WHICH IS MORALLY WORST: CHEATING OR KNOWINGLY BEING THE PERSON CHAETED ON WITH

um, cheating.

Cheating, definitely. I've been the other one a couple times and I felt that it was 100% the responsibility of the girl to square things.

i think it's like employment, a lot of people want to have something else lined up before they quit, hehehe.

depends if you know the person being cheated on (e.g. whether it's your best friend)

i think it's like employment, a lot of people want to have something else lined up before they quit, hehehe.

Yeah, a lot of people do it. Except, unlike employment, it's not especially easy to defend when you do that with a relationship.

That's not to say it's the worst thing that can be done, either. But it's hard to defend.

http://www.harrimantravelbooks.com/man_eating_wurst.JPG

^^morally wurst

Cheating, but being the other person when you know is pretty fucked up too.

Either way, you have no right to bitch when it becomes a huge great stressful painful clusterfuck of angry lovers and bitter friends.

this is fucked up and retarded any way u cut it, and a good lesson in life is "if ur trying to figure out who is being morally worse, you or the person youre doing activity X with, youre doing something wrong and stop doing it"

Sorry, if you're fuckin' someone who's got a 'real' relationship, you're a cheater too.

I've never been the "other guy," but I imagine the level of self deception involved in it is way over the USDA recommended amount. And always anchored by telling yourself, "Oh, this person I'm diddling isn't really happy in that other relationship, anyway." Which is actually irrelevant to what you're doing.

that's otm. i've never been 'the other guy' myself, but i have a friend who has this reoccurring pattern of getting involved with women who are in bad relationships and he always sees himself as this hero.

^^ i know a girl like this.
lately i think she's gotten better, but it's a weird moral stance to take.

always anchored by telling yourself, "Oh, this person I'm diddling isn't really happy in that other relationship, anyway."

v true. if they were really that unhappy they'd leave, ffs.

if they were really that unhappy they'd leave, ffs.

Well, no. They may in fact really be that unhappy, and not have the emotional ways and means to leave. Which makes them easy to get into bed. Which makes you a slimy little snake of a human being for taking advantage.

cheating is worse cos thats all breach of contracty

the non-tort of heartbreak, hah. or tortious interference with an apparently unfulfilling relationship. the other wo/man has no duty to cheatee, k?

With white being good and black being bad, there's grey area on this scale. But it's mostly in the charcoal range.

This very question was posed to the readers of Women's Health last month. Next time I make a trip to the bathroom I will do a little research and report back with results.

please. spare no detail.

the cheaters of ilx should step forward to tell their side of the story

I've never been the 'other man' but I have been the 'platonic male friend that's ended up being talked about with a relative degree of safety only for the boyfriend to assume that the girl is having an affair with but in fact it's with someone entirely different that she's not actually mentioned to him at all'

Is there a word for that?

"The unjustly pummeled"

I have cheated, but it was in long distance relationships that never had a chance of working if I was honest with myself, so I'm ... well, less hard on myself than I mightve been otherwise.

I think both scenarios here are pretty dodgy. I've been a cheater but not, as far as I'm aware anyway, the person getting into things with someone who had a gf. though there's been a few close calls, but I've always felt bad about it and backed off when I've been made aware of the situation.

Oh and the few times I've been a cad, I have *always* owned up to the person I did a number on. And then usually broken up with them too.

Actually, in both cases I never met the boyfriend.

I was the other guy four times off the reel. It wasn't pleasant, nor were any of these situations remotely my fault (I didn't even know I actually WAS an other guy until matters hade advanced somewhat in each case). Too much opprobrium being heaped on other guys here (and, by extension, other girls). Being the third party to someone else's car crash of a relationship is never the cheeriest vantage point.

Relationship Infidelity

^^^that girl was a grade-a creep imo

Well of course, if you're led into the situation deceptively (you think the person youre dating is single), thats not your fault in the slightest.

Forearmed with a person trying to hit on me who I know has a gf, even if they try the "waahh things arent working for us" thing on me - nah, not gonna happen sorry mate.

I didn't even know I actually WAS an other guy until matters had advanced somewhat

That changes things considerably, obv.

Also, I think Matt's right about making moral judgment -- avoid it as much as possible, always. Even an atheist should ask in this situation, What would Jesus do?

And yet... it's bad to do.

I could be the other guy for a very cute, slightly older woman right now (who is also my kind-of boss) - but I just can't see any way that it wouldn't make me a horrible person for going through with things. I couldn't even justify it as her being unhappy with her husband, because she's not.

Current plan: no more flirting, general avoidance for a while

been the other guy a few times....it's the person in the relationship's business to sort out their relationship. being the other person isn't amazing fun and you know it generally won't work out but if you don't know the bf/gf then I don't think it's very wrong, particularly if you don't go out of your way to make something happen.

I'm kinda thinking that "what's morally worse" is a bad question, because the internal thoughts of anyone involved in either side will be far more concerned with what's socially acceptable. Morals, you deal with alone late at night. That's between you, your pants, and God. And it's seldom (at first) what's really weighed when you are faced with these situations irl.

Haven't you people been watching Mad Men? ;)

Ha, no, I'm afraid not. To clarify I've been happily ensconced with the same woman for a good eight years now. Twelve on and off. I was her other man at one point. Not an enormous amount of fun at the time but it all seemed to work out okay.

So therefore the moral of the story is clearly commit infidelity, he might turn out to be the one. Go nuts, ladies.

Oh man, this is the story of my life!

Have been both of these, both were justified too...

I tell myself :-/

Women's Health

We polled 1,393 women and asked them to weigh in on cheating. The results might surprise you.

To Cheat, Or Not To Cheat?

Have you ever been romantically involved with a taken man?
Yes 46.3%
No 53.7%

Are there circumstances in which you think cheating with a taken man is justified?
Sure--if a woman wants a man, she should pursue him 9.2%
Yes--but only if he's planning on leaving his wife/girlfriend 11.5%
No--If a guy is taken, he's off-limits 79.2%

Do you think Angelina Jolie's continued popularity is an indication that the Other Woman is being stigmatized less now than in the past?
Yes 67.9% No 32.1%

If you had to be one or the other, who would you rather be?
The mistress 62.6%
The wife who gets cheated on 37.4%

When a guy cheats on his significant other, who is most at fault?
The guy, for breaking his promise 67%
The other woman, for tempting him 1.1%
The wife/girlfriend, for not making him happy 0.8%
All of the above 22.5%
None of the above--these things just happen 8.6%

Authoritative.

Do you think Angelina Jolie's continued popularity is an indication that the Other Woman is being stigmatized less now than in the past?
Yes 67.9%

rofl

there's something i really dislike about the phrase "the person cheated on with." it doesn't make SENSE. that said, max is otm.

co-cheatee, perhaps.

"interested party"

remorseless fuckmonster

midtable specialist

downstream fisherman

nightwatchman

change bowler

sloppy secondary

Ragnar: booker of hotel rooms

diaristic whirlwind

olympic fencer

second-half substitute

"drinks station"

haha xpost

utility back

parcel force

bits and pieces all-rounder

pin shitter

package thief

suspicious package

oh my god xpost i swear i wrote that before seeing

Last season's accessory

Elderly purse

I've been the other guy several times, always in a kind of heat-of-passion, fuck, we've got to stop doing this kind of way. Two of these situations, the main relationship was in that breaking up, getting back together thing, and all three of them, the relationship was completely over within a month of the cheating.

I've never felt great about it morally but I've also never really truly raked myself over the coals for it. Suspect I will get a lot of grief for it on this thread... I dunno. I'm probably the last person that should get into situations like this because I don't personally draw very firm lines around relationships, proclaim monogamy, etc. That said, I think there is no license in any relationship for deception - the crime of cheating isn't fooling around with other people, it's fooling around with other people when you've promised not to. I personally think that's a stupid promise to make, but if you've made it, it means something.

This post is about 50% devil's advocate and 50% me being self-serving and trying to convince myself I've done the best I could morally. For more of the latter, how about this: is cheating, at least sometimes, a way that people realize they're not supposed to be in this relationship? At one point with one of these girls I said "Dude, we can't do this, you just got back together with (guy) and you're trying to make it work, right?" "Whatever, we'll be broken up again like next week." That struck me as kind of unhealthy and the situation started to weird me out - but, I mean, okay:

Monogamy is a very specialized and arbitrary custom. It presumes a lot on the part of everybody involved and lots of pairs may just be doomed for all the reasons that relationships are doomed. It's quite easy to think when you first decide to go steady (or, typically, not decide but just kind of slide into it), that this will work out fine. When you find yourself making out with somebody else, and enjoying it, it's one giveaway that you're in the wrong relationship.

Related issue: is it also immoral to WANT to cheat?

Yes.

Dimitri Mascarenhas

not cheating on someone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cheating on someone for all parties involved

Jan Dahl Tomasson

Bomb disposal officer

Sorry. In all seriousness, When you find yourself making out with somebody else, and enjoying it, it's one giveaway that you're in the wrong relationship. is your clue, here.

"It was when I wound up on the end of a cock that I first realised I liked men"

Related issue: is it also immoral to WANT to cheat?

Only if you're Catholic.

cheating, at least sometimes, ((is)) a way that people realize they're not supposed to be in this relationship

That's true if it's really a thunderbolt, really an expression of passionate spontaneity, but it's lame as a rationalization in your own head beforehand. And who gets to make that call?

If you're the person being cheated on with, a lot depends on how well you know the cheatee. A total stranger=not your problem, entirely the cheater's fault, your best friend=you're arguably worse than the cheater.

I don't know how you could argue "worse."

A best friend it someone you should be able to rely on forever not to fuck you over, more so than a boyfriend or girlfriend.

Sounds like an argument you have with yourself, though. From the cheatee's POV, nobody looks too good.

Granted. But if my best mate were to sleep with a girlfriend, it's him I'd be angrier with and more hurt by, I think (luckily this is entirely hypothetical)

the difference for me is that i would want my best friend to be there for me after the breakup, so that would seem like the crueler loss. i'm not sure who i'd be more angry with, though, clearly both a boyfriend and a best friend would know each other's roles in my life and should know better. (fortunately for me this is hypothetical, too.)

xpost to chap: No, I see that. You're right.

The sexual relationship that's being breached also has varying degrees. Seems like (this is hypothetical for me, but not for everyone) if its a girl you've been going out with for a few months, you're horribly hurt by the best friend and (after a few weeks) merely disappointed that the girl wasn't what you'd hoped. But if your best friend is banging your wife, it's kind of a toss-up. That's when people of weak will and in possession of firearms commit multiple "crimes of passion."

And all the possible reactions are probably more gender-specific than I'm sure I want to think about or discuss.

I realise as well that this nebulous 'girlfriend' to which I refer is an entirely different beast to a wife/husband or serious long-term partner.

all this talk is making me want to cheat on someone

Related issue: is it also immoral to WANT to cheat?

Wanting something is never immoral. And even if it were, I think most people want to cheat on their partner at some point in their lives, if only briefly.

TBH I've never really understood why people are so fixated on monogamy; if it weren't for STDs, I wouldn't care much about it at all. I've never cheated on anyone, but that's mainly because I'm the type to keep my promises, not because I'm a believer in monogamy. If anything, I missed out on a couple relationships that would probably have been awesome -- or at least a vast improvement on what I was in at the time -- because I was determined not to be a cheater.

TBH I've never really understood why people are so fixated on monogamy

Also, what's up with religion? I mean that stuff never done made a bit of sense to me. Clothing too. Why can't we all just go around naked when it's too hot for clothes? Now me, I would never go w/o clothes because I don't want to offend others' sensibilities.

What are you on about? (Unless you're just riffing)

http://blogs.suntimes.com/scanners/sein.jpg

i was the other man once. i didn't feel bad about it at all at the time since it was with a woman I'd basically idolized and worshipped from the age of 16 and had considered completely unattainable, and she was in a terrible marriage. 13 years on though I regret it.

Cheating: horrible, horrible, horrible. Even if you are a third party and the person being cheated against is in another country, unaware that their partner is coupling with someone else. If it was something we were supposed to do, and feel good about it, we would call it something like 'socially acceptable switchover'.

I have never cheated in a relationship and I don't respect people who cheat as an excuse to leave one relationship for another; that bespeaks some massive insecurity that's not about 'going for what you want'. The one time I was used as a third party - and 'used' is the operative word here - it was easy for me to say FUCK OFF and so I did. I tend to see the relationships that form in the wake of such incidents through very cynical eyes, and wonder when the cheat assistant will get thrown over by her/his new partner.

So my situation has been clarified - this is a married-couple-getting-their-freak-on thing. I'm not 100% comfortable, but that's mostly because gossip in a small workplace (even one that's not my real workplace) can be such a bitch...

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Which is morally worst: Cheating on someone and getting caught, or cheating on someone and getting away with it?

You should only cheat if you won't get caught. It is morally indefensible to risk getting caught. Everyone cheats in the end, and if you love the person you're cheating on you should make sure they never know. (If you don't love them, you leave beforehand...)

Cheating on someone and actively trying to get caught

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

decisive

http://img.ffffound.com/static-data/assets/6/79a96a8c980ff668942eb4c3ea3e34c4f89acc9a_m.jpg

THANK YOU, SCIENCE