Does someone talking frankly about tragedy or adversity make you respect them more? Should it?

After watching Biden last night it struck me that this may be the case. I automatically felt he had dealt with difficult times and so, deserved a certain respect, for the steely way he used these to discuss other issues, the sense he had learned from them.

Yet the tragedy was just an accident, is it right to actually have respect for someone cos of this or is it just a coercive societal feeling?

It reminded me that sometimes if I discuss really bad times/illness from the last few years with people I notice them acting respectful or almost seeming impressed, but again I think, 'well anyone would have done the same.' Is there something about rationalising tragedy that really appeals to humans? Or is that seen as a sign of strength?

It was when he started talking about the Aberfan disaster, I smelt a rat.

Well, it's weird how anyone who obeys the natural human impulse to endure through hardship is "brave". But maybe this is rightful payment for having suffered hardship in the first place.

Going through hardships doesn't actually make people respect you more.

Handling them well/responsibly makes people respect you more.

People lose respect for you if you go through hardship and blow it badly in a way that their opinion would have been unaffected had you not been through anything at all.

what do you mean by 'endure' louis

Maybe it's that the people we NOTICE being all brave and admirable and whatever, are the ones who got the "right" or useful kind of messages from their hardship and it increases their overall appeal.

I don't know if I'd say I respect them more, since bad things do happen to everyone regardless, but it might make me more...trusting? Or willing to leave decisions, actions, in their hands because I believe their judgment has been tested. Or something.

Ahh basically Kate beat me there.

Endure = not give in and basically off yourself/refuse to do anything without external help/become histrionic

I dunno, I think he's used the right word,'endure'. (xpost)

I was verray poorly when I was 25, down to 8 stone due to intestinal troubles. For all that it was a drag and being in hospital and so forth, I often thought it was tougher for the epeople around me to 'endure' what was going on.

And then I got the operation, and got better over years, and now all is good.

Yeah I agree with Kate's answer. It's funny tho, like being able to neutrally discuss hardship in a way that sort of tells people something about it or about life, that seems to prompt respect. But it shouldn't be that "hard" as such. The brain kinda gets you through, eventually.

x-post...when I was in the middle of illness/debilitation, people didn't really treat it with respect or even understand. but when it's done and it might come up somehow, and you're talking about it as past tense, people really seem interested. I guess raw currently felt emotion is kinda weird for people to deal with too.

There's that feeling of "this person might die" and that kind of weirds people out.

I went back one time to a place I used to work at, and was told that one of the people I knew well (who was there) was terminal. That day, he was perfectly fine and healthy. Now, I've lost touch with them all, and don't know.

It's not really about respecting someone's specific tragedy-handling skills, I don't think, as much as we're intrigued with someone who we think has SEEN THE ENEMY, has been tested, knows something about themselves and their limits that we don't know yet.

I dunno. It's probably over-rated. On the other hand I wouldn't go back to being as dizzy and nervous and insecure as I was before I got a great whacking dose of perspective, so maybe it's not over-rated after all.

i think it depends on whether it's a feature in every conversation you have with them, or how it comes up? whether or not hardships they've had are a major part of the way someone 'defines' themself, if you like. if they've gotten over tough times without needing that fact to be the second thing they say about themselves, it's a lot easier for me to admire that.

I've endured some hard times pretty stoicly in the past year, if I say so myself, and I don't think in my case my reaction comes from some great inner strength, but from the fact that you just can't be worried and miserable 100% of the time, something in the brain takes over and pushes you forward. Ongoing bad situations become normalised remarkably quickly. I'm sure there's a degree of denial involved, and I think to some extent there has to be.

The whole thing has made me a great deal less sympathetic to people who collapse int blubbering wrecks at the first sign of hardship, I have to say.

It's not really about respecting someone's specific tragedy-handling skills, I don't think, as much as we're intrigued with someone who we think has SEEN THE ENEMY, has been tested, knows something about themselves and their limits that we don't know yet.

I dunno. It's probably over-rated. On the other hand I wouldn't go back to being as dizzy and nervous and insecure as I was before I got a great whacking dose of perspective, so maybe it's not over-rated after all.

Yeah agree entirely with this, 100 per cent. I guess maybe really bad times do force you to learn about yourself in different ways that can be interesting above and beyond the bad times themselves.

darragh you're prob right but what is sad is that if someone is constantly bringing something up they probably aren't really over it. but that is definitely when the natural impulse is to switch off.

Speaking purely rationally, grief and suffering are something that almost everyone will go through at some point in life, not a badge of honour. But we're not purely rational. I think that feeling of respect is useful, because the way other people cope with grief/loss/illness is an example to us, because the rest of us will surely go through something similar at some point.

It's better to respect someone in these situations, maybe even admire them, even if they do fall apart and do things that would otherwise ruin your impression of them. Because you never know how hard something is to cope with until you're forced to cope with it. Empathy is a good thing. Perspective is too.

I'm still kinda waiting for the thing that makes me stop being dizzy and nervous and insecure?

So far nothing's really done anything about that.

Do all babies/toddlers who die deserve to be "bright and bouncy"?

what?

Haha, note that I said as dizzy and etc. I'm still plenty neurotic, I just occasionally remember that nobody cares except me ...and if they do, fuck 'em.

After watching Biden last night it struck me that this may be the case. I automatically felt he had dealt with difficult times and so, deserved a certain respect, for the steely way he used these to discuss other issues, the sense he had learned from them.

is this an across-the-board response to anyone discussing their difficult times in a steely way? would you have posted something similar if eg sarah palin had talked about the experience of deciding to have a down syndrome kid and how that informed her views on certain issues? i think as with many other things it depends how receptive you are to the person in the first place.

The whole thing has made me a great deal less sympathetic to people who collapse int blubbering wrecks at the first sign of hardship, I have to say.

idk in times of hardship i think people are entitled to react how they need to, really. i tend to respect people who survive bad shit and are able to get back to normal, so to speak, but how they survive is their business (and it doesn't imply a lack of respect for people who are unable to pull through for whatever reason either)

i once worked in the benefits department of a major public institution. we were tinkering with the health insurance options and had picked up a contract with a new company that offered a slightly different fee and payout structure.

in the presentation the company gave to us, the guy told a story about the birth of his first child and how it had some kind of congenital joint problem that had to be fixed surgically and he got choked up, but then composed himself and segued right into the importance of the fee and payout structure of his health plan.

i didn't really respect him any more than i would've otherwise.

People who haven't been tested by adversity are actually rather rare. Kate was otm about how you handle it being the real question.

Also, prolonged emotional distress triggered by insoluable adverse conditions (this would apply to McCain's POW experience) can induce personality traits that are not always desirable. This is no one's fault when it happens, but tragedy does not always improve people, even when they have done their best to cope with it.

Ah defs you respect them more if they haven't defined their whole identity around it.

ie like "Blah blah blah you think you can talk I got kicked outta my house at age 16 and I have 17 kids AND I work 62 hours a week and I have fibromyalgia and and and grumble grumble grumble." I mean them's some hard knocks, I'm not denying, but fuck man, does that have to be your standard response to anything? (I have worked with a lot of people like this.)

Blah blah blah you think you can talk I got kicked outta my house at age 16 and I have 17 kids AND I work 62 hours a week and I have fibromyalgia and and and grumble grumble grumble

today, back at work after a bank holiday drink weekend, i am resolute that this will actually be my standard response to anything.

forgot about this resolution. too late now :(