October 15: Third presidential debate (Hofstra University – Long Island, New York)

a thread title we can stand.

my prediction: mccain will bring up ayers in the clumsiest, cringiest, failiest way.

He'll cough it out. "(cough)AYERS(cough), oh, excuse me."

"Kill that one"

I don't want to know the context but this McCain/Paul gif is yes

http://www.libertymaven.com/wp-content/uploads/paulownsmccain.gif

a MAIN STREET debate

who else will Bam promise to kill?

shut up

save that aggression for 2009 rationalizations, you may need it

Is there anyone he could promise to kill that would make you endorse him, Morbo? One of the Mets' relievers perhaps?

keep it local: AJ Pierzynski and all the Daleys?

Am I the only one who gets mildly offended when people take this position, condescendingly warning (e.g.) Democratic voters that OMG, certain ideals may not be magically and aggressively upheld by electable politicians? What kind of presumption of idiocy/naivete is involved in thinking there is any call whatsoever for you to inform people of that? (Isn't it possibly more naive to think this is some sort of significant point, despite many voting adults having got over around age 19 or so?) This bothers me...

― nabisco, Monday, October 13, 2008 4:01 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Better way of putting what I'm saying, maybe: whenever someone whose ideals lie slightly outside the consensus of mainstream parties says that he/she supports a mainstream-party candidate, people who share those ideals immediately start patronizing him/her by pointing out how that party is insufficiently committed to those ideals. This is silly: the voter never made any claim that the party was. The voter has simply made the sensible decision to vote for the candidate who seems the most useful tool in advancing those aims. The voter does not deserve to be presumed so clueless or credulous that he or she believes anything more than that.

― nabisco, Monday, October 13, 2008 4:11 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

A good argument except if you're throwing your vote away in a safe state.

what nabisco sez is why I voted for Bam in the primary. sort of.

what the fuck does that even mean, morbius uh xpost about the safe state vote throwing away thing

Q: why do you say such stupid shit tho like "OBAMA WANTS TO KILL PEOPLE."

schef I think he is saying "BOXCAR"

morbius will not be happy until this man is president:
http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/watchdog/blog/mrmets.jpg

i mean morbs i kind of agree with you, obama is totally not a "progressive" candidate and will most likely b/c of the financial crisis not be able to do half of the shit that he planned, so that's gonna suck but why you gotta say dumb shit like this.

who else will Bam promise to kill?

A pragmatic vote need not be a resigned vote.

voting is no substitute for cracking heads, tho. **sigh**

afaik the only person Obama has committed to killing is Bin Laden, which I am okay with. This idea that he's got a covert agenda to bomb Iran or whatever is just ridiculous.

hey morbius osama bin laden is a bad dude and people want him dead but hey if all you get from that is OMG OBAMA IS PANDERING TO THE ELECTORATE then you can be my cranky, obnoxious guest

i might vote for a 3rd party candidate in MN if O looks solid on election day. i wouldn't if i lived in OHq

also morbs please stop calling him BAM i mean we know you have a boner for mr. margera but let's leave our man barack out of your sordid skater fantasies

i voted for nader in virginia in 2000, for what that is worth

Even though I know it's all about the electoral college, it'd be nice to see Obama elected with a sizeable margin in the popular vote, too.

i might vote for a 3rd party candidate in MN if O looks solid on election day. i wouldn't if i lived in OHq

Remember when a bunch of Minnesotans did the same thing and accidentally elected a professional wrestler as governor?

A friend of mine up there says she went to work that day and was horrified that everyone in the office was going "Omigod, I did too! I didn't think anyone else would!"

i knew plenty of people that WANTED him to be gov

Even though I know it's all about the electoral college, it'd be nice to see Obama elected with a sizeable margin in the popular vote, too.

― jaymc, Tuesday, October 14, 2008 10:29 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark

I think Obama agrees with this, which is why he's dropping $5m on a 30 minute infomercial

I thought Minnesotans were too nice to say that they WANTED anything.

Oh no, we deny it thrice and then it magically turns into coffee and cinnamon buns.

....swedish coffee?

No, I really shouldn't, I just had a little lunch.

You sure?

I'm at a frustrating crossroads myself. I know too much history not to partially identify with Morbs and the Counterpunchers' electoral anomie; it's why I left the Democratic party a few years ago. But I liked Obama since his 2004 convention speech. He's clearly the most intelligent candidate of my lifetime. If he wins he might make a fine president, or he might make an awful one. Putting wingnuttery aside, I do suspect that a smart feller like Obama harbors imperial ambitions. For most presidents it's been their path to greatness (and infamy). The economic collapse has been the best thing for both candidates: neither will have the money to pursue war.

None of this is too well considered; I'm still sorting through my suspicions. The best I can hope for from an Obama adminstration, given this mess and the state in which the Bush administration has left the CIA, Department of Justice, FBI, and US attorney's office, is the most judicious caretaker presidency of our lifetime.

sounds about right

although I think there's some best-case scenario ideas in here

i sorta wish they'd get the CCC up and running again

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0dwN6hh8KF3ma/610x.jpg

I'm on the Sean Willentz side, Shakey.

So hoping for a moment that was an ashtray in the center.

mccain's screwed if he's going to do the ayers thing. it doesn't help that nothing high profile's happened since his play-fair intervention - he's bound by the narrative of rising against dirty unscrupulous attacks. it's such a weak claim, anyway - it gives obama the chance to compare their histories, say politicians aren't going to have long, distinguished careers without working with enemies, and rise above it in sweet presidential fashion.

what questions are you all hoping for? episode ii was totally a reduxe of episode i.

debate 1: foreign policy
debate 2: economy
debate 3: ???

debate 1: public demand economy hi-jack
debate 2: economy
debate 3: "domestic policy focus"

the daily show cut up on jmc's new speech versus old speech is gold, with the added bonus of overlaying two clips making it sound like there's a nineteen eighty-four echo on mccain's voice.

so this debate is going to be the gun control/abortion snoozefest?

http://www.slate.com/id/2202179/

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/1869/390pxwhatif34an1.jpg

I'd love to see the Dem's brief crushing majority go towards something useful. Here's hoping.

gun control = snoozefest with lots of reassuring and placating voters
repro rights = genuine microcosm of polar-opposite-attitudes involved, grossly neglected and hugely important, illustrative of gulf in tactics when raised during the preacher forum thing:

Q. At what point does a baby get human rights in your view?

MCCAIN: "At the moment of conception. I have a 25-year pro-life record in the Congress, in the Senate. And as president of the United States, I will be a pro-life president and this presidency will have pro-life policies. That's my commitment, that's my commitment to you."

OBAMA: "Well, I think that whether you are looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity, you know, is above my pay grade. But let me just speak more generally about the issue of abortion because this is something obviously the country wrestles with. One thing that I'm absolutely convinced of is there is a moral and ethical content to this issue. So I think that anybody who tries to deny the moral difficulties and gravity of the abortion issue I think is not paying attention. So that would be point number one. But point number two, I am pro-choice. I believe in Roe v. Wade and come to that conclusion not because I'm pro-abortion, but because ultimately I don't think women make these decisions casually. They wrestle with these things in profound ways. In consultation with their pastors or spouses or their doctors and their family members. And so for me, the goal right now should be -- and this is where I think we can find common ground -- and by the way I have now inserted this into the Democrat party platform -- is how do we reduce the number of abortions because the fact is that although we've had a president who is opposed to abortions over the last eight years, abortions have not gone down. ... I am in favor, for example, of limits on late term abortions if there is an exception for the mother's health. Now from the perspective of those who, you know, are pro-life, I think they would consider that inadequate. And I respect their views. I mean, one of the things that I've always said is that on this particular issue, if you believe that life begins at conception, then -- and you are consistent in that belief, then I can't argue with you on that because that is a core issue of faith for you. What I can do is say are there ways that we can work together to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies so that we actually are reducting the sense that women are seeking out abortions, and as an example of that, one of the things that I've talked about is how do we provide the resources that allow women to make the choice to keep a child. You know, have we given them the health care that they need. Have we given them the support services that they need. Have we given them the options of adoption that are necessary. That I think can make a genuine difference."

jmc's new speech

Please don't call him this.

haha

prob - i think palins given 5 interviews 3 of which were of the extreme softball variety w/gop hacks

Joe the Secretary of State?

http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/images/2008/10/16/barackvsmccain.jpg

hahahaha

http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/images/2008/10/16/mccain.jpg

not v funny

hahahahaha fuck you

hahahaha like you know what funny is hahahahaha

Those are EXTREMELY funny. Expression redolent of this guy:

http://texasholdemblogger.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/mr-yuk.jpg

Is there another thread on ILE that is actually about the debate, or are we stuck with this bullshit.

actually

OK time to talk about the issues

Is there another thread on ILE that is actually about the debate

Take it to I Love Politics, dude.

Not that I don't love world trade center jokes or anything.

u can start a serious discussion if u want - its ben happening sporadically throughout the thread - tho prob all the macros are a sign that people have pretty much said what they want to abt the debate

nice handle

In his annual predictions column, William Safire predicted that this presidential election would hinge on a debate gaffe. I'm guessing he was imagining a 20th century gaffe or zing like "You're no John Kennedy" instead of the 21st-century gaffe of mccaintongue.jpg.

Again, though, after years of Drudge's goofy Hillary photos and the Dean scream, we deserve a good laugh.

mccain's "which why do i go, lol tongue" was interesting because it read to me like someone who was tensed up for the entire time, totally a ball of nerves, and was suddenly just letting it out in a really goofy, relieved "well that's over with now" moment.

yeah, the guy is SO awkward

I really wish he'd gone full-throttle on his low-level plan to win every vote in America, person by person and group by group. Joe the Plumber. Parents of kids with autism. Violet in Jacksonville. People with prosthetic limbs. Mel from Littleton. People who experience debilitating carsickness. etc.

had he appealed directly ilxors i wouldve had to seriously consider supporting him

pointing at the camera, "you can excelsior that"
yeah for sure 2nd look

loool

"this one's for you, ilx" (sticks out tongue, bugs out eyes, does jazz hands)

ilx should begin grooming a candidate for 2012 now

"Just the other day, Senator Obama, a 4chan poster named Bob came up to you after an event and said he was seriously concerned about whose administration would make for better LOL macros"

we have a polling system, let's start running primaries

Shakey / Morbs '12

president of ilx

"Just the other day I met a mother whose uninsured child had died of a preventable disease, and I said to her ... that kid was pretty much a dick anyway."

"my friends, Mr Obama's plan to play bass through a guitar amp is simply reckless in light of our current economic conditions"

"my opponent surrounds himself with advisors from the powerful ringtone lobby"

fuck you guys, seriously. Sarah Palin is completely real. we've seen pics. she has emailed several ilxors.

ok the 1st 7 minutes of the cbs evening news was just devoted entirely to joe the plumber related news

Slow news day.

lol goole

dudes! just reading over these exchanges from the last half hour had me busting the hell up. props to all of you.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27221645/

Wurzelbacher also acknowledged that he had no specific plans for buying Newell’s business, saying he and Newell had simply talked about the idea from time to time. He might have difficulty making the purchase: Court records from his divorce show that Wurzelbacher made $40,000 in 2006.

Even if he did buy Newell Plumbing and Heating, Obama’s tax plan wouldn’t affect him. While Wurzelbacher told Obama that he would be taxed at a higher rate because the company grossed more than $250,000 a year, Ohio business records show the company’s estimated total annual revenue as only $100,000. Actual taxable income would be even less than that.

In any event, Obama’s tax plan specifies that the higher rate would apply only to income above the $250,000 threshold. Assuming Wurzelbacher’s income as owner somehow hit $280,000 — the top end of his supposition of the company’s revenue — only the extra $30,000 would be taxed at a higher rate.

aspiration is a killer especially if it is hollow

Americans have this problem where everybody thinks they are actually upper class.

no matter how much money they make or how stupid they are

Miccio:

It's great to finally give this archetype a name. Joe The Plumber: the guy who isn't rich now, but worries that if he somehow becomes rich, he won't enjoy it. Why? Because he'll pay 3 cents to the dollar more on what he makes over a quarter million.

hueg lols

That's too dead on the money to make me laugh!

http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/imgad?id=CMXdr9fuxf63NhCgARjCBDIIUGqwKtX_SlY

The fuck?

seriously miccio wherever you are -- god bless you for that.

Watching it on tape now.

After McCain throws the entire bucket of Ayers sleaze Obama's way, he concludes by saying "and my campaign is all about getting this economy back on track!"

and Obama actually LAUGHS, OUT LOUD. God

Also, this article is pure, spun gold:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27221645

Legally speaking, Wurzelbacher isn’t a plumber, because he isn’t licensed by Toledo, Lucas County or the state of Ohio. A representative of the Toledo Building Inspection Division said a plumber must be registered with the state and only then can apply for a city plumbing contractor’s license.

Wurzelbacher said he worked under the license held by his boss, Al Newell of Newell Plumbing and Heating Co. of Toledo. Newell is a licensed plumbing contractor in Toledo, records show. But anyone working under Newell should have a journeyman’s plumbing license or an apprenticeship license, officials said.

Building Inspection officials said Newell was responsible for making sure that anyone working under him was licensed. The Toledo Plumbing Board of Control may consider sanctions against Wurzelbacher or Newell, officials told NBC affiliate WNWO of Toledo.

“There’s a lot I’ve got to learn” about the plumbing business, Wurzelbacher said Thursday.

Wurzelbacher also acknowledged that he had no specific plans for buying Newell’s business, saying he and Newell had simply talked about the idea from time to time. He might have difficulty making the purchase: Court records from his divorce show that Wurzelbacher made $40,000 in 2006.

Even if he did buy Newell Plumbing and Heating, Obama’s tax plan wouldn’t affect him. While Wurzelbacher told Obama that he would be taxed at a higher rate because the company grossed more than $250,000 a year, Ohio business records show the company’s estimated total annual revenue as only $100,000. Actual taxable income would be even less than that.

I have not seen one person point this out:
Barack Obama - wore a flag pin.
John McCain - did not wear a flag pin.

I don't give a fuck because you don't have to wear a flag pin to be patriotic or be an American or be qualified to be elected president.

BUT, had the pins and lack of pins been reversed....oh boy.

Barack Obama - wore a flag pin.
John McCain - did not wear a flag pin.

same as debate #2 (and #1 i think?)