Gentrifaction - the worst thing ever.

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I am looking at you New York City.

― anthony, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Not great. But not the worst thing ever. (that wd be when someone makes you laugh when you are eating rice pudding, and it comes out through yr nose...)

― mark s, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

this intriguesmme cos as a queer boy, i feel kinda guilty...why? OK, cheap areas with lots of migrants+great restuarants/cafes=attraactice living for queer boys->queer boys move in, rents go up->students see cool area, multicultural and queer friendly, think cool,move in->rent goes up, by now original inhabitants are having to move out as rent too high->new media piece on why _________ is such a nice suburb - >lots of attraction, rich fucking yuppie scum move in and bang goes the hood.

― Geoff, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

yep i feel equal guilt.

― anthony, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I always wanted bOston rents to go down but then I thought, if peopl e will pay them, why should they charge less?love it or leave it, and I'm leaving.

― Mike Hanley, Tuesday, 31 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I don't think you should feel guilty. We need queer-friendly neighborhoods. I live in one. The point is that these neighborhoods don't contribute to homogenization - mini-mall enterprises, big chains, parking garages and hideous massive condo developments do that. The Starbucks and all that push out a lot of the gay & lesbian- owned businesses and make it less affordable for renters & owners. I don't think people invite their own eviction - blame the developers who see young "hip" white people and move in for the kill. Well, actually, I blame the politicians who are in their pockets, as well as everyone who should be putting the heat on the pols. Queer neighborhoods are not a threat to preservation or urban character - these places have always been a haven, and that's urbanism at its *best*. This neighborhood I'm living in, for example, had a diversity of incomes while remaining relatively safe and clean until condo developers moved in, bulldozing Victorian buildings and driving up rents and property taxes.

Young bohemians, college-educated renters, or queers shouldn't have to feel as if their interests are pitted against those of poorer people or immigrants. Time was, at least here in the US, that cities actually had *greater* income and ethnic diversity - we all would have felt like we had our place - and it's only recently that things have gotten so polarized.

― Kerry Keane, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I agree with you. I try to only support local buisness.

― anthony, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

San Francisco: yesterday's arty yuppie trash get shoved around by today's (or last yrs, really) new-economy new-media yuppie trash, and start getting up in arms decrying gentrification. On the other hand, this is a real and nasty issue in Oakland and the surrounding enviorns where real working ppl. are getting the heave-ho.

― Sterling Clover, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

in sydney, there's no way unless you earn more than 500 a wk that you can afford to live in the inner suburbs, so what we're doing iis living in a middle-suburb, mucho non-english speakers, and doing our best to support local business but also to make it queer/alternative friendly - it's difficult, with little economic power to do that, but i think just being out and about in a suburb where machismo and traditional religions are out is enough to say hey, let's let multiculturalism mean multiculturalism, instead of you live in one suburb, i'll live in another etc

― Geoff, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

My neighbourhood in London has recently become the most expensive in the city in terms of cost per square metre due to gentrification. Hilariously, ILE picnickers thought I would live in hyoooge loft space as a result of my post code and were surprised to find a courtyard full of strung-out couriers drinking evil strong beer on day off. My actual building is housing association block which local council have been threatening to gentrify for ages, but never actually get around to doing it. I have good apartment karma and pay a monthly rent not dissimilar to many friends' weekly rents, which I will enjoy while it lasts.

It annoys me that friends in Shoreditch (including a few 'young British artists') have all been shoved out of THEIR neighbourhood by wankerish City workers paying £250+ PER WEEK for tiny flats who make Wall Street types look like pussycats. It's this way all over London's inner zones.

NYC? That's even worse. I'd probably live in Chinatown if I could find a place that didn't cost 2K/month for a 1BR. At least I could eat well for a piffling amount of money, because that's all I'd have left after rent.

― suzy, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I live in one of the worst estates on Caledonian Road, and I think it would take a tactical air strike to gentrify the place. You can still live in Zone 1 if you don't mind walking through the occasional rain of flattened beer cans from the local glue-sniffing 8-year-olds.

― dave q, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Watch it Dave, I used to live just over the road and once the landlord got a wee bit savvy he doubled the rent to 140 a week. So even shit holes can go up in value if they realise that you call it home...

― Pete, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

This is the problem with London, the prices go up and up and the areas don't even improve, because most of the people who live here are on housing benefit and don't pay any rent anyway. If they just forced everybody to actually pay rent they could move all the deadbeats out to Edmonton or somewhere and rents would normalize.

― dave q, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I mean, it's not like these people can't afford it, look at their designer trainers!

― dave q, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Where is Edmonton in England ?

― anthony, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Remote suburb on northern edge of London, complete shithole famous only for having a huge maladorous trash incinerator, where they send our trendy Islington waste.

― dave q, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Ah because i live in Edmononton and aside from the facist government and a gladhanding puppet we call Mayor it is a okay place to live.

― anthony, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Edmonton is also famous for having the "other" Angel - ie The Angel Edmonton. Locals are often pissed off when it is called the other Angel as - they rightly point out - there isn't actually an angel at Angel.

Gentrification is a vital part of any cities development - if certain areas aren't blowing hot and cold then the city ois pretty much dead. The question is though "where will the nurses live". But if prices drive essential support staff out of a city then that city will stop being so attractive - gentrification stops.

Living on Crouch End cusp it is odd to see how such a gentrified area is bounded by more mixed (council / ex-council) housing which stubornly refuses to be included in the process. In this I feel I am a trend setter, gentrifying the fifth floor of Iberia House. Its notable the number of junkies in our block has been massively reduced since we moved in.

― Pete, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

No, Pete, I have become a junkie since moving in. All those needles in the stairwell (which are invisible to everyone except people attending community meetings) are mine.

― Emma, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

gentrification is an essential part of the changing life of a city. upcoming areas, downcoming areas, the rest of it. the opposite of gentrification is the myth of the 'traditional unchanging city'. bohemians pave the way for what follows, sowing the seeds of their own eventual removal.

i think the knock on effects are fascinating. eg - as suz says, people forced out of shoreditch into dalston, stoke newington etc. AND THEN, the people they displace forced into Stamford Hill, Clapton, Stratford etc

― gareth, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The problem isn't the changing social strata of a city region, its the ossification that sets in once gentrification has become irreversible (eg no matter how unfash Kensington becomes, it's never going to be interesting again).

― Tom, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think the saddest story of Gentrification is Central Square, Cambridge, MA. What used to be a multi-cultural area, where you could get cheap and good food, go to independently owned shops, is now being sqeezed by MIT and Harvard and becoming Starbucked, Gaped, and Malled.

I think we've walked by your estate on Caledonian Road. I'm scared of Caledonian road, yet I would like a bigger apartment at the rate I'm currently paying in Crouch End. Stoke-Newington would be nice, but it's just as expensive now. Where do Pete and Emma live in Crouch End?

― marianna, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

We are not telling you! You might be a psycho stalker!

It is an ex-council flat that is on the tip of Crouch End, not in Haringey but Islington. However it is very nicely tarted up and has panoramic views of the rest of the housing estate and Canary Wharf.

― Emma, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think the saddest story of Gentrification is Central Square, Cambridge, MA.

I REALLY wanted to buy a place in Central Square. I lived there for two years and really loved it. Then, just as I moved, they started kicking everyone out and homogenizing the place. It's really tragic. Harvard Square has undergone a similar transformation; the gigantic A&F at the corner of Mass. Ave and JFK makes me physically ill. They bounced The Tasty for that?

― Dan Perry, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Yeah, the Tasty was at least immortalized in film, albeit a crap film (good will hunting). I guess they only place left to go is Inman square or whatchamacalit sqaure just beyond that. Though they aren't anywhere near a T stop, so I guess they're not that good.

I don't stalk, I just like to follow people. We live on the Hornsey side of Crouchy near the site of the Bus Crash!

― marianna, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I never heard it called Crouchy before. At our end we call it Croucher. You can stalk Pete if you like, it makes him feel wanted.

― Emma, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

recent Bostonian conversation " Want to go to Central Square? " "TO do what?" " Yeah, nevermind"

― Mike Hanle y, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Here's how it happens, Londoners. First, Thatcher let people buy council flats for practically nada. It became profitable to sell on ex- council places starting in about '95, so all the original buyers took the money and ran to the nearest Wimpey home development they liked (eeeeew). Then buy to rent landlords bought these flats and started renting out at market rents. Blame the estate agents for the rise and rise of prices of total shithole rental accomodation in council flats. Dave, yours is probably next on the list. JUST WAIT until they revive whatever architect who designed your estate...

Meanwhile, artists started renting cheap'n'bleak studio spaces and converting them to live-in accomodation, which allowed the developers to argue successfully for zoning changes and boot all the artists out in favour of yuppie wankers, ooh, five years later.

― suzy, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think the architect was Carl Andre

― dave q, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Yeah Emma? That's why my side of Crouchy is awesome and your side sucks rocks. This clock tower ain't big enough for the two of us... Wanna get breakfast on Saturday sometime?

― marianna, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Wasnt Carl Andre the rather boring minimalist instalation artist who got busted for murder ?
Suzy speaks worldwide truth , it is what happened to us here

― anthony, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Oh dear.... I am never out of bed before CDUK (i.e. 12:30) on a Saturday. Breakfast does not exist at weekends.

― Emma, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I have had breakfast at weekends in your very flat, Emma, made by the Barnet ape himself, and you were there.

― Tom, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well when I have visitors I sometimes make an effort to get up. However I am sure you will agree, Tom, that I am not at my best when I have just got up.

― Emma, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

But Barbella does serve a nice Breakfast Burrito at 12:30.

― marianna, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well we'll all be starting early for TRIGGERFEST this Saturday I daresay.

Anyhoo all this fighting about the various bits of Crouch End. We used to live just by Hornsey Station - but on the other side of the Tracks (ie near Green Lanes) so we are well versed in the minutae of the area. You probably live very near out excellent landlord.

― Pete, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

People get pissed at starbucks but not at Mobil where they buy their gas, not at Snickers bars they eat, not at the Theatre multiplex. I'm not fan of Starfucks but why do peopl e single it out so?

― Mike Hanle y, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Probably because it's a sign of how gentrified your neighborhood has become. My sister lives in Lincoln Park, the most thoroughly yuppified neighborhood in Chicago, and she has, like, six Starbucks within walking distance of her apartment. I have only one.

Also, I think Starbucks is symbolic in that it's a corporate replacement for the neighborhood cafe, one of the mainstays of urban life. One cool thing about my neighborhood is that we have two neighborhood cafes that have successfully fended off Starbucks encroachment. Anyway, Starbucks' coffee is the worst shit I've ever tasted. Dunkin' Donuts has great coffee *and* they're not on every other street corner. Starbucks' sweets are overpriced as well.

Anyway, I don't patronize Mobil, either, because I'm rather anti-car.

― Kerry, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Stabucks is seen as more offensive because it pretends not to be and also because of its overt branding of not only the coffee but of the activities coffee is assumed to facilitate eg conversation, having fun.

― Tom, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I guess you're right. But I disagree about the brew. I dont go there for cups of coffee, but I can only drink Starbucks French Roast. No other coofee approaches it. Bu I buy it in the supermarket anyways , I dont go to their cafes. Agreed their techniques are wrong and infuriating, putting out of business the "ma and pa" unique places. See "Boston's Cafes". Boston is shitty for its lack of ANY privately owned cafes.

― Mike Hanle y, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

STARBUCKS HAS THE WORST COFFEE IN THE WORLD. IT IS BITTER AND DISGUSTING. MIKE, YOU NEED TO GROW BACK YOUR TASTE BUDS BECAUSE THEY ARE OBVIOUSLY MISSING.

End of my rant against the Starbucks machine.

― Ally, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I bet you have never even had it Ally. You feelings hurter

― Mike Hanle y, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Ah, but Boston's lack of cafe's is due to Starbucks coming in and buying out local chains and independent stores. There's a great Cafe at the top of Central Square called 1369. There used to be Liberty there too. And then there's that one near the capitol building that stays open late. Can't remember that one's name. There are a lot of little cafe's in Harvard Square.. Pamplona is alright.

The European Coffee House is very different from the American Coffee House. Can't exactly say how, but something to do with matching chairs/tables. The only thing that comes close to the American Coffee House in London that I know of is the something or other arts cafe behind angel tube station.

― marianna, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I always forget what I was going to say...

I find Starbucks espresso to be quite bitter, but I really like their frappacinos. When I moved to Boston from Michigan I couldn't take normal coffee anywhere; east coast coffee is so much stronger. I got used to it eventually.

When I came home for breaks, I knew I was in the midwest when people started looking me in the eye, and the coffee tasted like water.

― marianna, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I've heard they're opening up an "Irving Plaza"-style club/discotheque in WILLIAMSBURG. Good Lord. When I first visited (approx. 9 years ago) there were TWO business on Bedford Ave. - the deli and Senko Funeral Home.

But this is complicated. Property values going up = good, right? More bookstores are good. The Main Drag guitar shop on Bedford = ace. I could probably even learn to live with the discotheque. People who complain about Williamsburg "not being like it was" make me wanna throw shit around - it used to SUX0R!

― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Mike, I've had more Starbucks French Roast than any human being should ever have in their entire life. It's so upsetting. Our workplace ONLY orders bags of that, despite every single person in the office hating it with a passion. It's bitter, bitter, bitter coffee, everyone puts like 5 or 6 sugars in to buffer the taste. It's like aspirin! I understand they need bitter coffee grinds to mix with their sweet drinks, which is why the sweet ones are so good - not TOO sweet because they have such a bitter base. However, there's no reason to drink practically gasoline without all that frappucino/chai spice/latte bullshit on top of it.

― Ally, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Williamsburg, urrrgh. Does the place remind anyone else of one of those college towns where all the heterosexual couples wear matching alterna- outfits?

That grumble aside, I have been shopping Domseys since the '80s, when in town. It's still nice and cheap despite skyrocketing rents of surrounding areas and Yup Couples In Training. Last time I was there, the subject of FT's AICON 19 bought all that skankwear you can see in the photo and felt smug when photographed by Japanese fashion tourists. I lurked nearby, snickering. Hur-hur-hur SETUP!

― suzy, Wednesday, 1 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Note to English people - if you really want for your local cafes to not get replaced by Starbucks, maybe gently remind them of things that will help maintain their custom? Things like - having everything that's displayed on the menu board in stock, not running out of the 'lunch special' by 11:30 AM, not serving Nescafe, keeping insects out of food, not buying wobbly tables at jumble sales, replacing the bog roll every so often, actually having pre-ordered sandwiches ready for when you intend to pick them up, things like that. Local cafes = DUD

― dave q, Thursday, 2 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Frothy coffee with Nescafe as main ingredient = crappucino. Exterminate!

― suzy, Thursday, 2 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Starbucks et al = seething dens of thieves who know that anyone fool enough to cough up the best part of 2 quid for a crappy coffee that is mostly foam will have large amounts of cash, mobile phone etc. about their person for them to steal. Yes, I mean you, Manhattan Coffee Shop in Crouch End. No longer am I fool enough to go into coffee shops.

― Emma, Thursday, 2 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Leave it to London to consider Starbuck's a step up. U can walk into any deli in New York and get a 50-60c cuppa coffee, milk and sugar added for you however you specify, 5 napkins, extra sugar, wrapped in five bags of varying construction, all in about 5 seconds. Starbucks: two dollars for gasoline-flavored coffee that you have to lighten/sweeten yourself; no bag; no napkins. Paying a premium for bad service = dud.

― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 2 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Ally you brute! If you need more sugar than you USE MORE SUGAR! I USE ( PACKETS MESELF! MHEEHEE HEHEE! I LOVE IT! I'm HAPPY AS A JAYBIRD!

― Mike Hanle y, Thursday, 2 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The proliferation of coffee houses is one of the things that improved my quality of life at work the most. It used to be a choice between Benji's, Pointi's or some gravel in water from the machine. I would have three cups before I left for work to keep me going for as long as I could.

Now the City is over run with trendy coffee places, and the benefit of making the morning more palatable without having to arrange a bogus meeting to get coffee bought in from the kitchen is well worth my £1.15.

Suggesting that the City is getting gentrified might be considered a bit off-topic, however.

― He's Not Here, Thursday, 2 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

TO be honest only I can make my coffee and I never let anyone meddle with my brewing and mixing. I am a coffee snob. I can't help it. If loving dark rich java is a crime, I need a lawyer

― Mike Hanle y, Friday, 3 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Ultra-strong coffee = CLASSIC. If you don't like bitter things, why are you drinking coffee? Mountain Dew has more caffeine and is citrusy and refreshing.

In principle, I dislike gentrification. Now that I own my own home, though, I kind of hope that the suburban blight rolls over my neighborhood, casuing our condo to quadruple in value and allowing me to write checks for the entirety of my wife's schooling rather than taking out loans. (Being able to put aside lump sums for future childrens' college tuition would be nice, too.)

When Cyndi Lauper sang, "Money Changes Everything," she was SO RIGHT.

― Dan Perry, Friday, 3 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

If coffee's meant to be so bitter, why do they make coffee ice creams?

― Tom, Friday, 3 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Tom, why do you have to be so fecking difficult. COffee ice cream is made with caramel anyways, not coffee. You sanka-brain

― Mike Hanle y, Friday, 3 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Tom, why do you have to be so fecking difficult. COffee ice cream is made with caramel anyways, not coffee. You sanka-brain!!

― Mike Hanle y, Friday, 3 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Because aside from green tea, they haven't mastered the art of the bitter ice cream flavor.

― Dan Perry, Friday, 3 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"Bitter" != "strong". I like strong coffee, but I don't like coffee that is *bitter* simply because A Certain Coffee Chain burns its beans to make them taste "strong".

A really good cup of coffee is *robust*, not bitter and acidic.

― Kerry Keane, Friday, 3 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

MIke, I think it's quite wonderful that you bothered to repost that just in order to add two exclamation marks.

― Nick, Friday, 3 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I like Starbucks coffee. It isn't the best coffee I've ever had, but it suffices.

― Tadeusz Suchodolski, Friday, 3 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

THanks Nick, I decided I wasn't getting me point across. Kerry = you must be one of those "dark -roast -wusses" . THat's why Starbucks invented "light note " varieties. Tastes nice and orange juicey cardboardy spahgetti saucey pea flavour. UYRK!

― Mike Hanle y, Friday, 3 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I actually like dark roast - it's burnt roast that I *don't* like.

Subtlety, man. It's the same in cooking, and Americans over-do it on salt, seasonings and oil as well.

― Kerry Keane, Friday, 3 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

mea culpa. mea maxima culpa

― Mike Hanle y, Friday, 3 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Mea grande latte.

― Dan Perry, Friday, 3 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

pro bono, cappucino quid pro quo

― Mike Hanle y, Friday, 3 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

couldn't we, like, talk about coffee or something instead?

― gareth, Friday, 3 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

one month passes...

I think that either Philadelphia or Pittsburgh will be the next great American cities to be destroyed in toto by the trendy gentrifiers.

― Tadeusz Suchodolski, Saturday, 29 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Hey Hanle y, is Kansas City gentrifying these days?

― Tadeusz Suchodolski, Saturday, 29 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

the fucking potholes sure arent.

― Mike Hanle y, Saturday, 29 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

And what's the deal in Edmonton, Mr. Anthony?

― Tadeusz Suchodolski, Saturday, 29 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Its getting worse. The phillips buiding is down , All these cool old buildings are being reclaimed by lofts. We're losing and the poor is losing as well

― anthony, Saturday, 29 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

one year passes...

Oh no! A starbucks appears to be opening up soon on the Crouch End Broadway! Will it drive the local Manhatten Coffe Co out of business?

― marianna, Wednesday, 19 March 2003 12:33 (twenty-three years ago)

Where? Some of us (Emma) have no love for Manhattan Coffee Company anyway - it being the site of the most heinous crime of the century.

― Pete (Pete), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 12:43 (twenty-three years ago)

bad coffee?

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 12:45 (twenty-three years ago)

It looks like it'll be opening up about 5 or 6 shops up the steet from the Manhatten Coffee Co - or at least that's what I assume from the Starbucks cardboard box stuff that's lining the windows now - and a Starbucks coming soon sign.

― marianna, Wednesday, 19 March 2003 12:48 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh fuck. I thought it was safe

― Anna (Anna), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 13:06 (twenty-three years ago)

Strangely no starbucks that close to us in Clerkenwell.

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 13:08 (twenty-three years ago)

Maybe its a Battlestar Galactica Theme Park?

― Pete (Pete), Wednesday, 19 March 2003 13:13 (twenty-three years ago)

Whoo hoo. More handbags for me to nab from unsuspecting coffee sippers.

― Crack Whore and Handbag Snatcher of Crouch End, Wednesday, 19 March 2003 13:18 (twenty-three years ago)

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