prescott: the class system and me

this was the best hour of factual television i've seen in a long, long time. i came away feeling very very warmly towards prescott and also his hilarious wife. the best bits were with the girls, who should have a show of their own i thought

what did other people think?

Saw the last few minutes of it with Prezza recounting his scuffle with Chumbawumba

his hilarious wife really was

i think its strength is that it's not trying to answer big questions like "why does class exist" or "how is it perpetuated" but instead is a psychological profile of prescott himself - yet because of who he is, and because of his own principles and obsessions, we see that these big questions are actually constitutive of him to some degree, so that just by following him around we learn more about possible answers to them

i thought the initial encounter with the girls was amazing, in that little hallway - they didn't go into a living room or even a kitchen but stood in this little hallway, half in and out of doors

other awesome lex-like moments:

"who is gordon brown?" and then she turns to the camera crew: "no really - who is he? who is gordon brown?"

she also seemed very firm that being a chav was something you DID and not something you ARE - which for her is probably true, but for those looking at her and using that word is probably not. prescott's aghastness when explained what "chav" mean, and who used it, was heartbreaking

I didn't have so much of a positive and emotional reaction to this. for me prescott did come off as having a little bit of a chip on his shoulder that he didn't seem to actually reflect upon or reassess rather than trotting out his (understandable) point of view and opinion - I don't mean this as a dismissal or condemnation but it doesn't help the cause. because it sort of seemed like a default setting but definitely a setting it was almost like pretension but not blatant pretension like his wife's begloved smoked salmon sandwich making and getting out the fancy china and profession of monarchistical tendencies

the girls were funny and depressing - "my dad votes for someone for a particular reason...who is it?...oh yeah the BNP" sitting next to her mixed race pal and they all have a chuckle at it and just the allusions to violence and aggression and their uninformed and disenfranchised...stuff

it wasn't a bad programme and I sympathise w/ prescott in a few ways

this sounds fascinating! i'm cross i missed it ... good, it's on iPlayer for another 11 days. oh! and it's a two-parter. bloody hell ...

the mixed-race girl is GORGEOUS

it is funny how she and the other one (who says her friends call her "pikey" sometimes though she'd chin a stranger who said it) are sort of shrinking violets next to the main girl, who's like this front-woman bulldog spokeswoman

pauline's pretensions are so interesting and complex - the way she fronts for the cameras and prescott immediately calls her out for it and she KNOWS we know it's all for show but doesn't mind and in fact sort of enjoys it .. and what a moment, standing outside the lord's mansion, when prescott's like i don't see why i should join the house of lords if i can't be involved in public service and public life; pauline replies that it would be an honour, something special - prescott immediately asks "would it make you feel better walking down the street?" and she's like "no" but the answer obviously is "yes"

Pauline Prescott was *fantastic* in this; the thing with the posh tea service that they "always used" was - as she pantomimed behind her husband - one massive wind-up. Also laughed when the girls were being interviewed after visiting the houses of Parliament, a boy watches for a bit too long and the main one's all KEEP LOOKING, BRUV then new shot and Prescott calls the trio charming.

i think Prescott should've taken the girls to get their hair done like his missus

i think Prescott should've taken the girls to get their hair done like his, missus

To channel Pauline's look they'll also be needing one of those Birds of a Feather jackets. That hair is shocking but it's actually real! Jet jet black might look dyed and then in the close-ups you see there's salt in the pepper, lots.

also, pauline, whispering to camera crew: "how do you tell a lord his zip's down? oh.. he's closed his jacket now, that's alright"

also the lord's wife calmly dismantling her husband's entire ontology behind his back to the cameras after the luncheon was over

funny when the girl said she was middle class and not working class because she doesn't work

"who IS gordon brown?"

this show is brilliant and I definitely feel warmer to john prescott & his wife (& colder to simon hoggart) on the back of it; I share some of conrad's reservations about prescott's unreflective maintenance of his chip and his naive optimism re: the girls but it's a fascinating look at both him and class;

tracer otm throughout esp. re:looking at JP helps give perspective on the bigger questions which wd almost seem unanswerable if asked outright & tht the girls shd have their own show

"naive optimism" isn't the right phrase but he definitely glosses here and gives them a free pass on the violence (even joining in to an extent with his (funny story) re:chumbawumba); mebbes I'm too cynical

JP otm re:the word "chav" btw; fuck tht shit

why should these girls have their own show?

they're very funny

i only saw the last 15-20 mins so didn't get that impression

oh i meant to watch this but didn't. maybe i will coax iplayer into working at some point. there was a vg interview w/prescott in the observer by the ever-excellent lynn barber - http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/oct/26/johnprescott-labour

I want to see this, as described!

this quote from the barber interview made me laugh: 'You can't call me working class,' says one unanswerably, 'Cos I don't work.'

once actually summoned the Times's Mary Ann Sieghart to his office so he could shout at her

Well done Prezza!

xpost

yeah, tht ws funny; doubly funny bcs they thought they were then therefore middle class!

I didn't watch this because Prescott going on about being still working class would have got on my nerves a bit (possibly due to that being a bit too close to home I admit)

I loved how both pauline and prescott love to pop each others bubbles of pomposity and prentension.

"I hope we don't come off like the hamiltons"

Was a great line.

hahah yes

i was also shouting at the TV during the luncheon at the lord's mansion (i keep calling him a lord but maybe he's an earl or something?), after that exquisitely uncomfortable moment when prescott asks him, point-blank, "so what class would you say you are?" and the guy suddenly turns into a yarn-ball of soft stammers, the whole table quietly waiting for him to answer, and he finally gets out "i suppose i would be what you would call upper class" or something and IMMEDIATELY launches into an exigesis on how it NEVER ENTERS HIS BRAIN that he actually is upper class, it simply isn't something that he self-identifies as, it's unimportant and so on - and i was like "EXACTLY, THAT'S THE POINT OF BEING UPPER-CLASS, YOU NEVER HAVE TO THINK ABOUT IT"

GRRRRRRR@"well what does that say about the non-private schools?"

JP otm tht wht ur buying w/private school is the network

oh god that moment was just jaw-droppingly EEEEEEEK

a parallel argument would be "if 1% of the population own 80% of the wealth - well, the other 99% of the population must be pretty crap!"

JP otm tht wht ur buying w/private school is the network

oh, come on: that depends on the type of private school. (i've not seen the show yet: maybe that's JP's point. but fuck me, i went to a fee-paying school in bloody blackpool and AHAHAHAH network? jesus HAHAHAHAH that's even funnier than the pinefox calling the BBC "noble").

i know right. where is my network!

I was wondering about that myself.

In which case I have failed to plug into my network. I would have thought that university and above all Business School/Law School was where you buy your networks nowadays.

watched both parts of this now. fascinating television: thanks, ILX, because i'd have gone out of my way to avoid it if it hadn't been for this thread.

i never thought i'd find myself actually quite liking ol' prezza. i think amanda blue's summary at the end of the second episode nailed it: prescott is fundamentally repping for the underdog, almost always -- but those early years of bug-eyed fury as an angry young union activist have distorted his perspective so much that he now confuses everything with class. it's his default position: "class oppression!" what was it he called daily mail hacks during his (80% justified, 20% come-on-lighten-up) rant about the tabloids? "the persecuting class?" that was incredibly telling.

also telling: during the whole public-school debate (about which i agree with him 100%, despite being a former private-school-boy), he brought up the notion of confidence. absolutely: fuck a network, confidence is the one thing i would say my own schooling gave me. it was also interesting that he talked about accent-as-class-signifier with the girl from rugby, while somehow managing not to mention the fact the estate kids from oxford each sounded like they had at least a small plum in their mouth. hmm.

major fucking lulz at the barney with the guy in the cafe in leicester, too. i rather hoped prescott would thump the twat.

anyway, yeh: i could have watched several more hours of that. his articulacy and self-deprecating jokiness couldn't really have been much less like the image he managed to cultivate as an MP.

i can't believe how much prezza is snorting like a pig

gf, I'm reliably informed that as the smoother-overer in chief btwn Blair/Brown, a certain amount of getting people to 'know what you mean' was what kept things going for so long. He also had to run interference on strange meetings with cultural-lefty figures that were not comfy identifying with a party figurehead like Blair, exciting though the run-up to 1997 was.

I enjoyed this tremendously.

Coupled with watching McCain's concession speech (to which the adjective "dignified" is now seemingly permanently attached) it did make me wonder - why can't these people just be themselves when in office, or running for office? Wouldn't they have attracted more respect, not to mention more votes?

I know it's an incredibly ingenuous question but it does seem to be a generalised disease; public figures who are fundamentally decent people yet feel compelled to do this pointless character acting when they're in a position to be of actual use to their society.

well, look how someone who's incapable of doing any sort of character acting, like gordon brown, gets treated for it.

Quite agree, Lex.

The Obamas of this world who are able to project an image and also have substance and genuine character are still very rare.

Whenever GB attempts A Public-Befriending Image (e.g. Ross/Brand) it is always a Public-Alienating Image.

When he puts his head down and gets on with sorting out the economy he gets much more respect.

Gordy on good form right now, apart from the B**** and R*** thing

Haven't watched this show, but I'm glad Prescott's getting some praise for a change

Suzy OTM really, maybe people forget how utterly key Prescott was to New Labour in the early days, also convincing bits of the party to get behind Blair once he'd won the leadership. I think the mistake was putting him in such a public position for so long but perhaps that was unavoidable.

major fucking lulz at the barney with the guy in the cafe in leicester,

lol The good people of Broughton Astley would not thank you for calling it Leicester. They have escaped! They live in the South! They have aspirations to live in Northamptonshire!

heheheh. in fairness: i meant to write leicestershire; lazy of me. but is that really how they think? hahah, a zillion boos for aspirational middle-englandshire wanks.

Think I posted somewhere else about a relative of mine who balks at calling Worcestershire part of the West Midlands as it associates them with Birmingham and insist they live in the South West Midlands instead.

I don't think anyone outwith the Midlands knows where anything in the Midlands is (apart from Birmingham) and what's actually in the Midlands and what isn't

xp
Yes that is how many of them think. I live on the outskirts of Leicester and a lot of the people will correct you if you say you live IN Leicester. They'll name the 'burb instead. And it's worse in the villages. Broughton Astley folk probably go to Market Harbourough shopping rather than "risk" going into Leicester where they will be EATEN BY ILLEGAL SOMALI PIRATES and THEN MUGGED BY KNIVE WEILDING CHAV GANGS. But hey, good, more room in the John Lewis cafe for me (not how aspirational I am too).

NOTE how aspirational, etc...

I only saw last night's ep. If private schools are so destructive there was no reflection on why his party was unable to address it. And for a guy so seemingly obsessed with class there weren't many thoughts on the 'underclass' lark.

It was good tv tho', funny and diverting and horrible at the same time.

All we really now have in class (disconnected from money, money is something else) terms is Posh and Not Posh. You can be skint and posh or minted and not-posh. But you are or you're not.

What is class disconnected from money? You fruity Brits are so weird. Here in red blooded good ole USA, class = money. A bum who comes across a billion dollars in a suitcase is automatically part of the American "upper class". Good times.

A bum who comes across a billion dollars in a suitcase is automatically part of the American "upper class"

here they either hand it in or burn it

I wish the US had a class system like the UK, then I'd be a somebody. yeah.

lord burt of stanton-upon-the-tone-arm

Burton Stanton is bit to close to Bufton Tufton for comfort

I see a long career on Loose Women stretching ahead for the wonderful Pauline...

i only caught the last half of this but i wonder why no one else is stating what was for me the most astounding revelation to come out of this programme:

jodie marsh is sharp as a tack!

no way

god i still haven't watched any of these. tracer i always thought it was k-obvious that j marsh (and k price too, even more so) were vermeer-sharp!! terrifyingly, formidably so

Pleased to see that the first programme is still on iplayer even now the second's been shown, because I've been meaning to watch these and not managed yet.

(Just saying in case anyone else was also kicking themselves for not getting round to the first in iplayer-time)

i believe this show benefits from "series stacking" in iplayer, where all episodes are available until the series finishes.. merlin is like this, and some others

skip to 9:16 to see a raindrop travelling backwards.

merlin??????

the tv show. called merlin. also, spooks does this.

spooks!!!!!!!!