RIP, Oliver Postgate

http://www.kentnews.co.uk/ImageSuite/UserImages/news/postgate-kent-news-96_2Qa1.jpg

Thank you for making childhood a better place. (Caveat: I was actually a bit young for The Clangers. But Bagpuss and Ivor the Engine ...)

http://www.freewebs.com/1969clangers/img/drghat.jpg

He was George Landsbury's nephew, you know?

RIP.

Yes: according to the woman who was the voice of Madeleine (and some of the mice) on Today this morning, the Bagpuss set was a hotbed of friendly radicalism. Postgate's memoir is a superb read, she said.

Oh man. RIP.

Bagpuss forever. RIP.

My 5 year old self loved the Clangers almost as much as my mum at the time and 38 years later his quiet, eccentric programmes still resonate as deeply. Truly one of a kind. RIP.

Postgate's memoir is a superb read, she said.

Absolutely.

He was terrific. I loved his voice.

(As an aside his dad, the great Raymond Postgate wrote some crime novels that are well worth reading now bearing in mind the current (or should I say eternal) discussions (hand wringing) around crime.)

Noggin The Nog, The Clangers, Ivor the Engine, Pogles Wood, Bagpuss! That's quite an achievement.

And he was a conscientious objector.

And he used Vernon Eliot for the music/sound, which is great as well.

RIP.

Noggin The Nog!

I've watched quite a bit of Ivor the Engine recently, cos both of our little boys are massively into trains and we found a set of Ivor videos cheap in a charity shop. Really is such a charming programme, especially compared to the likes of Thomas, which has none of the warmth or invention or magic about it at all. The sound of that guy's voice conjures up my early childhood like little else can, and to hear it again on the news this morning, and to hear that he was dead, was a strangely sad thing.

warmth or invention or magic

Yes, that's exactly it. There's something so all-encompassing about the fantasies Postgate and Firmin created ... I can't quite put my finger on it, but it's almost like the perfect balance between the quotidian (eg Jones the Steam and Ivor chuntering along the track) and the fanciful (eg Jones the Steam and Ivor find a singing dragon), never boring us with the former nor taking the latter too far.

They were, I suppose, very old-fashioned, everyday otherworlds.

and to hear that he was dead, was a strangely sad thing

I was surprisingly cut up.

RIP. What a mensch.

Wish I had a copy of his Desert Island Discs from last year. He was a wonderful man, and chose such interesting records too.

Yeah, that was great, esp. the story of him turning up at a barracks to register as a conshie

http://btjunkie.org/torrent/Desert-Island-Discs-Oliver-Postgate-July-15-2007-WebRip-MP3-mp3/5202259fd550ccb947597cca5198d5b18272f1b56bb5

Postgate's memoir is a superb read, she said.

Looking this up on Abe and Amazon brings back ridiculously overpriced copies. Don't fall for it! I got mine in one of those remainder bookshops (The Works, I think) for about a fiver and there was a pile of them. So check them first.

http://stuffucanuse.com/fake_moon_landings/moon_landings.htm

I liked when the Soup Dragon ate all the music, and then kept opening her mouth as little tinkling notes came from her tummy.

Oh, DV, that's quite wonderful. And thanks for that torrent, koogs.

(let me know if it works 8)

Charlie Brooker did a stunning tribute on Screenwipe tonight ... which, for some reason, doesn't seem to be working on iPlayer right now. It'll be repeated on BBC4 later tonight and probably later in the week: honestly. it's worth catching. Genuinely moving, to a "no, I'm fine, it's just something in my eye" level.

(And if anyone can tell me what the music is beneath the majority of the tribute segment, I'd be v grateful. Ta.)

one of the best. he WAS my childhood. RIP.

The torrent did work, koogs, probably because I'm a theb0x.bz member.

cool

iplayer working fine now, is season 4 episode 5, the last 10 minutes or so. can't identify music though.

Bugger. The BBC are wankers about that, too. The FAQ basically says: "Don't bother e-mailing us to ask about music in a programme."

So I e-mailed Charlie Brooker at Zeppotron instead.

Also: v glad it's working on iPlayer. Can't recommend enough that people watch it.

Yes, excellent. No idea what the music is I'm afraid. Sounded like Introduction by Nick Drake but then it sounded like something else. I would ignore the FAQ and email them I've had success before on this although probably your best bet is the production company.

Charlie Brooker did a stunning tribute on Screenwipe tonight ... which, for some reason, doesn't seem to be working on iPlayer right now. It'll be repeated on BBC4 later tonight and probably later in the week: honestly. it's worth catching. Genuinely moving, to a "no, I'm fine, it's just something in my eye" level.

His ScreenBurn tribute was surprisingly wonderful too - you can tell he really means it: http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2008/dec/13/charlie-brooker-screen-burn-oliver-postgate

I can't get that torrent to work thanks to my office firewall - any chance someone could re-up it on Megaupload or whatever?

Finally, let me offer you the following thought. Suppose that I am part of a silent Martian invasion, and that my intention is slowly to destroy the whole culture of the human race. Where would I start? I would start where thought first grows. I would start with children's television. My policy would be to give the children only the sort of thing they "already know they enjoy", like a fizzing diet of manic jelly-babies. This would no doubt be exciting, but their hearts and their minds would receive no nourishment, they would come to know nothing of the richness of human life, love and knowledge, and slowly whole generations would grow up knowing nothing about anything but violence and personal supremacy. Is that a fairy-tale? Look around you.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/dec/10/postgate-bagpuss-animation-television

RIP

There's a Kulkarni article about kids' TV in this month's Plan B, out before Postgate's death, which mentions him and echoes the points in that piece (yeah, go on, indie kids, perpetual students, "man, do you remember, what were we thinking"). Eerie timing.

For a few moments I let myself hope that the renewed appreciation for Postgate and Firmin's work since his death might trigger a less frenetically edutainment-obsessed approach to children's TV. But the thought of an updated Bagpuss, as mentioned in the Beeb obit, still makes me afraid. LOL old etc.

(Disclaimer: I have seen very little new kids' TV, what with not having kids, and am aware that I don't remember the faults in that of my own childhood. I don't know if I really loved it as a child or if we watched it because my parents liked it and I came to appreciate it later. Maybe it doesn't matter.)

Further nagging thought: someone on ILX once said that every generation sees itself as having the last link to some great tradition that the next doesn't understand. For me, Postgate's work almost IS that link -- an imagined just-gone rolling countryside of quiet myths, understated magic, customer-less sepia-tinted curio shops in someone's front room -- and it's not just some Daily Mail fantasy of terrible droog youth rejecting our values, but (if that article is correct) a real and deliberate shift by broadcasters. And, hey, maybe the idea behind the shift is right! I'd like to hear from any ILX parents who've sat their kids in front of older TV and compared, though.

Sorry, long post. I hope I haven't sounded too reactionary or otherwise ruined the RIP thread for a childhood hero.

I once had a big row with Baz Lasagne, essentially making Brit Ringpull's point that there was a qualitative difference between Postgage etc and subsequent kids shows. Baz was working in kids tv at the time and told me I was just being a nostalgic twerp. :/

I do kind of dread a possible post-Postgage revival wave of Gondry-esque/Noah and the Whale lo-fi, crafty kids tv, presented by Josie Long or someone.

Though maybe if they got Gruff SFA it wouldn't be so bad?

someone on ILX once said that every generation sees itself as having the last link to some great tradition that the next doesn't understand. For me, Postgate's work almost IS that link -- an imagined just-gone rolling countryside of quiet myths, understated magic, customer-less sepia-tinted curio shops in someone's front room -- and it's not just some Daily Mail fantasy of terrible droog youth rejecting our values, but (if that article is correct) a real and deliberate shift by broadcasters. And, hey, maybe the idea behind the shift is right!

At some point in the near future I need to knock together a developmental-psychology essay that could, arguably, touch on that last point. Not sure I can make the whole thing about Bagpuss and the Clangers, mind. (LOL MATURE STYUUDENT, etc.)

As for the rest of what you're saying: hmm, I agree there might be an element of that from some quarters, but I don't think that's what I (or Charlie Brooker, for that matter, or most of the other posters on this thread) am getting at here. It's nothing to do with nostalgia for a bygone age, or a huffing-and-puffing notion that children's TV was once somehow perfect and now it's all gone to shit and really it's so LOUD and for goodness' sake that can't be healthy, etc etc.

It's simply that the oddly melancholic little vignettes produced by Postgate and Firmin touched something within me, and continue to do so. To be honest, I don't even think of them as part of some great arc of children's TV, or even as TV for children. They just ... are. And endure.

Well, there was rubbish kids tv when Postgate was about and if anyone hankers after Muffin the Mule or Andy Pandy I would be suspicious. Kids TV to-day? Some of the stuff my kids watch is v. entertaining, some of it is rubbish. Plus ca change.

xp Lisa Jen has a real Shelly Duvall thing going on there of which I approve.

Teletubbies did weirdly melancholic little vignettes too. The Graun article is hyperbolic tosh, surprise surprise.

Oh, I'd agree that he was more or less out on his own at the time, too. I was just picking up on the article's contention that he wouldn't even be allowed to create anything similar today, but I suppose that's what you get asking someone whose work hadn't been in much demand for 15 years what they think of the developments of the past 15 years.

You're probably right about the quality ratio, and plenty of older kids' TV seems pedestrian and amateurish in a way I can't imagine anyone wanting back, of course.

Also, I didn't mean it as a golden age thing, but there's a quaintness to the settings that TV now seems to assume kids aren't interested in because they need things to be FLASHY and NOW/FUTURE, which isn't bad in itself, but I don't think the assumption is true, if it's being made. I suppose the success of yr Potters, Merlins etc suggests not, but the younger kids' stuff I've seen (probably misrepresentative) has been determinedly neon and loud and 21st century. Again, not bad, but a change.

Anyway, I haven't watched enough for it to be my point, it was just a coincidence that I read the Kulkarni piece this morning and Postgate's this afternoon, and felt drawn to remark on the similarities. But I am, as I said, under-qualified to comment.

http://www.dreamlines.ie/images/catalog/newimage067.jpg

Elephant in the room?

Just like A Passing Spacecadet, I know nothing about contemporary kids' TV. Apparently In The Night Garden is awesome, but I've no idea. The bits Brooker had on his show last night looked ace, albeit very slick ... that said, I think "hand-knitted charm" is a thing of the past now.

Yo Gabba Gabba! looked fucking brilliant, too, but again: I can't base an opinion on a couple of clips.

(And if anyone can tell me what the music is beneath the majority of the tribute segment, I'd be v grateful. Ta.)

It's Ghosts Of Things To Come, by Clint Mansell, from the Requiem For A Dream OST. (No reply from CB, but Mrs F saw someone had asked the same thing on Digital Spy. Good ole fucking Digital Spy.)

Haha, I have that! I am useless.

I didn't have it, oddly: got the DVD but not the OST. Rectified that; indeed, am listening as I toil on an essay.

bagpuss just made me cry a lot

it + ivor = best tv ever