Scientology vs. Objectivism

Inspired by an argument with a Randroid friend about the supposed decline in teaching literature (since Atlas Shrugged isn't on every high school reading list or something). (nb: went to high school w/ this friend, senior year we read Shakespeare, Dostoevsky, Chekhov, Milton, Dante, Camus, Kafka, Achebe, etc..)

She decided that her trump card would be to whine that they always teach The Great Gatsby, and that's beach reading. A Jazz Age James Patterson.

Scientology is probably worse for the cultist, but they're less annoying overall. Don't try to work Xenu into daily conversations, I suspect. Whereas you can never escape the Ayn.

Since I've already lost a few to scientology I'd probably like to try it the other way. but yeah they tendo to be quieter about it, more of a candid feel of supremacy on their behalf

objectivism is annoying but harmless, scientology is creepy and sad

objectivism is annoying but harmless

aside from it actually influencing ppl's political decisions

I know how to argue with Objectivists. Also, they kind of amuse me and most of the ones I knew got over it in college. Scientology just confuses me.

like .1% of the population's political decisions, and most of those people would probably have pretty much the same views even if they didn't have Ayn Rand as an ideological springboard

Half-expecting the poll to be 4 for Objectivism and 39847294829342 for Scientology, due to the nutbars at that 'church' making 39847294829342 new accounts and voting just to make a point.

Then suing ilx until it is forced to shut down.

wtf are you talking about

fwiw I have never met a real-life Randroid.

the Ayn Rand society gave me $30 for an essay about Anthem that I was forced to write in 9th grade, probably because I spelled everything correctly. I think the other kid who got the $30 prize was and is a hardcore Marxist.

Objectivism. One of my best friends started as a hardcore objectivist (she still reads each Rand book at least once a year) who has slowly softened as her ideology came into contact with real life. I can argue with her and inevitably it ends with "lol u so craaaaazy" and then we go back to drinking and hanging out. I think if I lost a friend to higher levels of Scientology I'd be so alienated (how would arguments end? "u are actually truly crazy") that I wouldn't know how to deal with them.

aside from it actually influencing ppl's political decisions

― is that my man hannity?? (deej), Monday, November 24, 2008 12:55 AM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark

deej fwiw this friend i write about canvassed and voted for obama because she knew bob barr would never win so that's basically how i break it down to an extent.

You can't just "leave" Scientology. Objectivism's door at least has no lock.

like .1% of the population's political decisions, and most of those people would probably have pretty much the same views even if they didn't have Ayn Rand as an ideological springboard

― adult turban contemporary (Curt1s Stephens), Sunday, November 23, 2008 6:59 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i think it forms a basis for a lot of ppl's decisions whether they self-identify as objectivists or not

I think that generally speaking, Scientologists have a more unscientific view of the world than Objectivists. While some of the claims about capitalism seem to stretch the limits of credulity, the Objectivists do kind of understand the difference between ethics and science. Scientologists, on the other hand, believe in thetans.

I read several of Ayn's strictly "philosophical" books when I was 20 -- thanks but no thanks on her dreadful fiction -- and she was a poor, poor philosopher, but it wasn't science fiction.

Do Objectivists believe we are aliens?

Anyway, this is about who you'd rather lose a friend to. I pick Scientology because that friend would be lost forever, making administration a breeze. Also, no Amway option.

(xp)

You don't actually have any friends, do you AA?

this is sort of like "these guys are way crazier but more marginalized" vs. "these guys are not quite as loony, although still questionable, and have dangerous real-world impact" imo

I'm with the folks who say that Objectivism simply reinforces existing (selfish, capitalist, egoist whatever) beliefs. It sure as hell doesn't CHALLENGE anyone's beliefs.

You don't actually have any friends, do you AA?

― sheepie (libcrypt), Monday, 24 November 2008 12:25 (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

They are all with Amway now ;_;

scientology ruins lives, objectivism just ruins arguments

Does this argt even apply outside of the US? I dont think I've ever known or met anyone in Aus who is into Rand, or more to the point even read or heard of her.

I'm with the folks who say that Objectivism simply reinforces existing (selfish, capitalist, egoist whatever) beliefs. It sure as hell doesn't CHALLENGE anyone's beliefs.

― sheepie (libcrypt), Monday, November 24, 2008 1:31 AM (46 minutes ago) Bookmark

I'll ride for this: every Objectivist I've ever known was either profoundly selfish or had an exaggerated sense of self-importance.

This doesn't mean they're all that way obv, just in my experience.

i've never met an actual scientologist -- do they really target normal ppl, or just celebrities? objectivists are way funnier. the degree to which they've infiltrated normal society, so you can bring her up in virtually any circle and find a closet randroid, is kind of astonishing.

I have, and he rather slyly, creepily started to insert $ci stuff into our everyday conversations,very subtle, at first - til it got to a point of outright "I think you would benefit from considering blah blah" and I stopped talkng to him at that point.

Trayce I hear you but I think you would benefit from considering

I've gone into Churches and taken the personality test and let them give me the lines and the runaround and they seem like genuine people, not hucksters. I had to resist the urge to be like "So do you really buy into all the Xenu bullshit cause you seem like an alright dude" but I guess that's how they do it.

After I took the personality test the dude suggested a half-dozen books from their shop that I would benefit from and gave me an official-looking "prescription" for weekend courses they offered at "student discount prices."

Hahahah <3 J0hn.

One time a guy on the subway tried to get me to take a "stress test" on the subway and i told him that i'd heard scientology ruined lives and then he started yelling at me. "WHAT SINS HAVE YOU COMMITTED??" so uh, no thanks.

not actually "on the subway" but in the union square station. i think i've posted about this before.

WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES

I voted for Scientology because it would be a source of endless amusement for me and all my other friends

I picked Scientology. Cause I'd rather my friend be weak in the head than be a selfish, arrogant asshole. (Nb: The preceding statement may have no bearing on who I'm actually friends with. IE: I'm a liar clause.)

at the very least, objectivists have a tendency to grow out of it. (that sounds condescending and i don't really mean it that way)

scientology - that shit takes a special kind of nitwit that i'm just not all that keen on suffering. same goes for fundamentalists though.

One of my best friends started as a hardcore objectivist
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~bdo206/hardcoreobjectivist.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f185/PappaWheelie/AynSFTots.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f185/PappaWheelie/Aynrand.jpg

scientology sucks ppl dry and ruins lives this aint even a debate

If you've got to lose a friend to a cult, which would you prefer?
If you've got to lose a friend to a cult, which would you prefer?
If you've got to lose a friend to a cult, which would you prefer?
If you've got to lose a friend to a cult, which would you prefer?
If you've got to lose a friend to a cult, which would you prefer?
If you've got to lose a friend to a cult, which would you prefer?
If you've got to lose a friend to a cult, which would you prefer?
If you've got to lose a friend to a cult, which would you prefer?
If you've got to lose a friend to a cult, which would you prefer?
If you've got to lose a friend to a cult, which would you prefer?
If you've got to lose a friend to a cult, which would you prefer?
If you've got to lose a friend to a cult, which would you prefer?

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x89/edwardbayntun/gifs/SamJackson.gif

AA please marry me.

the Ayn Rand society gave me $30 for an essay about Anthem that I was forced to write in 9th grade, probably because I spelled everything correctly. I think the other kid who got the $30 prize was and is a hardcore Marxist.

Holy eff, you're shitting me! I thought nobody won those essay things. That scholarship poster is, I think, now built in automatically into publically funded educational institutions. And, actually, that's how everyone I know got Randed – by reading that damn book in hopes of 30 pieces of silver. The next day: "The Chinese are stupid to be mad about the Opium Wars because it was capitalism at work." glayoylaoiyloalaol

Seriously that is like the most fucking brilliant thing Ayn Rand ever did. Brilliant and stupid.

my first exposure to Ayn Rand was also via those posters, but I was only able to stomach about 50 pages of that bullshit before I gave up

Scientology is probably worse for the cultist, but they're less annoying overall.

i think this is true on both counts. and deej otm about real-world effects of randism:

http://www.clubhousewreckards.com/images/greenspan.jpg
HI DERE!

one of my hs friends dropped out of college to become a scientologist and is still in the church. i'm in occasional contact with him (he's even a facebook friend), and he seems kind of goofy and confused about his direction in life, but that's how he was before he joined the church too.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

"he spent several days deciding on the artifacts. Much long than he spent deciding to kill himself, and approximately the same time he spent getting that many reds. He would be found lying on his back, on his bed, with a copy of Ayn Rand's "The Fountainhead" (which would prove he had been a misunderstood superman rejected by the masses and so, in a sense, murdered by their scorn) and an unfinished letter to Exxon protesting the cancellation of his gas credit card." Philip K. Dick A Scanner Darkly p. 186

lol

congratulations, Clearwater

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/scientologists-open-super-power-headquarters-article-1.1518885

the haha objectivism's just a harmless teenage phase stuff upthread is poignant in its november 2008ness

Started getting Scientology ads on social media lately, they're doing the full press w/ streaming movies, FOLLOW US ON SNAPCHAT etc..

Scientology thoroughly poisons its adherents, but has been widely labeled as poison. Randian 'Objectivism' is poison, too, but it is somewhat milder and doesn't have the same warning labels. If I had to wish one on an innocent stranger, it would (reluctantly) be Objectivism, since it is easier to recover from.

At first I thought this was about Louis Zukofsky, George Oppen, Lorine Niedecker, etc. vs. scientology, and I was like 'why the fuck are we even polling this?'

At least Scientology's mythology is entertaining

Xenu > James Taggart.

Scientism vs. objectivology.