Site New Answers Search Boards ILM ILE Answers New Question New Questions New Poll Blog View Register Login

Arrogance

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
A while ago I decided that of all the vices, arrogance was the most indefensible. Most other bad character traits have a positive flip side but arrogance and esp. self-satisfaction just seem all wrong. I said this to some friends and they said 'No - the good flip side is self-confidence'. Maybe they were right. Also, one of them said they found arrogant men attractive. People suck etc.

What do you think of it? Maybe there's good arrogance and bad arrogance and the latter is the one that covers smug self-satisfaction. How does being a know all fit into all

― N., Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Leaving off the ends of your posts doesn't make you look less arrogant, N.

― Tom, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Rhetorical thread ahoy!!!

― Pete, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i do not understand why some MENTALIST females find arrogant men attractive. there is a clear clear difference between arrogance and self confidence and a lot of self confidence does not necessarily equal arrogance. um. that's about it really.

― katie, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

..this?

― N., Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I was always warned at public school that going to public school bred arrogance, and I thought no way man, I'm not going to be arrogant. But I've ended up arrogant anyway, it's just I'm neurotic too. Yeah!

(That should get my interweb harem back up to strength, heh)

― Tom, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

isn't there a certain amount of arrogance involved in contributing to this board? generally, you are replying to a question that someone else has posed, but isn't it a bit arrogant to think that people will take notice of/care about what you think/say?

there is a difference between arrogance and confidence. most important of which being: confidence allows concessions to others while arrogance doesn't. there is no kindness in arrogance. therefore, arrogant men are cruddy. confident men are nice. but like diana king (oh lord have mercy, mercy, mercy but none of dem no move me move me move me etc.) i also like de Shy Guy.

― nickie, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

last post addressed to the universal you, not a personal attack on nick. and frankly i think it was downright arrogant to think that it was.

if he did.

― nickie, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

>isn't there a certain amount of arrogance involved in contributing to > this board?

Well this is the kind of arrogance that it totally interwoven with self-confidence. By the same token, all people who write or create art for an audience or even speak up in social situations are arrogant. Yes, you have to have belief that you have something to contribute. Too little, and you're a mouse. Too much and you're a pain in the a

― N., Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

ss?

rse?

― Pete, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

rse, on this occasion. I am now seeking recourse to a Mac with a version of IE that doesn't rudely interrupt me.

― N., Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Why would public school breed arrogance? Wouldn't that be private schools?

― Dare, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Public schools in the UK are private schools - they are so arrogant they have appropriated the very word "public".

― Tom, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

In the UK public schools are a subset of private schools. UK state schools are equivalent to US public schools.

― RickyT, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Explanation to confused non-UK people. The expression 'public school' predates the public/private state-funded/independently-financed dichotomy. A public school was public cause it was open to the public, unlike private tutors who taught you at home, which was the only other choice at the time. I hope that's right.

Nowadays, 'public school' is, as has been said, a subset of 'private schools'. It's a bit confusing, and many use the terms interchangably, but others reserve the term 'public school' for the more traditional, long established 'Ivy League' type ones, or for those that offer boarding facilities. We call taxation-funded ones 'state schools'.

― N., Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

This must be the 4 millionth time this has been explained on ILE. Do Americans NOT PAY ATTENTION or something? Pah.

― Emma, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Emma you would make a rubbish ambassador. And teacher. And mother.

― N., Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Huh? What was that? Wasn't paying attention.

― Dan Perry, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

But I will make a great dominatrix.

PAY ATTENTION DAN OR ELSE.

― Emma, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Would your mother prefer you to be a rich and successful sex trade worker or a poor but repectable PA?

― N., Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I ain't ever gonna be respectable.

― Emma, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

(14-year-old me had to figure that out in context while trying to understand a particularly unfunny NME supplement. "Public means private?" "Inflammable means flammable?")

― Bitsuh, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Took me a while too when younger. But Emma has now put the fear in me, and I will never ever forget anything ever again about the UK.

*pause*

So why are they called 'pounds,' anyway?

― Ned Raggett, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I read it and I don't fully understand it still!

― Maria, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

all people who write or create art for an audience or even speak up in social situations are arrogant.

am I the only one who finds this to be a ridiculously liberal definition of arrogance? anyone who thinks that they have the right to speak or write?

― fritz, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

arrogance isn't presuming that you have something to offer to the discussion, arrogance is presuming that your contribution is worth more than someone else's.

― fritz, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

But I've ended up arrogant anyway, it's just I'm neurotic too.

*applause* Tom, you're the first to openly admit it....

But, really, there's no excuse for being arrogant. Nowt wrong with being self-confident, but believing the world revolves around you, well....that's just wrong:>

― Nichole Graham, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

(Unless you live on the sun.)

― Bitsuh, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Hey, it's not like I'm arrogant or anything, but just wanted to say that there hasn't been a BMW made yet that doesn't fit the curvature of my ass perfectly.

― Joe, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Fritz. I was only trying to take Nickie's definition to its logical conclusion. I agree that that's an overly liberal interpretation of 'arrogance'.

But one can perhaps (this is what I was suggesting) treat 'arrogance' as a continuum (hurrah) with 'shy' at one end, 'self-confident' near the middle and 'arrogant' at the other. In the same way as 'heat' can be a neutral name for a scale that includes 'cold', 'warm' and 'hot' itself. Does that make sense? Anyway, I'm not sure I would go along with this, hence my original question. Is it a straightforward vice or is it just the overgrown expression of a neutral trai

― N., Wednesday, 24 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

T!

― mark s, Wednesday, 24 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Indeed. I'm very sorry about all this. I have to remember to hit the space bar and/or return a few times for it not to happen.

― N., Wednesday, 24 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Uh, where is the line between self-confidence and arrogance? I'm also confused how greed, gluttony, sloth, etc, have upsides. What are they?

― Alex in SF, Wednesday, 24 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I was hoping you meant 'neutral train'.

― Emma, Wednesday, 24 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Upside of greed = ambition. Upside of gluttony = healthy appetite. Upside of sloth = being relaxed.

― Emma, Wednesday, 24 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Can't that same logic work with arrogance. Upside of arrogance=self- esteem.

― Alex in SF, Wednesday, 24 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Well exactly. That's what my friends said to me.

― N., Wednesday, 24 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes well I was kind of kidding. I mean I know I am the world's laziest person, however if I was trying to defend my laziness I might say I was relaxed. Ditto with gluttony. I can eat more than everyone else in the world put together but that's not painting myself in a good light so I say I have a healthy appetite. I do not think there is an up side to deluding yourself.

― Emma, Wednesday, 24 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

But being lazy=relaxed=laid back.

Saying someone is laid back can often be a compliment.

― Ronan, Wednesday, 24 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

But it can also not be e.g. laid back people are often late & not bothered about getting things done grrr.

― Emma, Wednesday, 24 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Are you saying that arrogance (or for that matter self-esteem) is actually just deluding oneself, Emma?

― Alex in SF, Wednesday, 24 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

No. I didn't realise I was being so opaque. What I am saying is that people e.g. me delude themselves into thinking their faults are qualities by describing them in different terms e.g an arrogant person refuses to admit to themselves that they are arrogant and deludes themselves into thinking they just have good self-esteem. Or a lazy person kids themself that they are laid back. Do you see? Obviously this is not always the case but it can be, innit?

― Emma, Wednesday, 24 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Definitely. I understand what you were saying now. I just didn't catch what you referring to before.

― Alex in SF, Wednesday, 24 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Ha ha, I am now kidding myself that my inability to explain things = sign of ultra intelligence.

― Emma, Wednesday, 24 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Loving cake=sign of intelligence! Definitely.

― Alex in SF, Wednesday, 24 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I'M BLOODY MARVELLOUS ME. Yay.

― Emma, Wednesday, 24 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I do not think there is an up side to deluding yourself

Self esteem!

― Graham, Wednesday, 24 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Self esteem!

You don't need to delude yourself to have that. I have mucho quantities....

Emma: Nowt wrong in celebrating fabulousness....but say it louder; we couldn't hear ya....

― Nichole Graham, Thursday, 25 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

arrogant men aren't attractive. but arrogant women are. solution: get a sex change, n.

― di, Thursday, 25 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Di fancies Emma la la.

N.B. I am not arrogant.

― N., Saturday, 27 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

is emma arrogant? i thought she was just narcissistic. which for the record is just as sexy.

― di, Saturday, 27 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

is that offensive? sorry if i am wrong or offended you emma.

― di, Saturday, 27 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Given that I have spent the last 2 days looking into every single reflective surface I pass I think this is a fair assessment.

― Emma, Monday, 29 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

one year passes...
I do not think there is an up side to deluding yourself

Possibly you avoid paralysing self-doubt. By self-doubt I don't mean self-esteem, I mean not seeing the flaw in everything you might do or say and thus always trying to think of a better way of doing it. Especially artistically.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 13 May 2003 22:28 (twenty-two years ago)

two months pass...
http://www.gaymexico.com.mx/articuloanterior/Brian.jpg

That is arrogance, and it is HOTT.
Arrogant boys are very fine because I am sick of dealing with my own crippling insecurity it can be nice to be told what to do.

ARROGANT RESTAURANTS ARE THE FUCKING BOMB, I heart them soo much.. that 'customer is always right' stuff drags on my nerves so much mostly because they are usually soooo wrong. And that we don't need your business thing so beats that condescending 'please come back, have a great day!' bs.
I know you don't care about my day, please don't pretend too for the sake of appearances.

― Nellie (nellskies), Sunday, 3 August 2003 03:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Joseph Epstein's Snobbery: The American Version to thread!!!

― Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Sunday, 3 August 2003 03:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Nellie you are so right! Arrogant men are a joy to play when you are clued-up female. Is this a post 1950s scenario? Don't wanna be a Diana Dors figure, hanging round giving succour at a shady transport cafe.

― kayT (kaytee), Sunday, 3 August 2003 18:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Arrogance and narcissism are underrated qualitites. Give me either over humility or, choke, empathy any day.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Sunday, 3 August 2003 21:45 (twenty-two years ago)

arrogance is totally lame. except when its me being arrogant

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Sunday, 3 August 2003 21:51 (twenty-two years ago)

ARROGANT RESTAURANTS ARE THE FUCKING BOMB

Come to mine, I specialise in insulting customers without them even realising I've done it.

― Matt (Matt), Sunday, 3 August 2003 22:00 (twenty-two years ago)

*rereads own message and hmms* don't get me wrong, sometimes it's just nice to deal with people who have confidence ya know? male or female. I guess I'm just sick of guessing and re-guessing ya know?... *grrrs*

― Nellie (nellskies), Monday, 4 August 2003 00:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha! what I meant to say is we have a healthy amount of cyncicism as regards "the customer is always right" to the point of when they complain about food and are wrong, telling them so. "This meat is tough" "It's not, you're just trying to get a free meal" and so forth. If they're right, they're right, and fair enough, but if they're not, fuck 'em. we generally find that the people who complain (and, crucially, keep complaining AFTER we've apologised if at fault) are shit-spending, no-tipping, joyless, more trouble than they're worth arseholes who we really don't want through the doors at all.

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 4 August 2003 00:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Last night a friend told me I was in the top 0.05% of arrogant motherfuckers on earth. He said he meant it as a compliment - "You're at the top of your game!" Really though I just talk a lot of smack.

― Millar (Millar), Monday, 4 August 2003 00:27 (twenty-two years ago)

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/imagesdeparfums/Chanel/TN_Egoiste89.JPG

― daria g (daria g), Monday, 4 August 2003 00:33 (twenty-two years ago)

zing!

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 4 August 2003 00:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Arrogant boys are very fine because I am sick of dealing with my own crippling insecurity it can be nice to be told what to do

sometimes it's just nice to deal with people who have confidence ya know? male or female.

you're not alone, of course. many, perhaps most, women feel the same way. as someone who's prejudiced by that preference, i like to find hypocrisy in it - if you want to render it broadly, it states that many women are uninterested in challenging gender roles where the challenge doesn't redound to their benefit, or that feminism doesn't bring any responsbilities. but i'll admit that that's a self-pitying perspective - maybe a better way to look at it is that women don't step up as much because many men don't demand that they do.

of course, America is filled with people thirsting to be told what to do. ergo, flash mobs, TRL, evangelism, George W. Bush.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 4 August 2003 00:42 (twenty-two years ago)

haha - "Arrogance and narcissism are underrated qualitites. Give me either over humility or, choke, empathy any day." brought to you by the comittee to reelect the president

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Monday, 4 August 2003 02:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Daria, I must have that aftershave now.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Monday, 4 August 2003 03:31 (twenty-two years ago)

True gabbneb, I actually despise the 'being told what to do' bit of my first post.. it's not what I meant to say. I step up a *lot* and just appreciate it when I don't have to.
Sometimes it's just nice to be looked after. I'm not sure that that's arrogance, it's more confidence in decision making.. *hard to split* though. I guess I just appreciate that people are willing to take responsibility for their actions.
I don't know if that makes sense.

― Nellie (nellskies), Monday, 4 August 2003 06:06 (twenty-two years ago)

i think i (and maybe other people are like this too) am selectively arrogant - in some areas of knowledge and with some people I can become unneccessarily impresed by my own authority. But i'm not sure if this is the natural flow-on from assuming others are beneath me or if that itself is the consequence of me thinking I'm good. In other contexts I'll be very meek and shy. Which fits my not terribly unified opinion of myself - both emotionally and contextually I fluctuate between thinking I'm the shit and thinking I'm dog shit.

I think open arrogance is better than partially-obscured patronising arrogance though.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 4 August 2003 08:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Chanel's been making that for years now, anyone remember the ads? all I recall are people yelling out the window of a fancy apartment, "EGOISTE!" it was top!

― daria g (daria g), Monday, 4 August 2003 16:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Last night a friend told me I was in the top 0.05% of arrogant motherfuckers on earth.

This is impossible when Dastoor exists.

― Ally (mlescaut), Monday, 4 August 2003 16:52 (twenty-two years ago)

nine months pass...
I am concerned that rather than becoming more confident lately I am actually becoming just more arrogant. How to define between the two?

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 17 May 2004 14:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Does it piss other people off? If yes = arrogance.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Monday, 17 May 2004 15:07 (twenty-one years ago)

not to my knowledge, but who knows?

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 17 May 2004 15:08 (twenty-one years ago)

More importantly, who cares? They're all as shit compared to you anyway, stevem.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Monday, 17 May 2004 15:09 (twenty-one years ago)

That was me being 'funny', btw.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Monday, 17 May 2004 15:10 (twenty-one years ago)

righto

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 17 May 2004 15:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Ha ha.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Monday, 17 May 2004 15:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I've been accused of being arrogant plenty of times, and it always smarts. I think it comes from the fact that I'm often either very quiet or very loud, especially around people I don't know particularly well. This is either construed as being haughty or full-of-yourself. I don't feel as if I'm a particularly confident or arrogant person, yet I must obviously project an aura of being - people often remark on how confident and/or arrogant I am. I don't feel it especially so I must conclude that, like most character traits, its something that other people choose/determine for you based on themselves as much as it is based on you.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Monday, 17 May 2004 15:20 (twenty-one years ago)

It's not that I don't want to talk to other people; sometimes I just don't want to talk.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Monday, 17 May 2004 15:21 (twenty-one years ago)

four years pass...

i've been thinking a lot about arrogance. i don't have any patience for it, or rather, for the demonstration of it. i'm certainly arrogant about certain things, but i don't like to show it. i know people who i always find speak as though they believe they're smarter than most everyone. and i get this feeling that they dislike it when i act silly, or childish. but in my mind, life is often silly. i think there's a time and a place for everything. i don't know why exactly, but it gets to me more than most characteristics. even though i know it shouldn't bother me as long as i am OK with things, it does. which is annoying.

― Surmounter, Friday, 30 January 2009 21:06 (sixteen years ago)

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/05/01/rick_martel1_4.jpg

― mayor jingleberries, Friday, 30 January 2009 23:58 (sixteen years ago)

Online dictionaries seem to define arrogant as overbearing, and overbearing as arrogant. Very suspicious. Does "you are arrogant"="you are self confident in a way I don't like'?

― M.V., Saturday, 31 January 2009 02:18 (sixteen years ago)


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.
Site New Answers Search Boards ILM ILE Answers New Question New Questions New Poll Blog View Register Login