Botox injections - C or D?

HI DR NICK!

damn. damn damn damn.

"Botox on the other HAND is just more pharmaceutical insecure ridiculousness which is always DUD"

(on reflection, my loathing of needles might have something to do with my strong reaction)

People who willingly inject posion into their skin to fight off the inevitable and the universal need to get a *real* life.

Oh and while the Cat Woman has obviously had tons of scary reconstructive surgery I'm sure there's some botox somewhere in that train wreck along with maybe some hantavirus and salmonella.

This question strikes a nerve because beauty products are all about judgement - primarily judgement of oneself ("I want to look good") but a judgement based on an accepted standard ("wrinkles look less 'good' than no wrinkles") established by others. So when other people start using an entirely different scale of judgement from the accepted one (i.e. "You are a silly vain person" rather than "You look much better") it particularly rankles. But the only reason they are saying that in the first place is because botox use is a flagrant challenge to *their* value system.

As for the dividing line, like everything else in this debate it's to do with the consensus of social acceptability. Saying "People who wash are vain" is less credible than saying "People who don't wash are disgusting and should look after themselves more", so washing is on one side of the line. You could imagine very few people saying "People who don't use botox are disgusting" so it's on the other side. Whether you want to cross that line is entirely up to you.

I thought botox was socially acceptable. The main reason I would be more prepared to have it done than, say, any other form of cosmetic surgery, (if money were no object) would be that I wouldn't fancy going under a general anaesthetic.

What about cosmetic dentistry? Our US chums are always dissing our dental beauty, but I doubt they all got perfect teeth naturally. Having a brace is, I've heard, not at all a pleasant experience and yet that's done totally routinely to teenagers, and I imagine that there aren't often genuine medical grounds to have it done.

Personally, if somebody I knew had botox I wouldn't be impressed but I wouldn't be horrified, and I'd judge whether they looked better or not for myself.

I wish I could concur with Emma that simply wanting to look good is, uh, simple, unfreighted by other concerns. But in my world it's always too tangled up with not just what looks good and how that's a consensus not an absolute, but with what passes for 'normal' or just okay, what you have to do/be to 'pass' both for individuals and in terms of social standards, which is a thornier problem wrt self-esteem and identity.

Since I was a teenager I have always been into such 'girlie' things as makeup & cosmetics & the whole beauty thing (not that it's had much effect, har har). And certainly for the past 5-7 years my friends have not given a toss about stuff like that, and have not noticed / been bothered by my dabblings with hair / nails / makeup / whatever, and nor has anyone else. I do this stuff to myself because I enjoy it, the whole pampering process, going into a salon or wherever looking & feeling rough & coming out transformed (in my eyes). And I have spent / wasted a lot of money on this stuff. And believe it or not, I am not a dumb bimbo and it is totally MY choice.

Anyway for what it's worth I think spending on beauty products and treatments isn't something people should be judged on, which is why I wouldnt care either way re. botox.

But I suppose those of us with tattoos etc are in no position to judge how people choose to alter their bodies.

In these, our tough times:

Two Newport Beach clinics have been scammed of wrinkle-erasing Botox treatments in recent weeks by a middle-aged woman now gone without a trace.

She may be setting new frown lines, though, if caught: The doctors' services she stole are valued at more than $2,000, a grand theft felony that could send her to jail, said Newport Beach Police Department spokesman Sgt. Evan Sailor.

A walk-in patient who called herself Miriam Flemings, described as 45 to 50 with brown hair and brown eyes, got three injections of Juvederm and one of Botox at the office of Dr. Jon Glazer on Jan. 6, then slipped out of the clinic without paying.

On Feb. 23, a woman claiming to be a Miriam Gombar had an appointment at the Nulooks Med-Spa, ducking out after getting her Botox shots on the pretext of making a phone call.

It's believed that the two Miriams are the same person.

Glazer's office retained gauze and syringes containing blood traces that could help identify the woman through DNA matching if she is already in law enforcement records or is arrested later, Sailor said.

The police department has warned doctors in the affluent community to protect against repeat offenses by the Botox Bandit by requiring payment in advance.

In the meantime, they have no leads to follow, said Sgt. Steve Burdette: "She just ran off, expressionless."