All the leaves are brown, and the sky is g a y: FAll '08!

be good boys, it's only saturday night and i'm already feeling too gay for my own good ;)

Gayist.

r.i.p. ;_;
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/41/78605129_3e58f85624.jpg?v=0

Any reason for making the thread title unsearchable?

Okay, another attempt at explaining why I couldn't be comfortable with an open relationship. You know how, at the beginning of something great, you get that feeling of near perfect emotional and physical happiness, you're always smiling and thinking of the other person, you can't wait to see them, etc. etc? And you know how, when you've been in a relationship for a couple of years, you have a wonderful, close bond but the excitement factor, and probably the sex factor, have been toned down a lot?

Then, you go out, meet someone for a one-nighter, and suddenly - omg, there's that feeling from before, the fantastic squeeee omg feeling! How come you don't feel this for your partner any more? So suddenly you can't get this new person out of your mind, you think about them all the time, and then you go home to your partner, who seems dull, unsexy, asks you to take out the trash or is pissed off at you for not going to visit their parents the next day. And you begin to wonder - how can *this* be better than what I'm feeling for the new person? Maybe the new person will take me away from all this!

Perhaps I have never been 100% happy in a relationship, I don't know, but sex opens the door to emotion and closeness and compared to your old, reliable, predictable relationship, the new person has a big fat advantage which isn't even necessarily real but dammit it feels like it is.

Make any sense? I suspect this is the kind of concept I could only explain verbally but hell.

isn't even necessarily real but dammit it feels like it is

Yeah, so at that point you suspect you're being duped, and you don't trust it. Or do you always fall for the simple, common dupes that you know well enough to point out?

Also, that scenario hasn't really happened to me. Although I've met people who, in retrospect, I would have felt a bit squee about if I hadn't been in a relationship at the time.

And if you'd had a chance to fuck them, be close to them, gaze into their eyes while you're inside them, hold hands while walking through piles of leaf litter etc.?

Thing is though - how do you know it's a dupe? What if the new person IS an improvement on your lover?

(i.e. THAT is the thinking that gets you in trouble)

my parents took ryan and i to see that Boeing-Boeing last night? it was fucking hilarious. gina and christine baranski were great. rly the whole cast.

i know what you mean, mark. i think it just depends on your personality, what you're comfortable with, and what you're looking for. i think the gay scene offers me the sex for sex's sake option, and i take it. it doesn't have to be a meaningful squee.

Well, you just explained to yourself how it's quite likely it's a dupe, and also you already have a thing and a history. I dunno, if I'm on Let's Make A Deal, and I have $50k in hand, and I'm told that I could trade for what's behind the curtain, but I know that at best what's behind the curtain is only going to be, like, $60k, but might be $5, then probably I'm gonna stick with what I've got. Except that we're not talking about money, we're talking about people, making it even less likely that I'm going to want to throw that $50k away, so to speak, to gamble someone else's $50k on my own chance at a slight increase. If you see what I mean.

omg my aunt was asking me about my open relationship yesterday (she's more like my mom)

i was like yeah we "see" other people... it's going well...

Chris, are you so in charge of your emotions that you can disregard something that might feel amazing so easily? Let's say I did manage to do as you suggest, but I am still thinking about the new person, remembering the night together, fantasising about it maybe. Thinking "I wish I could see them again, one more time wouldn't hurt, would it?". Making inevitably unfavourable comparisons with my partner. Wondering why this amazing feeling of renewal and excitement has to go away. I'm sorry, it's not as easy as you suggest. Sure, 90% of the time your new sexual adventure won't have this effect - it's just when it does I can't see it being anything other than hugely destabilising.

(NB I've never had an open relationship so it's all theory. I have had long term relationships during which I have been extremely attracted to other people, and in these cases I am relieved I wasn't able to sleep with them because all kinds of shit would have been fucked up. Also we're presupposing that the long-term partner has a 100% cool and non-judgemental perfect attitude to the open relationship too, and that you yourself have the same attitude to their extra-curricular activities. I bet that's a hard balance to find, though props to Sur is he's managed it)

my parents took ryan and i to see that Boeing-Boeing last night? it was fucking hilarious.

Dude, I'm jealous. (I would love to see Mark Rylance on stage again, I caught a Globe Theater performance of his as Hamlet years back in London and it'd be a treat to see him do a full on comedic role.)

i think it's kind of natural to entertain other options though. humans are in the minority in thinking you can devote yourself to one organism for the rest of your life. it just seems kind of ridiculous, no?

he was GREAT ned!

it rly was the best night at the theater i've spent in a while.

so your worry is being dumped, basically? mark?

Any reason for making the thread title unsearchable?

Surmounter said he didn't even want the word "gay" in the title at all, and so I guess now it's not.

haha i was just drunkers!

i've mod-requested an alteration for user searchability ;)

omg sooo pretty out today

Which thread regular is which Mama or Papa?

http://www.harpmagazine.com/img/news/20070120_Mamas_Papas.jpg

was JUST gonna say this is the perfect day for them. i'm puttin it on!

i call mama c

Does anyone really want to be either of the Papas?

Chris, are you so in charge of your emotions that you can disregard something that might feel amazing so easily?

Yes, if I know it's not going to be so amazing -- or rather, if at best it'll be amazing for a while, and then settle into more or less what I've got right now, except I'll have hurt someone and will have had to start over from scratch.

But then, I kind of hate that initial excitement period, in part because it's so likely to delude you. Not that someone you've been with for years can't delude you, but it's much less likely, and it's usually something you could have seen coming.

I don't really think of that as being in charge of my emotions, though? More like I've put my hand to similar flames a little too often to think I won't get burned.

The leaves are NOT brown, and the sky is GRAY, not gay, thanks to Hurricane Gustav.

Sur, yes, being dumped is a big concern, especially if I'm dumped because my partner can't see beyond the sexy fun excitement of a new affair. And I also don't trust myself not to get emotionally tied in knots in the same circumstance.

I also kind of agree with you about not being meant to be monogamous (though there are plenty of other animals who are so I don't think you can use the whole "it's not natural" argument) but, you know, I've had a fair number of girlfriends and sexual partners to date so it's not like I haven't been exploring my options over the last twenty years.

really? It's lovely here xpost ; )

Kevin (with light-hearted passive-aggressiveness): Eric H. said he doesn't want to see politics or movies on the gay thread. So I will have very little to contribute.

Chat transcripts suggest otherwise.

My cat and I are trying to catch a mouse.

Mark, re that squee feeling - for better or worse, it is pretty common for gay guys to have sex that involves no real emotions. Or names. Or faces.

You may be right Jesse, though I really struggle to imagine there's a fundamental difference between straight and gay people in that area. Obviously it's possible for us to do that too but... I'm just emo, maybe. Or a girl.

You just have less practice at it. Eventually, you too could look at another person as a masturbation device. lol/sigh

Kevin (with light-hearted passive-aggressiveness): Eric H. said he doesn't want to see politics or movies on the gay thread. So I will have very little to contribute.

You know I'm not serious about that. Though when the topic of movies comes up, I can not be held responsible for the contemptuous things I might say.

Eric H -- the Mr. Mean of movie reviewing.

Well, if you have contemptuous things to say about either The Twonky or Jackie's Back, I'm with you.

um so many cute trendy boys at the flea market... guys i have to show the gold chain belt i just got later.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g192/rrawn/Photo37.jpg

also this pin:
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g192/rrawn/Photo38.jpg

good day!

tl; dr

but, BEST SEASON EVER, hands down!

already eager with anticipation

yowza, yowza, yowza

aw, that pin is <3

if only there were an emoticon to communicate that...

that pin needs some lucy bringin gravity & wreckin shit

oh wait, is this the rolling gay thread?

sorry for intruding

i thought it was an all-purpose, all orientations celebration of autumn

lol cute

ryan's concerned about the belt, a little.

ugh whatta night. housemate came out to gay bar, weirdly cock-blocked me for a bit (which was strange), then we went out for food with a bunch of cute gays, then i cock-blocked her. and made her pay for a cab.

weird night.

xp Omg are you sure you should still be together?

xpostia

i feel like if i ordered a pin like that from ebay and then walked around sporting it, it would genuinely and emphatically change my life for the betters

lol i hate you xp

i dunno. i can't say for sure because i'm not in your shoes, but if i were gay (i'm not) and someone who was supposed to be my friend didn't think i should be allowed the right to marry/legally be with the person I loved, they wouldnt be my friend. regardless of how nice they were or the intelligence of their arguments

Yeah, I'd ditch him. Who knows, he might come around later. Maybe much later. Or maybe not. But until he comes to you and says he's changed his mind, I'd hit the highway.

that email was a tour de force V, well done in standing up for yourself so elegantly.

Your friend's (hardly unique, unfortunately) remark about "shoving it down our throats" reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend of mine. She's a sculpture student writing a thesis about images of women who makes sound installations based on sexuality and gender interaction. I had read an interview with Gloria Steinem somewhere that I thought she would find interesting (I used to have one friend who I would talk about this kinda stuff with but our relationship is strained at the moment) and I mentioned it to her really casually while in her kitchen one evening and she literally flipped, genuinedly irked that I would call her a "feminist" (I hadn't, by the way). I couldn't understand why she was so cranky about it until the other girls who were there explained that calling somebody a feminist basically implies that they're a short, chain-smoking lesbian with anger management problems. For the life of me I couldn't understand this at all, I told her I would (and would imagine anybody would) be proud to say they were a feminist, and just much as to be proud to call themselves a supporter of racial equality or gay rights.

But I think this is really horrible the way people can internalise the opposition's attempts to demonise them, so that intelligent, college age girls are afraid of the stigma attached to a term like "feminism"! I think this gets followed in how people don't want to be seen as too vocal in demanding their rights, as if we should be seen to be more accomodating of marginalisation, as though humility and stoicism should be smiled upon. That's not really how it works, its only when the selfish interests that deny people rights find out how inconvenient things can be made in return that they'll start to budge. That is, the kind of person who could tick a box and take away someone else's rights, and I mean that, for it to be no more difficult than just to tick a box, needs to feel the implications of that in some other way. And I don't think this is an eye for an eye, but I do think that people need to use the clout that they have, and as a relatively rich minority, the gay community are not without clout.

http://dreamchimney.com/slvs/B000001FU6.01.LZZZZZZZ_20060810070850.jpg

http://cdn.7static.com/static/img/sleeveart/00/001/661/0000166128_350.jpg

i had to post those two album covers side by each and couldn't think of anywhere else to put them because i generally don't post on the eye elle emm.

been listening to the latter -- "you rented a space" is getting a lot of replays over here

IKR OTM.

Reminds me that I need to check in on Larry Kramer.

Cristina>>Grace Jones

Reverse that.

Let's hear Grace Jones' version of "Is That All There Is?"

I have never once heard Grace Jones. Unless she did a duet with Ozzie?

I think this is the only duet they did:

grace>>>>>>>>>cristina, the latter's "ironic" take on disco puts me off (tho i do like the "is that all there is?" cover)

I like Christina's "Is That All There Is" a lot, but "Slave to the Rhythm" is unbeatable.

the 12" of SttR makes me wish i owned a yacht

Nightclubbing, for me, is both her peak and where I lose interest.

i always wish i owned a yacht

elmo, there's a fabulous thread where you could post that-- in fact there are a bunch of them. search 'cover connections.'

I will be in NYC for a bit before and after Xmas. No idea how busy I'll be, but perhaps something can be arranged.

I know, right? thanks for your input above re: my email. yeah i don't know why liberals internalize self-loathing so much

not that they should externalize it. i'm not phrasing any of this correctly. but i know what you meant

jean-paul goude designed both the grace and cristina covers btw (he and grace have a kid but never got married):

http://www.hastedhunt.com/photos.php?a=jean-paul_goude&i=56877

"a bit before and after Xmas" = when i likely won't be in nyc, sadly

where ya off to?

Where are you going? xpost

home (nj). leaving 23rd or so, coming back i guess the 28th or thereabouts. can only be at home for so long before i get itchy.

word

(where in NJ? i'm sure i've asked you already but whatevs.)

I'll be in a few days before the 23rd but yes.

super, I'll be here except probably 24th-26th.

i'm from north-centralish jersey (cranford)

nothing too remarkable. except tofutti's HQs. and some scenes from far from heaven were shot there

i have a soft spot for the jers. i have a few family + friends from there and i spent time in orange as a kid. ::shrugs::

i think i get less and less nostalgic for it by the year, especially now that hardly any of my good friends from HS still live there

i love the oranges, and paterson. otherwise, not too fond of jersey. but i'm also from philly, so south jersey pricks are always drunkenly carousing about the city.

anyway, i'll be in new york from the 30th or so until the 4th or so? FUN TIMES?

i smell trouble!!

it's Joop Homme, bitch.

lols, i actually go au naturel.

loool i have a bottle of Joop -- it was Ryan's from HS. he cringes when i put it on but every once in a while it's kind of fun

but ugh i need a new scent. i'm thinking burberry or CK

meeting tabes & Sur simultaneously would be intimidating ;)

i dunno, i'm like 5'8" and weigh next to nothing? and i'm very polite.

^^^truth

hahaha and i'm a total wackjob. fun times!

i'll def. be around 30th onward and wouldd be down for hangouts if it can be arranged

I'll be gone by then, but it's fine, meet up without me!

i would love a meet-up! let's do arrangements closer to the time.

also, i suggested on the 'Milk' thread that the new gayilx thread (for the new year!) be called ILX Silly Old Faggots Club, or something to that degree.

90210! disco-dancing with friend returned from Berlin! the night awaits.

Bitch I'm the bomb like tick. tick.

Why wait to start a new thread until next year. Fall is beyond over.

i suggested on the 'Milk' thread that the new gayilx thread (for the new year!) be called ILX Silly Old Faggots Club

Please let's not call it that, esp. in the same breath as Harvey Milk.

Your wish is my command.

Refer all foot traffic to the new thread.