The Man That Ruined Doctor Who

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I hope it does.

If JNT was in any way responsible for the SW Dalek I wuv him forever.

Still - SPECIAL WEAPONS DALEKS! WOO HOO!

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happy now. no work til lunch.

awwww... misty water coloured memories...

Special weapons dalek, pfffff! way to make crap monster look even more pathetic. it's just like the different authors of comic heroes (say Batman) putting their own stamp on the character. pathetic. Also SWD appears in possibly the worst dalek story ever, stamping all over the triumph that was Genesis. grrr. (And yes Davros was part of this author escalation stuff, but if you're doing a genesis story, you need the mad inventor. anything else with him in = k-rubbish.)

Isn't it about time someone linked this thread to the shots of Jo naked draped around a dalek? Come on, you ph34rs0me HTMLers - you know you wanna..

RIGHT you dorkZoR, a question. The daleks. The thing that I thought was interesting/cool/rowr about them was that they were ROBOTS whos ambition/greed etc had turned them into potential ANIHILATxx0rs of the WURLD yaaaay! But then I watched one of the movies and the daleks were regular old humans stuck in robot suits! CHIZ! Is this how they always worked?! Had I been reading more in Dr Who than was actually there?

It's something I was thinking about the other day, is that although Leela was apparently introduced as Something For The Dads (TM Tome Wing), due to relative culture in time and space, if she was to appear on Star Trek/Stargate/Firefly etc today, there'd be a slew of doctoral theses on how they're making a striking feminist statement be having such a minger on.

*french approximation of: NO SILLY Beppe's mummy from Walford.

if she was to appear on Star Trek/Stargate/Firefly etc today, there'd be a slew of doctoral theses on how they're making a striking feminist statement be having such a minger on.

so, is this still true?

Are we talking about Lala Ward? If so I do not agree with the original hypothesis that she is a minger.

how can you ruin something that was already shit?

oh that's right get russell t davies to do it over.

how can you maintain something that was already classic?

get steven moffat and paul cornell to write the episodes

This thread title's grammar error irritates the hell out of me.

Louise Jameson is so not a minger, wtf.

Less hot as Beppe's mum but not bad in Doctor Who and as a love interest for Big Jim in Bergerac.

Ok, so was it really all his fault?

Now watching stories of Mccoy's first season, and the execution is a bit...lacking. The fault of the writing, I'm sure, but still...

Bring back Ben Aaronovitch, inventor of the flying Dalek.

Things I have learnt to-day - Ken Dodd was in an episode of Dr. Who.

Watched the 'Coming Soon' trailer for Delta last night, and even it can't make it look good. Which was a surprise, because previous trailers have managed to make even Trial look like the most exciting thing ever.

Bring back Ben Aaronovitch, inventor of the flying Dalek.

Dude also wrote the two best 7th Doctor novels, Transit (Gibson pastiche) and The Also People (Banks pastiche).

Dalek flying disks as old as Dalek Invasion Of Earth IIRC.

Anyway, reasons to hate JNT's era:

Wholesale clearance of the 'old guard' because he didn't like Oxbridge jokes

Confirmed in a dvd documentary (on Planet of Evil?), on taking over from Douglas Adams he adopted a total 'new broom' attitude and got rid of everyone he felt was linked to Adams in any way, primarily because he thought they were "posh and too interested in being funny" and he thought humour had no place in Who. Realised his mistake and tried to change things later but the damage was done.

Stunt casting extraordinaire

Beryl Reid as a space pilot. I mean, honestly. She was mostly blind and deaf by that point, and it's acknowledged on the Earthshock commentary that she had no idea what was going on while it was being filmed.

For the dads

Not a problem in and of itself, but poor Nicola. In The Two Doctors, her bikini got cut back so far "for the dads" it was unwearable, which is why she wears her jacket throught.

Convoluted canon and continuity

Too much to go into here, but if I said Season 6B it would be a start.

Script choices

I'll stand by Colin here, could seriously have been one of the best Doctors but let down by woeful scripting for the most part.

The Myrka

Needs no further explanation.

Dimensions In Time

He can't blame anybody else for any of this.

One benefit to being an American is that the vast majority of the stunt casting went completely over my head.

lol @ "The Myrka"

For the dads

Not a problem in and of itself, but poor Nicola. In The Two Doctors, her bikini got cut back so far "for the dads" it was unwearable, which is why she wears her jacket throught.

Hmmm, she seems to have managed alright at other times...

Unbelievable (and tbh hilarious) "reveal" at 0.45

Are annoying companions/characters the fault of the actor or the scriptwriter?

A bit of both, probably.

Have we done a "worst companion" poll? (Adric vs Mel FITE)

A bit of both, probably.

TV writers will tweak dialogue and even plot to fit the vibes they get off of an actor. If s/he's kind of a dud, the character as written will tend to drift that way too.

Watched "Dragonfire", and when you have both Ace & Mel onscreen, it's like night & fucking day, isn't it? As mentioned a bit upthread, I don't know how much can be attributed different actor and character, but the contrast is so striking; two completely different levels of energy, vibe, and presence. Like, they differ by an order of magnitude or three.

Also, what's the "Cartmel Masterplan" I've seen referred to here & there?

also, sticking this one here:

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Cartmel Masterplan:

An attempt by Andrew Cartmel (script ed at the time), Ben Aaronavitch and Marc Platt to make the Doctor a mysterious and powerful character in his own story. Starts in Remembrance, where the Doctor refers to himself as "much more than a Time Lord" (and, in fact, in the Target version is more or less explicitly referred to as The Other - let's not bring Lungbarrow into this...) and is responsible for all the back story refs in the last two McCoy seasons.

See also the Doctor's grooming of Ace as a new Time Lord (hence all the Ace-heavy characterisation in the likes of Ghost Light) to show just how powerful he was in Marc Platt's unfilmed Ice Time.

In other news, Powells had a copy of Tymewrym: Genesys for twenty fuckin' bucks. I know its an out of print paperback, but good Christ...

http://www.drwhoguide.com/na/na01.jpg

Many of the New Adventures will set you back a lot more than that. Unlike Genesys, some of them are worth it.

My 'Delta and the Bannermen' came early and I watched it this morning. I am now watching 'City of Death' in an attempt to erase it from my brain.

I'd forgotten just how woeful it really is - a series of barely comprehensible set-pieces forced together into almost a plot (even the production subs point out in ep 2 that you should "pay attention to this bit as it's the only time the plot turns up), a shoehorned comedy double act that you feel embarrassed for and some of the worst dialogue and acting in living memory. "Did he shoot you Doctor?" asks Mel at one point, when she was about a foot away from the Doctor at the time in the sidecar of the motorbike HE WAS DRIVING which you would think might make him having been shot A BIT FUCKING OBVIOUS.

And so, so many questions... how does the pod containing the new Princess get into the Bannermen ship they steal, giving they're not carrying it with them at any point? Where does Billy get the idea to drink the green syringe juice? More to the point, where in the name of the wee man do they come from? Delta isn't carrying them at any point before they become a plot issue. Are bees REALLY enraged by the sight of honey? Where did the Doctor's glasses come from, or go, since he's riding a bike the whole time? Is Delta's planet overrun or not? Who are these galactic police the Doctor threatens Gavrok with?

The extras are pretty poor, but are by far the best thing on the disc. Depressingly, probably the only really worthwhile thing on it is the trailer for The War Games. At least it's only a fortnight away...

Key of Marinus soon after - but don't blink, cos you'll miss the extras on that. Then Twin Dilemma, I believe. Unless it's this Dalek Warbox.

It's War Games, then Black Guardian then Marinus, with a release of Remembrance out of the Davros box somewhere in there too. Then Twin Dilemma which is, I think, the last properly announced and dated release.

Bloody hell, we did Black Guardian ages ago, I thought that was long out.

http://www.sfx.co.uk/2013/03/10/jn-t-the-life-and-scandalous-times-of-john-nathan-turner-review/

Shouldn't this thread title be "The Man Who Ruined Doctor Who"?

"Nerd Moans" wd cover it

speaking of

Also SWD appears in possibly the worst dalek story ever

bring Alan back here to fite about this