money dilemma: I think I have just been Scrooge

I manage a small team of people in the public sector. Last year at our Christmas meal I paid for the whole thing. Then there were six of us including me and we'd just had some back pay that was due to us. This year there are nine of us in the team including me and no back pay. We had the meal today and right up to the last minute I wasn't sure whether to pay for everyone. I finally decided it was just too much, not expected, even would embarrass everyone, etc. and then when the bill came it was less than I thought (they'd left the coffees off! and it just worked out less than I had thought in general), but it was still a lot (£175 quid including tip), but by the time I found that out it was too late and people were putting money in... the worst thing is that the guy next to me borrowed £20 from me to pay! He must have thought he didn't need any money with him...

I did wrong didn't I? I get a chance to make up with my leaving meal in Jan but at that one my boss will try to pay for it all. I can then split it with him after an argument.

God I hate this.

I don't know if anyone here can really answer this one for you -- it's all a matter of small social and environmental cues about whether people expected to be paid for or whether they thought you were just being nice last year -- but I'd suggest that if they started ponying up money before you even got a chance to think about the bill, they probably weren't walking in there super-convinced it was a free meal.

I mean, if they sat there for five minutes clearing their throats and looking at you and then started putting money in, there was a miscommunication, but it sounds like the bulk of them weren't necessarily thinking this was paid for.

If, as a boss, you pay for a specific, special thing (like a Christmas or birthday meal), you're half obligated, I think, to either:
A) Pay for it again when it's repeated, or...
B) Somehow make clear that you won't be paying for it. Or at least drop hints.

I understand that this sucks for less well paid boss-type people, but by not clarifying, even to yourself ("right up to the last minute I wasn't sure whether to pay for everyone"), you helped create a situation that at least had the potential for weirdness. Then again, you can't please everybody, and it probably isn't a big deal either way. Wouldn't worry too much about it.

I agree with that comment, but at this point it doesn't matter does it? Sounds like everyone was pretty nice about it, and you're leaving the job so it's not exactly a lesson for the future, so no point in beating yourself up now.

Yeah, I know, there's no point in beating myself up, but I really really am! Contenderizer is OTM on potential for weirdness, and I did think about hints, but couldn't think how really....

I am leaving the job but I still have to work at a distance with the team....

and coal costs money mr cratchit!

I don't really think that this reflects badly on you at all. Last year, there were fewer people and you'd had some back pay. If the situation was the same this year, then it might have been awkward. But this year there were more people (who presumably didn't know you paid last year), and no back pay. And £175 is a lot of money in anyone's language. So the people working under you were probably expecting to have to pay this year anyway.

yeah everybody was probably like whatever, dude's leaving anyway, don't sweat it

I really, really want to think like Snoball and Edward III but I can't bring myself to do it. I am sitting here swearing at myself! If it had been over £200 it would have been somehow clearer-cut I think....

if you really want to play up the scrooge angle you could hound that one guy for the 20 quid and tell him the poorhouses are full of people who don't pay for lunch

you gotta get over this aftershock of guilt or you're going to end up buying them all an iphone for xmas

If this is giving you serious mind-pain, I seriously encourage you to think like Snoball, and regret irritating the wound. Right or wrong, good or bad, I can't see this being a big huge deal. People who care about you will understand, and the rest will get over it.

Well, look, worst-case scenario is a few people going "GOD, I can't believe I wasn't TOLD we had to pay for dinner this year, otherwise I wouldn't have ordered the duck" -- this is pretty minor griping and they'd be directing it more at "work" than you specifically, so it's no huge burden worth tormenting yourself over.

And if you really want to correct it, maybe some other small token of holiday-season generosity would create some good will toward you and paper over the fact that expectations weren't made clear with the dinner.

I did wrong didn't I?

Did you fuck! Christ's teeth, I can't even believe a whole team allowed you to buy them lunch last year: that's generosity in excelsis. (Perhaps I say this only because, when I was a manager, I wouldn't have dreamed of doing such a thing -- although, in fairness, I managed some thirsty dudes.)

Anyone who is remotely put out by this -- who even considers being put out -- is a cock. And why would you want to buy lunch for a cock?

People who care about you will understand, and the rest will get over it are cocks.

and only tiny tim will attend yr funeral

maybe some other small token of holiday-season generosity

Unless it's "go easy on the whipping on Christmas Day", I say: fuck that noise.

(Guess who's doing a six-day week next week, including Christmas Day and Boxing Day?)

I've been trying to think of something to paper over as Nabisco says... We are already drowning in chocolate that is always around. I think my only hope of redemption is the meal in the new year... and no duck, it was a pretty cheap restaurant so it wasn't so bad really. I just am generally sick of being screwed around by work and bending to others' needs in general and I think I expressed it in the worst possible way.

But I am very very happy just to know that it is POSSIBLE to think like Grimly on this issue!

It is pretty silly to go into a meal thinking you won't pay for it, unless the meal is with a man who just proposed to you for marriage or somesuch.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm, I want to believe you Abbott...

I am fooling myself here, I basically need to just beat myself up for days and will just have to accept that.

(xpost) Or unless you have one of those "free meal at BK" vouchers.

I will add this though. Presumably the eight people are adults. For one of them to complain that they had to pay for their own meal, they'd have to be either a) a petulant child, b) have major entitlement issues, or c) be plain stupid. I include the last one, because I imagine that you're going to be talking to the person who will be taking over as their manager. And consequently telling them who on the team can work unsupervised, who is a bit tardy, etc.. Someone would have to be stupid to do/say something that will cause their soon-to-be-old boss to tell their soon-to-be-new boss that they are a bit of a spoilt cock.

Maybe I am misunderstanding the question, but I'm assuming the reason they'd think the meal was paid for was some sense that it was a work-event meal that was ultimately being paid for by work.

(Did they understand the year before that you were just being generous, and were not buying them dinner in a management capacity?)

I agree with snoball – I've been the person in the past that assumed meals were on someone else's dollar and it is a good way to be embarrassing and look like a self-entitled jackass. Even a work event or something like this.

Hey, ljub, here's another way to think on it:
So, I've been in the same position, but on the other side. Like the boss came to lunch (non-Xmas) and paid for everything. Unexpected but v cool. Next time she came with us, I was like, "yay, I hope I don't have to spend my own money cuz I basically don't have any!" I didn't expect freebies, necessarily, but my hopes for undeserved bonus food was high. When it turned out she wasn't gonna spring for it after all, I was bummed, but not upset. Mostly it established the boundaries of the relationship: foods might be paid for, but don't count on it. Which is certainly better than nothing...

Nabisco - no, they were absolutely clear the year before that it was not a work-event meal paid for by work - we're not allowed to do that.
Abbott, I am having trouble imagining that it is possible for you to act like a self-entitled jackass, based on your general contributions... ah, knowing people online by mostly lurking - infallible!
Contenderizer, I like it, I like it! I will work on that!

unless somebody explicitly says "my treat" you better bring yo wallet

xpost - yeah, it's the management of expectations that seems key here, so everyone knows where everyone stands

Okay, yeah, if they understood that the meal was a gift last year, no way are they going to be pissed at you this year -- for all you know, they all started chipping in for it because they didn't want you to be treating again! That's totally not worth worrying about.

thanks everybody - even though I still feel like shit I feel much better that there are definitely two ways of looking at it.

At my work, if a group of people went out to eat with their manager and it was clear that the company was not footing the bill, then everyone in that group would offer to pay their share even if the manager had paid on a previous occasion and they maybe expected to get a free lunch, and no one would be put out about it.

It would seem kind of dickish if the individual folks didn't offer to chip in.

Moodles, please may I have a job at your work, where things are not all weird?

sorry but if my boss takes me and my coworkers out to lunch i assume bossy is paying

doesnt your employer give you a budget to fund things like this?

its times like these i realize i work for a cushy company

oh public sector vs. private sector: it was not a work-event meal paid for by work - we're not allowed to do that.

ljub, last year you did something very generous and everyone knew it was a gift from you. If they were expecting the same this year, under completely different circumstances (more people, no back pay, etc), they were wrong to have those expectations.

I think's Mandee's right though, in the private sector you would expect this. Yeah, public sector very different - it's more that I set a precedent and then didn't follow through.

Ha ljub that is sweet – no the thing was it was with friends, not employees, bcz I was poor and misunderstood people's offers. Like now if someone invites me to lunch I preface with "I have zero dollars and zero cents" and all is cool.

I wonder what dear Miss Manners wld say abt this? I will look in her book for words of comfort for you, if there are any.

Everyone will just assume you've got some big drug or gambling debt to pay off and let it slide. I mean that is the reason right?

Wait till you get to DC and have to factor in tips.

There is nothing specifically about this topic. Perhaps you could write her?

really though if i were your employee and this happened i'd be kinda like ugh but in the end i'd forget about it after about 3 days

5 days. when it's a hierarchical relationship (not a bunch of workmates) and a boss initiates, then i assume boss is paying. sorry.

Ned, I might have to pay quite a bit to get out of my lease! It was probably playing on my mind...

Interesting question about boss initiation: every team goes out every year for a work Xmas meal, it's a given, so not really initiated by me, but could be seen as kind of 'proxy initiation' by dint of being boss.

In my experience, when the boss/company is paying, that fact is advertised going into the deal. Phrases like "my treat" or "on the company tab" etc. are bandied about. Otherwise, I would assume that it's a chip in kind of deal.

My boss has just emailed everyone about a meal when I leave in January. When he spoke about it to me about a few days ago it he kind of implied that he'd pay for everyone but kind of very very slightly rolled his eyes about it. I am thinking I should email everyone now (except him so that he doesn't react) to say 'this one will be on me' and then explain to him the weirdness between now and January. We'll probably end up splitting it.

Is good plan, yes?

I don't know if I'd do that so soon, cz I'd feel like it was advertising that I could've paid for yesterday's meal but didn't. If another reminder is sent out a day or two before in Jan, though, it might be a nice gesture. (You also leave yourself some leeway in case financial disaster strikes before then, too.)

But that's just a personal gut feeling from someone who's never been a manager and is, you know, not overendowed with social skills.

PS have worked public sector (university support staff) for a couple of places in the UK, and line managers and dept managers have paid for meals and then not paid next time, no big deal. The only difference here is that it's a specific repeated event, and the people who were there last time may have thought the same might happen, but I'm sure they'd recognise that circumstances aren't the same, and realise that you were being generous last year.

Plus, as someone else said, if they were all putting money in before you'd even seen the bill, it doesn't seem like people were expecting you to cover it.

grimly fiendish knows where it's at. I can't really understand all the fuss.