The Book Group: Classic or Dud?

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C4, Fridays, one episode so far. I can't quite make up my mind whether this programme is good or bad. For 15 minutes I was very keen - then the second half seemed to throw its hard-earned lead away in a blitz of unsubtlety. (Kamikaze TV, Des.) Anyone else seen it?

― the pinefox, Saturday, 13 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I saw it, and I liked it. Not everything about it, BUT - and this is a big but, if I knew more about HTML I'd make it literally a big but, but I don't - the first few episodes of a new sitcom, when we don't know the characters or the scenario, we're waiting to be impressed, we haven't had our disbelief suspended, are almost always a disappointment. There is no way the characters etc. can be well- rounded or confident in themselves - realistically, this won't happen until 4 or 5 episodes in, at best. Hindsight is a lazy tool when it comes to our view of Father Ted, Fawlty Towers, Blackadder or whatever, but I bet my right buttock that people had similar ambiguous views when they debuted.

― Mark C, Saturday, 13 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Aargh. I was going to watch it then got called to work and forgot to tape. It looks as you describe from the trailers - could be good but somehow you suspect it isn't.

― Ally C, Saturday, 13 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

It seemed very static and staid, but that could be cos a) it was all character-establishment b) it was about a crowd of people who didn't know each other at all. It felt like a stage play adapted for the telly, with having just the one set.

― Caitlin, Saturday, 13 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I reckon I will probably watch two episodes and then give up...I think it's that sorta show!

― jel --, Saturday, 13 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

and I really fancied the American woman. Ooh, uptight straight-laced girls who want a good fucking - can't beat 'em :-)

― Mark C, Saturday, 13 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I watched it because I was keen to see how they would stereotype the American girl.

That being said, I was pretty disappointed that she is a freak - obviously a lot more weird than just depressed, and that she will promote a lot of negative american stereotypes (abruptness, lack of social graces/ rudeness, ignorance of english culture).

So the only bits of the American her that contributed accurately to the dialogue were the following:

1. Being impressed by the toilet handle 2. Being amazed at the amount of tea - and suprised that if someone wanted a drink, that they wouldn't just ask for it.

The parts of dialogue that were supposed to be American living in a different country bits but weren't were: 1. Being really rude about lack of elevator access when the wheelchair guy came in 2. Freaking out about the cigarrete (and being rude) 3. Asking the other chick if she had an eating disorder (and beig rude) 4. Saying that everyone says to her, "I've been to Disney land" (no one has ever said this to me).

So for all her freaky weirdness "Do you want to have sex" etc. I really think that she may as well have been played as a Scottish chick just as well. Which makes me wonder why they had to make it an American chick.

Not that I really care, but it just bugs me a little bit.

And admittedly the stereotypes of the flakey Swedes, dumb Scot, English ponce were all irritating to me.

I will fill in the gap between Father Ted and Frasier w/ something else next week. :)

― marianna, Saturday, 13 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

But it WILL get better, Marianna - honestly, give it a chance and you might see more positives. I'm sorry I'm pressing my pont here - it could just be because I'm trying to basically create a TV series on my own at the moment, and I'm acutely aware that it will have teething problems which, using the same criteria, may well refelect badly on me. Ah well, the world has a short attention span...

― Mark C, Saturday, 13 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I think the comparisons with broader comedy such as Fawlty Towers is unproductive. This is much more of a character piece, just a bunch of people sitting around talking. Slapstick and very broad caricature is quick, character is slow. There were some fresh bits of writing, and the American's reaction to rejection at the end was interestingly dark and extreme.

I was a member of a book group once, and this is considerably less realistic than, well, anything ever. Buffy is a more accurate portrayal of my teen years than this is of my book group activities. Anyway, I have no idea if it's going to get good, or if there are real depths in any of the characters, but there was enough for me to give it another episode or two.

― Martin Skidmore, Saturday, 13 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Hey, since when have Scots been stereotyped as being dumb, Marianna?! Or is it just because you met me recently?

― Ally C, Saturday, 13 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

You hit the mark there! No.. actually, this then must be misinformation gathered from my significant other.

― Marianna, Saturday, 13 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

"Buffy is a more accurate portrayal of my teen years"

― !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?, Saturday, 13 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Check it out.

(Totally safe to click at work)

― Ramosi, Saturday, 13 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

But

― Brave Ulysses, Saturday, 13 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Ramosi - wow! Those chaps LOOKED American to me, but they fought with fists! How utterly cool!

― Brave Ulysses, Saturday, 13 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

nine months pass...

so series 2...

― zemko (bob), Friday, 31 January 2003 23:48 (twenty-two years ago)

first series great. second series=> missed the first two episodes as I've been on ILXOR but I shall make sure i catch the repeat (I think its on wednesday). you bob?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 31 January 2003 23:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I note that I never did respond to Mark's marks of astonishment above. Quite early in my time here. I think I just meant that I believed all of the people in Buffy, as the kind of people you'd meet in school, whereas no one in the Book Group seemed to bear any resemblance to anyone in the book group I attended.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 31 January 2003 23:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, and all the demons and vampires I killed, obv.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 31 January 2003 23:56 (twenty-two years ago)

i can't really decided with this one, but i keep getting drawn in so i guess i like it huh. 2nd series is going more for the obv shock jokes but there are still little flashes of endearing miscellany

― zemko (bob), Saturday, 1 February 2003 00:01 (twenty-two years ago)

it is being very skilfully written however, maybe not plotwise (pretty soapy perhaps deliberately so) but viciously undercutting any signs of settled character

― zemko (bob), Saturday, 1 February 2003 00:05 (twenty-two years ago)

ok tired old gender blah but it's also one of the few shows written by a woman, i think that's interesting

― zemko (bob), Saturday, 1 February 2003 00:09 (twenty-two years ago)

shall i trot out the old "womblike swim nausea"?

― zemko (bob), Saturday, 1 February 2003 00:11 (twenty-two years ago)

nah

― zemko (bob), Saturday, 1 February 2003 00:11 (twenty-two years ago)

The only thing I make a point of watching on TV right now.

― Tag, Saturday, 1 February 2003 00:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Rab = most classic thing on TV at the moment?

"Chicki chicki?"
"Chicki chicki?"
"Chicki chicki?"
"Bala"

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 1 February 2003 12:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I am not sure about it either but seeing as I have only ever seen the one episode (though *twice*) I may be missing something. The one I saw had this dreadfully unsubtle scene with some guy telling the girl he was seeing that some people were born to be writers (poss. him, def. not her) and the rest should give up, but that it didn't matter cause she was so pretty.

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 1 February 2003 12:52 (twenty-two years ago)

The bit where Rab turned to the camera and said "I fucking hate Scotland." was really sad, I thought. (It was also funny in that it reminded me of Momus and to think weegie Rab and Scotland's Monster have something in common.)

― Cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 1 February 2003 13:03 (twenty-two years ago)

N- yeah that was that guy was telling the footballer's wife that. he read a lot/clever but he was an idiot.

I think you had to see at least 2/3 episodes of the last series to fully 'get' what was good abt it.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 1 February 2003 13:15 (twenty-two years ago)

"ever heard of rioja? didn't think so boys"

i thought that was great scene, the show has a way with cliches

― zemko (bob), Saturday, 1 February 2003 13:24 (twenty-two years ago)

re momus hahahahahaha

― zemko (bob), Saturday, 1 February 2003 13:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I still think it's terrible, haven't seen any of it since the second episode of the first series.

― jel -- (jel), Saturday, 1 February 2003 13:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Ah, the first thing I ever subtitled - it'll always have a place in my heart for that (cf. Pam and Mission: Impossible 2) - though I never did see more than those first two episodes from series one.

I, for one, *am* shocked at just how saucy this new series is. Much more impressed than Marianna above with the Yank exchanges (especially now Anne Dudek has been joined by Karen Kilgariff), but I think they dispensed with the more clunkingly obvious signifiers of Claire's bafflement at Brit cultural norms pretty quick-like. I'm really taken with James Lance's transformation into Lachlan - even the vocal timbre is different.

It's pretty funny stuff, but - *ugh* - you couldn't watch it with your Mum, could you? Actually, Mark C probably could.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Saturday, 1 February 2003 14:13 (twenty-two years ago)

And I still love it. A lot. Best thing on TV at the moment, easily (IMHO), and each episode has genuinely startling, unsettling moments. Rab is turning into a classic character, which is pretty great writing. I love it. Did I say that already?

I haven't watched it with my mum, no. I can forgive my slight crush on Anne Dudek because she looks *a lot* like my other half.

― Mark C (Mark C), Saturday, 1 February 2003 14:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Regarding the American characters being stereotypically "foreign" and so on; I read recently that Annie Griffin, the series' creator/writer/director is American herself.

― caitlin (caitlin), Saturday, 1 February 2003 15:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought that the centre of it, the American woman, was maybe the most rounded character in it. The Swedish wives are the least rounded and convincing, I think.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 1 February 2003 15:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, I get the feeling sometimes that the European wives (one of them's Dutch, I think) were just added in to make up the numbers originally. Hopefully they will shine more as characters later in this series, though, with the pregnancy storyline.

― caitlin (caitlin), Saturday, 1 February 2003 15:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I am finding the guy in the wheelchair, who for a bit seemed the most sympathetic character, verging on the annoying. It wouldn't be a surprise at all for the writer to purposefully make a disabled character (does anyone say "dysabled" these days? When I was at university we had to, for reasons lost in the mists of time) into an unsympathetic type. I may be simply overreacting, though.

― Mark C (Mark C), Saturday, 1 February 2003 16:25 (twenty-two years ago)

He seems to have become much dimmer this series, I think. Perhaps it's supposed to be just lust - blood moving from brain to dick or something.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 1 February 2003 16:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Erm. I actually did watch the entirety of the first season and the start of the season 2. The 'american exchanges' became less stressed after the first episode anyway as Mike says, and things seemed to settle in a bit as mark predicted. Missed this week's episode though, so I'll have to catch the re-run tomorrow?

― marianna, Saturday, 1 February 2003 21:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I've managed to miss the first two episodes from the second series as I have been out both Friday nights and haven't had the foresight to set the video. Does anyone know when the (presumably) mid-week repeat is on?

― Lara (Lara), Saturday, 1 February 2003 21:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Monday night, 11.05.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 2 February 2003 10:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I watched the episode where the bloke got bummed in Spain, I thought it was very good. I certainly couldn't watch it with my mum though. I think the squirm factor works quite well. I also like the fact that it gives the impression people who read books are always having it off right left and centre.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Sunday, 2 February 2003 11:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Aren't you, Peter?

― Mark C (Mark C), Sunday, 2 February 2003 11:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Incidentally, the "repeat" is apparently cut slightly differently; it's allowed to have more swearing as it's on 90 minutes later.

― caitlin (caitlin), Sunday, 2 February 2003 13:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Carrumba! Why would they go to all the effort?

― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 2 February 2003 13:59 (twenty-two years ago)

eight years pass...

I've been watching this again on 4OD and it really is brilliant.

― ha ha ha ha jack my swag (boxedjoy), Monday, 22 August 2011 19:22 (fourteen years ago)

two months pass...

Anne Dudek has not aged in any way in 10 years. When The Office started in the US I thought she was Pam.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQanNZVEUfM

― Ned Trifle X, Tuesday, 8 November 2011 11:21 (thirteen years ago)

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