver-Whistler route is much shorter.

This is making me twice about taking a Seattle-Ellensburg Greyhound trip in September, though.

haha, THINK twice.

> H A T E on one fist, and when I glanced over looking for L O V E on the other, well, nope, that one said H A T E, too.

Gotta admire his focus, though!

Kerouwacky...

wait, he hates hate? woo!

Guy who got decapitated on Manitoba bus, what's on your iPod?

blood

LOL

I have a sinking feeling Saskatchewan will be implicated in all of this.

People have started calling it Stabmonton.

Not Headmonton?

FWIW, taking the bus in Canada is generally safe. I sleep on the bus most mornings as I've an hour ride in.. once, I was woken up by a guy who told me I shouldn't sleep on the bus, and then proceeded to propose to me. Now I make sure if I am sleeping on the bus, it's in a single seat!

My answer, incidentally, was "You don't even know me, dude!" and then a response of avoiding eye contact with him for the next six months. I'm brave!

six month bus journey? where'd you go?

I take the bus every day and have never been decapitated. Or decapitated anyone else.

YET!

Oh, hahaha, no - we each had to take that bus to work in the morning, so I saw him almost daily for six months, then stopped seeing him - I like to think he married his boss, owns the company now, and has his own car.. but I'm guessing this weirdo probably got his ass fired.

Heard from a Manitoban friend that this was apparently a gang killing, and that the gang problem in Manitoba is actually severe enough that the only thing about this murder that surprised him is its flamboyance.

yeesh!

ffs!

anyways - i was thinking about that barely audible "plz kill me" he uttered. i was thinking maybe he was going for a cop assisted suicide type thing. maybe he's wanted to end himself for a while but hasn't been able to do it himself, for whatever reason.

it also makes me glad to know he is not going to get his wish.

t/s: most ordinary people trying to get ahead in a competitive world vs guy who chops off your head on a bus.

ok, if you really wanna do this one: a guy who hears voices "in his head" (most people who have auditory hallucinations experience them as an external phenomenon; often you'll see them plugging their ears or listening to music loud to drown the voices out) that he thinks come from God or Mars or whatever who one day gets the order from these voices to kill the demon next to him on the Greyhound...that's not evil. Just sad and horrifying. The guy who - well, let's take me. Right now in my town I could be helping out at the soup kitchen. I don't have to work today. I'm posting on the internet instead. That's the result of a lifelong tendency to put myself ahead of my community; I'm not really alone in being like this, right? But hey. I work. I work my ass off, I deserve a rest, right? Meanwhile, pretty good chance that I could have done some good for somebody today, and I'm not gonna. More evil in me for not acting on what I know is right than in some guy who lost his marbles and killed somebody.

I know this is some soapbox-y "preachy" shit but whatever, as soon as somebody wants to start worrying about good vs. evil it's time to remove the log from yr own eye before the splinter in yr neighbor's, etc

this is kind of off what ppl are talking about, but the tension between condemnation and treatment seems like a microcosm of a lot of political arguments to me:

conservatives are 'opposed' to 'science' because it supposedly encroaches on the province of god: evil is evil and should be condemned and stamped out in this life just as god will damn it in the next. calling something a syndrome or a complex removes it from the province of god, and science is a threat because it is constantly moving outward and inward into human experience, shrinking that province. "we used to be able to call evil what it is, but now everyone deserves therapy!! even if they chop someone's head off!" (i'm imagining a lumpen-conservative reaction to J0hn here, i guess, but you see this kind of thing constantly)

the act of condemnation is a feel-good measure for the one doing the condemning with zero value to anyone else. it necessitates ignoring what happens the moment after that condemnation, let alone figuring out what happened: okay, the dude who cut someone's head off is EVIL, so what? now what?

but, skipping over that, it's theologically pretty presumptuous, and imagines a relatively small and petty god who can be shooed off his duty by a few therapists or men in lab coats. the idea that this guy will meet his judgment no matter what we call him or do to him, seems absent. honestly i think the objection to science is that it has removed all the fun from being able to think of yourself as good and true by reflexively pointing your finger and things that are revolting.

We don't know enough about this Li dude to say, yet, but apparently he had a job, bought a bus ticket, and brought a knife. At what point is a functioning adult no longer responsible for recognizing they have a problem and seeking help?

And it doesn't take some caricature of a conservative fundamentalist to find potential problems with the ever broadening scope of mental illness diagnoses and consequent erosion of personal responsibility.

evil's what allows most of us...to be apathetic about the hungry and needy most every day.

Your language here is characteristically delicate, esp. the term "allows" rather than "causes", J0hn. And I'm deeply sympathetic with what you're saying. But I wanted to point out that this way of looking at evil contributes to the sense a lot of us have that the demands of being good are so high that we can't possible live up to them---and I think having this sense contributes to the apathy you're decrying.

He's totally responsible for what he did but that doesn't also mean he was not batshit crazy or that he could have stopped himself.

Also Euler OTM.

Westboro creeps stopped at the border?

(Saw a headline somewhere but can't seem to find it right away)

At what point is a functioning adult no longer responsible for recognizing they have a problem and seeking help?

I can't even begin to wrap my head around this. Do you have even a cursory understanding of how something like, say, schizophrenia tends to operate?

Some were stopped but some made it through. People are going to form a barrier between the funeral goers and the Westboro nuts: http://www.winnipegsun.com/News/Manitoba/2008/08/08/6388411.html

sell laptop, buy ticket, board bus, go to work? xp

*whoosh*

we can talk "morality" and "personal responsibility" to the cows come home, but I'd rather leave that for the Fox News talking heads.

the problem is, the moment you dare attempt to rationalize what somebody like Li did without resorting to pedestal climbing or outright condemnation, you're seen as being unsympathetic to the victim, which is completely ridiculous. and it is a bit silly to grade a potential schizophrenic on the same scale as your normal blue collar American with no history of mental illness or disturbance.

also, the incompetence of some in the psychiatric community does not invalidate the concept of mental illness.

Your language here is characteristically delicate, esp. the term "allows" rather than "causes", J0hn. And I'm deeply sympathetic with what you're saying. But I wanted to point out that this way of looking at evil contributes to the sense a lot of us have that the demands of being good are so high that we can't possible live up to them---and I think having this sense contributes to the apathy you're decrying.

-- Euler, Friday, August 8, 2008 6:12 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

owned

Think part of the problem is that in the desire to explain, to understand, to consider context and contributory factors, theres a danger that society collectively feels that condemnation, castigation of the perpetrator is insufficient, that somehow (even with jail sentence) the perpetrator is insufficiently morally punished, that excuses are made for them.

and when we take this dimension as read, thinking the personal responsibility for criminal action is kind of inherently there, and spen more time looking for reasons (which can appear as excuses), and less time delivering the requisite amount of wrath and moral condemnation then an aspect of moral punishment is missing, punishment must contain a cathartic element for society. if this element is diminshed, then no matter what the severity of the punishment, we get this feeling that somehow criminals are 'getting away with it'

guessing some westboro peeps were denied because they couldn't justify how they would not interfere with the paying jobs of other canadians to do batshitcrazy funeral protesting. Stockwell day was jealous, essentially

(By the way, this is totally the type of discussion I was hoping for in this thread, and I am finding J0hn way more OTM than Owned)

And I'm deeply sympathetic with what you're saying. But I wanted to point out that this way of looking at evil contributes to the sense a lot of us have that the demands of being good are so high that we can't possible live up to them---and I think having this sense contributes to the apathy you're decrying.

It's a good point E. I was trying very hard not to be demanding anything too high or unrealistic, hence "allowed" rather than "causes" - I don't want to be saying "if you don't do all you can, you're evil." I mean it's my opinion that the demands of thinking a little about what good one might do today isn't really so much - just a hard habit to get into, given that life is hard & busy & we're all tired & all that. True of me too! But I think we make room for evil when we say "well, the pressure's too high, I just can't" instead of - and this is some motivational-guru shit, I know - "well, what can I do," you know?" I'm also of the ridiculous-to-most opinion that a moment's reflection is actually a tangible good - that considering the question in the first place just once a day would end up shaping behaviors 1) painlessly and 2) for immeasurable good. There's a bit some yoga instructors do before or after classes that involves this sort of thing, and I often think it does as much good as the yoga itself.

In re: responsibility, so much of what I want to say is anecdotal stuff from my days as a nurse, and that's off-limits. I can say that there are many patients in state hospitals right now who 1) were committed there involuntarily i.e. didn't seek help and who 2) seem so functional (and did before they went in) that you'd think they were staff members if you met them - articulate, well-dressed, very intelligent and friendly, yet who, 3) if you talk to them for an hour or so, will tell you that they know you have been sent by the devil to observe them and eventually murder them. There's delusion and there's hallucination, and delusion isn't "thinking something stupid"; it's a firm fixed belief. If you or I get a wrong idea in our heads, friends (or enemies!) can probably talk us out of it. That's not the case for the truly delusional; delusions aren't as "oh fuck look dude is talking to angels" as hallucinations, they're easily hidden, but they're no less pernicious, and many of the people who have them seem normal.

And again, I mean "we should just feel sorry for this guy" isn't what I'm saying. But demonizing him 1) is probably inaccurate and 2) is completely pointless anyway, while I think trying to understand what happens in a case like this isn't pointless.

He's totally responsible for what he did but that doesn't also mean he was not batshit crazy or that he could have stopped himself.

and this is OTM - justice is a huge concept; we have to hold a person responsible for his actions in some way. but justice tempered with mercy, and mercy's what's called for when a person has done something horrible that he couldn't foresee or stop himself from doing once his illness had taken the reins.

wtf canada

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2008/09/21/greyhound-stabbing.html

The incident comes less than two months after another Greyhound passenger allegedly beheaded Tim McLean

Allegedly?

But anyway, minor injuries, which is good. I'm guessing this wouldn't have even made the paper if it wasn't for the previous incident.

yeah, an editor would have slashed it

^^ Edgy.

thought this would be the revive:

Tory candidate quits after blog entries surface
Joseph Brean, Canwest News Service
Published: Sunday, September 21, 2008

TORONTO - The Conservative candidate for a downtown Toronto riding has stepped down amid controversy over comments he posted on his blog.

Chris Reid, who was challenging Liberal foreign affairs critic Bob Rae in Toronto Centre, resigned after blog postings emerged in which he criticized passengers on a Prairie bus this summer who "stood by and watched" as a man beheaded a fellow passenger, "and couldn't muster up any courage or self-sacrifice to intervene."

"This is where socialism as (sic) gotten us folks, a castrated effeminate population," he wrote on Aug. 10, more than a week after the killing of Tim McLean, 22.

http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/media.canada.com/b1ebd207-78c7-4022-aed7-0925c5ee8f77/chrisreid0921.jpg?size=l
Photo attached of Chris Reid who resigned as the conservative candidate in the riding of Toronto Centre.

Reid also called for debate on the right to carry a concealed weapon, an end to abortion and official multiculturalism, an elected Senate, and closing the CBC because of its "far left-wing bias." He said gay advocates in the Toronto Centre riding, which includes the city's gay village, tolerate the promotion of "promiscuity, drug usage and prostitution."

Kory Teneycke, the prime minister's chief spokesman, said he first learned about Reid's blog on Saturday. He said political staffer David Gentili would now carry the Tory banner in the riding against Rae.

"You can't fire your candidate," said Teneycke. "This person has resigned."

Another Tory spokesperson, Deirdra McCracken, said Reid withdrew because "he couldn't commit to possibly four years as an MP, in order to pursue other goals." She said there was no truth to the claim that he resigned because of the comments, although she said the decision was made this weekend. "He withdrew because he wanted to pursue other things," she said.

Rae, who is projected to win easily in Toronto Centre, said that explanation is "completely preposterous."

"I think a more likely explanation are some of the truly weird comments that Mr. Reid has been making on the Internet over the last several months," he said. "I think that it would be the least the Conservative party could do to explain. Either they knew about these ravings, or they didn't, and if they didn't, that speaks to a problem, and if they did, then it speaks to an even bigger problem.

"I think the Conservatives, generally speaking, have a problem with their team."

The comments were revealed on Saturday, when M.J. Murphy, a Torontonian who runs the blog bigcitylib.blogspot.com, posted several of Reid's writings under the headline: "The Tories Run Gay Nutter in TO!" He had retrieved them from an online cache after public access to Reid's blog was apparently removed.

Murphy said the swift reaction has shown the power of blogs in elections, but he said it also revealed something about the vetting process for candidates.

"This guy was never gonna win," he said. "And so one of the things that I've been doing is looking at the no-hopers on the premise that they're not vetted that deeply. But if they're not vetted deeply, and something comes up, it's going to embarrass the campaign on a national level."

As such, he compared it to the controversy involving pot-smoking and the NDP. On Wednesday, NDP candidate Dana Larsen dropped out of the election after he was shown in old video lighting joints, taking LSD and driving while "flying," as he said in a video.

That's right folks: this guy would have stood up to the madman.
http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/media.canada.com/b1ebd207-78c7-4022-aed7-0925c5ee8f77/chrisreid0921.jpg?size=l

Those are trained killer eyebrow caterpillars.

(sigh. everything already exists. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070924041901AAAHAWb - scroll down to Tosser's answer)

Harold from the Red Green show looks like Lemmy in comparison.

Man spits out ear of decapitated victim (ok, I exaggerated that first bit) and pleads not guilty.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090302/bus_trial_090303/20090303?hub=TopStories

Verdict: tomorrow
http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Canada/2009/03/04/8626906.html

http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20090303/160_cp_Li_090303.jpg

So wait a minute, they brought back the victim to testify in the case?

Smart move. A decapitated head can't point at the killer.

WINNIPEG -- A judge has ruled that Vincent Li is not criminally responsible for the murder and dismemberment of Tim McLean aboard a Greyhound bus.

Yet, in a strange development confirmed shortly after the ruling, a government official told media Li will have a criminal record, which is not typically the case for those found not criminally responsible (NCR).

That official has not yet explained why or how this will occur.

Earlier, the judge did offer insight as to why he chose the NCR ruling.

"Persons who are profoundly ill do not have the mental capacity to intentionally commit a crime," said Justice John Scurfield.

"This case has attracted international attention because of the barbaric manner in which Mr. McLean was killed," Scurfield said.

"These grotesque acts are appalling...but are strongly suggestive of a mental disorder."

The ruling means Li will be held in custody at a mental institution, not jail.

Li will remain in secure custody at the psychiatric unit of Health Sciences Centre until a hearing can be scheduled before the mental health review board.

Oh, ok. If it's gruesome enough, you probably couldn't help yourself? Nice one.

You think he wasn't crazy?

There's quite some discussion about that earlier in this very thread.

i bet if the man was a muslim he wouldn't get away so "easily" with a decapitation.

eh, lol

sorry :P

Did a search for the band Low and clicked on a thread titled 'New Low', expecting it to be about an album of theirs. Instead I came across this sprawling masterpiece, containing some of the worst off colour & "way too soon" frat boy jokes ever.....nicely counterbalanced by some stimulating ethical discussion. Not sure if this is the best or worst thing I've ever read on here. Either way, well played ILX....well played. *insert another 'head' related pun/joke/whatever that i'm too lazy to make*

i think a mod should head off this revive before we get to some posts that will really cut to the bone

i think if anyone ever asks why cankles was banned again, this thread serves as a sufficient reminder...

I can't believe I missed not only this thread, but this entire incident. Just slipped right past me somehow.

U WERE THE KILLER

The wiki page does say that the killer is only now coming around to accepting that he actually committed the crime, though he still doesn't accept the cannibalism part.

This is the most fucked up thing I've ever heard of.

so everyone talks abt this on canadian greyhounds all the time

apparently

weird. I was thinking about this today.