Americaphiles

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How people never talk about Brits who obsess over American culture while the Anglophile is a well established character-type?

fritz, Friday, 10 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

all brits are, de facto, obsessed with american culture. even if they don't want to be

gareth, Friday, 10 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The Brits/Irish/whoever who pretend to despise American culture are far more annoying to me.

Ronan, Friday, 10 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

There ain't many Anglophiles in England.

Pete, Friday, 10 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

funnily enough i find that if there's a well-defined group of english people who have any attitude towards america, it's people who hate it... the only people i've ever met who lovelovelove america all love '50s america (baseball, soda fountains, Peanuts-world). odd that!

katie, Friday, 10 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Gareth est sur l'argent.

RickyT, Friday, 10 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Lots of British people identify very strongly with US hip hop culture / language / music etc.

There's also a sizeable world of c'n'w obsessives too, with their confederate flag belt buckles and their bootlace ties and often extravagant sideburns. (I saw a fellow who had his hair and sideburns done in an exact 1978 George Jones style the other day... it was all I could do not to go over and thank him for being so cool).

I'm sure there are other good examples.

Tim, Friday, 10 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Maybe it's ok to be an Anglophile as this is perceived by other Americans as a quaint hobby like enjoying landscape paintings or something, whereas identifying yourself an Ameriphile is seen as traitorous or sycophantic to other Brits.

fritz, Friday, 10 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

That seems otm to me but also being an Ameriphile must be less attractive to people because in theory so much of what it would entail is what we all do anyway, eating American food, wearing American clothes, consuming American culture.

America is like the Britney or Oasis of the world and if we presume the reason people become Anglophiles in America is out of a desire for some new cultural identity, we can see it doesn't work in reverse really.

Ronan, Friday, 10 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm an American obsessed with English/European culture.

Chris, Friday, 10 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

traitor! sycophant! (wink)

fritz, Friday, 10 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Also there is a recognisable (stereotypical) English culture which the anglophile loves. I would be very surprised if that actually took in black British culture or bears that much relationship with the way we English live our lives today.

This homogenity does not exist within America - Tim's two Ameriphile's above would probably be classed as hip-hop fans and country & western fans. Too much stuff comes out of the States for someone to uniformly love it all.

Pete, Friday, 10 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

very surprised if that actually took in black British culture or bears

This made me think British Bear culture was what we were all missing out on for a minute.

fritz, Friday, 10 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

part of my obsession has to do with me marrying a norwegian so.......

Chris, Friday, 10 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't care where you're from, doesn't necessarrily make you more interesting if you're from some place different than me, but really I am obsessed with every culture.

Hank, Friday, 10 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

even hippy culture Hank ;)

(hippy culture = acidopholus heheheh)

katie, Friday, 10 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

This made me think British Bear culture was what we were all missing out on for a minute.

Okay, now how can I make a joke using the phrase "brawny man-sex" without being offensive...?

Dan Perry, Friday, 10 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

There's something bruin in the UK.

Tim, Friday, 10 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

That's why people mistakenly grow those 'often extravagant sideburns' -- gives others something to hang on to.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 10 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Again poking fun at sideburns Ned.

Chris, Friday, 10 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

QUITE RIGHT. Rid yourself of these elements of Satan.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 10 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I shaved them off about two months ago and I felt lost without them. Been 10 years with them.

Chris, Friday, 10 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Gareth: are you thinking of those like Auberon Waugh / Peter Hitchens / Richard Body (and other remnants of the fogeyish post-war Tory attitude to the US) who, whatever they would say, *are* obsessed with American culture in a negative way, in that they devote their thoughts and energies to denouncing and eliminating it?

My beef has always been with mainland Europeans (esp. Germans - Master P is top 10 in Germany at the moment, enough said) who mock British people for being obsessively Americaphile AS IF THEY WEREN'T EQUALLY AMERICAPHILIC THEMSELVES, and the British "liberal" hacks who slavishly follow them.

Robin Carmody, Friday, 10 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

haha! my how the tables have turned. here, NYC bands like the ecch moldy peaches sell their CDs in the United States as UK imports, and i think more than one NYC garage-electro-whatever band made their website end in "co.uk" even though they live in the US. there's a popular club night thing in brooklyn called "berliniamsburg", and a few are going so far as to say that "brooklyn is the new berlin" heh whatevah, even splitting it up into regions, "this area will be kreuzberg" etc etc. we all want what we don't have, i guess.

geeta, Friday, 10 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I revile america in so many ways, but having just come back from NY I was like a small child revelling in the Americana on the place. I made my hostess eat a burrito cos I'd never had one, and gave her a tummy upset as a result. I ate "devil dogs", for god's sake! I insisted on looking upwards at all times.

Whoever it was who said that Brits/Europeans are americaphiles whether they like it or not was OTM. Regardless of all the shit that spews from its fetid pores, there is just as much that is subconsciously associated, from childhood movies, toys, etc., with the ideal.

Mark C, Saturday, 11 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i had a flatmate last year who was completely obsessed with american television, to the point that he would refuse to watch anything british, australian or even new zealandish. i didn't understand him at all.

di, Saturday, 11 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

When I was at uni there was one -- just one -- Americaphile in my English lecture. He was called Mike. He wore baseball caps and was loud and extravert, full of annoying 'Can-do spirit', respect for his elders, love of capitalist acumen, etc.

Meanwhile, the 'cool' ones were dreaming of Berlin, or trying to be Oscar Wilde, or dressing like characters in Kafka, or carrying Peter Handke novels in their pockets, or talking about this new Edinburgh band called Josef K...

How I despised Mike! I wonder what happened to him? He's probably a photocopier salesman in Iowa now.

Of course, when I went to live in the US, it was love hate all the way. I lived in NY Chinatown, not a Starbucks in sight, lots of Buddhist associations and Judaic esoterica shops. And I hung out a lot in Williamsburg, which IS Berlin! How Mike would have hated it!

In fact, if you're free on June 20th come and see me live in concert with the American artists I signed to my American Patchwork label -- Phiiliip, an American who lives in the real Berlin, Super Madrigal Brothers, Americans who remake Italian renaissance madrigals using the sounds of Nintendo, etc -- a mere stone's throw from Brooklyn- Mitte, at Warsaw (Polish National Home) on Driggs Street, Greenpoint.

Momus, Saturday, 11 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

dressing like characters in Kafka

whoa! which ones??! i'm having some unsettling visions here.

you can't just let that one go without further elaboration!

somerville is the new paris, Sunday, 12 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

My first band was described in the NME, in a review of our second gig ever, as 'a hoarde of invading cockroaches -- someone turn the lights on!' So I guess it was Gregor Samsa.

Momus, Sunday, 12 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Now that I think about this more, there is one place in the world where the Americaphile is a recognized type (by Americans, anyway) - Japan.

Now, I'm inclined to think that the American take on the Japanese take on American Pop culture is a really really distorted one. The obsession goes through 2 prisms - one as the original american clothes and records and movies enter Japanese consciousness and another when their versions of the same enter America's consciousness.

fritxz, Sunday, 12 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

This raises the interesting question of black Americaphiles. A lot of Japanese youth culture, from the ganguro 'yamamba' look of a year or so ago (still going strong in magazines like Egg and Cawaii) to the perennial Japanfarian look, are based on black American styles. But this isn't confined to Japan: think of Bertrand Tavernier's film 'Round Midnight', with its depiction of the slavish obession of a white French jazz fan for his black American idol. Or think of Boris Vian, or Jamiroquai, or countless other wannabe African Americans.

Momus, Sunday, 12 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

hmmm... that brings an interesting angle into the whole question of what American culture is (at least in terms of how it is perceived internationally) - how much of that is actually African American culture. and how seperate the two things are. eg The Rolling Stones circa 1965 set the tone for the next 20 yrs of English Ameriphilia - but it was really strictly afro-ameriphilia, right? same deal with house music's affect on manchester and so on.

fritz, Sunday, 12 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

back to the point of american culture through japanese eyes - it seems like there is a residual (and not totally unjustified) feeling on the part of americans that the Japanese perceptions of American culture are flawed but charming eg "they're trying to do our thing, but getting it all wrong because they misunderstand it, but that's cute" but that's now being supplanted by a respect for the twists on American culture that the Japanese inject. It's like when you hear a Jamaican rocksteady cover of an American soul song - everyone now recognizes that they're not playing it wrong, they're playing it their way.

fritz, Sunday, 12 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Or to continue the Stones example, the way their inauthentic take on the blues was so successful that Muddy Waters ultimately ended up making records that sounded more like the Stones than his old Chess sides.

fritz, Sunday, 12 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Are nationalistic, proprietary feelings towards culture outdated and irrelevent?

fritz, Sunday, 12 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Discussion of Ben Sherman shirts on another thread led me to thinking of a relatively little-known form of Americanophilia here in the UK.

There's a shop in Covent Garden called J. Simon which sells almostly exclusively classic American menswear - Bass Weejuns, Rockport, London Fog, Timberland, Woolrich etc. It enjoyed a brief period of trendiness in the 80s when Paul Weller and others went there for their Bass Weejuns (I had a couple of pairs myself - beautiful shoes) and it's still going. It seems to appeal mainly to middle-aged gay men now - former Mods probably. The whole thing is a bit like the American taste for Burberries and Church brogues - but in reverse.

David, Sunday, 12 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

three years pass...
I am curious if there are Brits who affect American accents or who falsely claim to be American?

Sometimes in the US this happens. I knew one guy--er, bloke--in college (in North Carolina) who spoke claimed to be from England and spoke with a strong English accent. I had no reason to doubt him, but I later learned found out that he was born and raised in a small town in central NC.

There have been various others jerks who put on moderate Englishy accents, but then claimed that it was just that they were enunciating properly, like the English do, or that they had just always spoken that way, etc.

Whispy Fandango Triphop (unclejessjess), Friday, 28 April 2006 03:52 (nineteen years ago)

OH!!!! And then there's MADONNA'S accent. WTF is THAT shit?

Whispy Fandango Triphop (unclejessjess), Friday, 28 April 2006 04:03 (nineteen years ago)

I am curious (BRITISH)

JW (ex machina), Thursday, 4 May 2006 16:45 (nineteen years ago)

I am curious if there are Brits who affect American accents or who falsely claim to be American?

http://www.gcann.com/EventCalendar/photos/hires/Flash%20&%20Tim%20Westwood%20-%20London%2005.gif

YO DERE

Doktor Faustus (noodle vague), Thursday, 4 May 2006 17:37 (nineteen years ago)

Jesse, re the dude you knew in NC: you should listen to this.

jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 4 May 2006 17:53 (nineteen years ago)

westwood kind of made his own accent up though? or, at least, it sounds that way

charltonlido (gareth), Thursday, 4 May 2006 18:28 (nineteen years ago)

a post disappeared. perhaps, chirac was threatened, by the implications

i wondered, in the disappeared post, if the NC person and the article person, had mackem accents, or whether it was more of a boltonian affair

charltonlido (gareth), Thursday, 4 May 2006 18:32 (nineteen years ago)

ian riese moraine to thread

RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Thursday, 4 May 2006 19:49 (nineteen years ago)


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