Help me determine if I'm wrong.

So I just offended someone with my opinions and am wondering if I can strike gold again. Well...not really, but I'd like some outside opinions.

I believe:

1. Taking your 4-year-old niece to the park because you want to have fun with her is a great idea and very cool of you. If you want to take pictures to remember the fun you had, it's cool, too.

2. Taking your 4-year-old niece to the park because you want to use her for a school project is not cool. Dictating her moves (e.g., Now get on the slide. Ok, now get on the swing.) against her preference so you get a good shot is exploitative and also not cool.

(Posting this on a message board for advice is also not cool, but I'm not naming people, so it is cool.)

Am I wrong about numbers 1 and 2? If so, how?

Children under 5 are property of their parents. If the parents of said 4yo said the picture taking was cool, it was cool.

Mind your own, dude.

You are wrong about both #1 & #2. Children should not be taken, that's kidnapping!

i would be annoyed if i was 4 and my parents farmed me out to my uncle to make me do stuff, property of parents or not

Children under 5 are property of their parents. If the parents of said 4yo said the picture taking was cool, it was cool.

Your logic is flawed, and I can think of plenty of reasons off the top of my head to support that. Parents do not always know/do what's best for their children.

You're probably right about minding my own, though...

is this crepe school

Cool as in acceptable, or cool as in hip, suave, etc?

All kids are good for is photographing. They have SO many more points of articulation than an action figure of a child.

why would telling a kid to go on a slide instead of a seesaw for a picture be any of your concern?? if the child was being threatened or yelled at to make them do it, then the adult was in the wrong, otherwise, not any of your business.

This kid will grow up to be the next Albert Fish after this playground trauma.

did this guy drum for Phish?

if kid is having fun in #2 there is nothing wrong with it

Eh, no 2 doesn't sound like that big a deal. The state of being a child is basically a constant barrage of being made to do things you don't wanna as far as I can remember.

^^^
Which makes it sound like I was systematically abused.

i think you are wrong. on the whole children love being photographed and playing up to the camera.

This is a minor act of exploitation. It's not worth having an argument with yr GF over.

Even if the kid doesn't enjoy it that much, it's not exactly on the level of serious parental wrong.

If the kid is enjoying it (and parents have consented), then what is the harm?

If this were, say, nude playground activities, then you'd have a good case.

if the child was in a coal mine, then you'd want to call up your local muckraker.

Suppose the monkey bars she was s'posed to play on had razors on them? That's pretty clear-cut.

posing on the slide is a slippery slope to more sinister exploitation.

If this were, say, nude playground activities, then you'd have a good case.

― meta pro lols (libcrypt), Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:52 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark

Well, there's Sally Mann.

on the whole children love being photographed and playing up to the camera.

― jed_, Tuesday, March 17, 2009 8:47 PM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark

Even if the kid doesn't enjoy it that much, it's not exactly on the level of serious parental wrong.

― Bonobos in Paneradise (Hurting 2), Tuesday, March 17, 2009 8:50 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark

I agree with both of these statements, but is it a behavior that should be encouraged? I mean, I'm not arguing this in Highlander-mode, but I just feel kind of uncomfortable with it. It fucking sickens me when people put children in beauty pageants...this is about 10 notches below that, but it's still on the list of things that make me feel slightly uncomfortable. One the one hand, I enjoy videos of funny kids on youtube, but on the other hand, I have to ask myself what kind of a parent would do that to their child. I think it's borderline exploitation, and that side of it irks me. One thing that bothers me about the scenario (#2) I mentioned is that the person in question was taking something the child loved to do and distorting its purpose for their own selfish (though not malicious) agenda. Surely there are some (possibly insignificant) psychological consequences of asking a child to pose and ham it up for the camera.

they'll turn to a life of drugs and pornography when they're older

mentioned is that the person in question was taking something the child loved to do and distorting its purpose for their own selfish (though not malicious) agenda.

I think you're overthinking this

i think you are overthinking this a bit.
woah xpost!

I think it's perfectly ok to ask a child to pose for pictures in the situation described as long as it's not some kind of bait and switch where the kid doesn't get to run around and free-play on their own some, too.

iatee and tehresa. otm re: overthinking

It sounds like you're objecting to the manipulation and controlling aspect of getting the kid to pose. If the photographer just followed the child around and took candids, would you have a problem with it?

It sounds like you're objecting to the manipulation and controlling aspect of getting the kid to pose. If the photographer just followed the child around and took candids, would you have a problem with it?

― Super Cub, Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:31 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark

I would still prefer that they just take their niece to the park and play with them and spend quality time like normal family should, but I have less of a problem with the scenario you propose. I'd still feel bad for the kid, though, 'cause their family member is following them around like paparazzi.

Everyone OTM re: overthinking this, but I still think a psychologist somewhere will vindicate me in the end.

I would still prefer that they just take their niece to the park and play with them and spend quality time like normal family should, but I have less of a problem with the scenario you propose. I'd still feel bad for the kid, though, 'cause their family member is following them around like paparazzi.

society these days, with families all taking photographs of their young relatives.

psychologists vindicate all kinds of hypersensitive bullshit.

> I'd still feel bad for the kid, though, 'cause their family member is following them around like paparazzi.

Are you serious? You know that for decades now nearly every parent who could afford to (basically all western civilization) has been on this tip? I mean, parents take pictures of their kids all the time. It's part of what being a parent is.

xps

I think maybe a camera killed brightscreamer's brother.

society these days, with families all taking photographs of their young relatives.

I trust you are just kidding and really understand the difference between the scenario I described and "families taking photographs."

i'm more worried about the camera stealing the poor child's soul

If parents following their kids around for the entire birthday/day at the park/etc taking photos and barking orders to "stand here no dont blink I dont care if the sun is in your face SMILE DAMMIT" every ten minutes is wrong, then my parents must be terrible, terrible people.

(hint: they arent, btw)

Are you serious? You know that for decades now nearly every parent who could afford to (basically all western civilization) has been on this tip? I mean, parents take pictures of their kids all the time. It's part of what being a parent is.

My parents never took me to the park and posed me for pictures. Word. Also, most parents feed their kids McDonald's. Doesn't mean it's good for them.

Also, you said "neice" in your OP and "parents" later on. Who is actually directing this poor overworked kid - its parents, or its aunt/uncle? Not that it rly should matter.

I was posed for pics all the time and I never ate McDonalds, what do you know.

"Help me determine if I'm wrong."

We have done this. You are. Sorry. It happens. And for the record, feeding kids McDonald's (in reasonable moderation) isn't wrong either.

If parents following their kids around for the entire birthday/day at the park/etc taking photos and barking orders to "stand here no dont blink I dont care if the sun is in your face SMILE DAMMIT" every ten minutes is wrong, then my parents must be terrible, terrible people.

I'm not saying anyone is a terrible person, but does that make it right?

I think you're pulling some of the most singular challops I've witnessed this Tuesday.

Eh, its what mums do! My mum, my aunty, my nan, family friends - they all did it, all our young lives! It was a pain in the butt (I hate having my photo taken and hate it more when it's an artificial smile/pose) but I dont think it is "wrong" in the "bad for a kid" sense, no.

I think conflating this to something like Little Miss Springfield is a bit pointless, too.

(xpost) accusing someone of exploiting a four year old is pretty close to calling someone a terrible person.

Children in question being photographed:

http://www.alsolikelife.com/images/photos/CAPTURE-6.jpg

We have done this. You are. Sorry. It happens. And for the record, feeding kids McDonald's (in reasonable moderation) isn't wrong either.

Wow...I'm not trying to upset anyone here. If you're getting mad, please realize you don't have to read any of this. Also, abstaining from fast food is reasonable.

So I just offended someone with my opinions and am wondering if I can strike gold again.

I think your earlier plan about finding a psychologist somewhere that will vindicate you is a good backup plan since nobody agrees with you in real life or online.

My mom-in-law the LCSW would agree with you. OTOH she blamed for getting raped on a child molestation that didn't happen, that I "repressed."

Allow me to be the first to yell, SOCK!!!!

Maybe I should STFU. This question is silly and hilarious. Have you never seen a child or a parent before, ever?

If I came of a little brusquely there I apologize. I'm not getting mad. And yeah, abstaining from fast food is reasonable, too. It's not going to last forever, though. Sooner or later someone is gonna give a kid a happy meal. And it won't be the end of the world.

FWIW, I haven't eaten at McDonald's for over 20 years, starting when I flipped clownburgers in my first High School job.

So I just offended someone with my opinions and am wondering if I can strike gold again.

― i'm shy (Abbott), Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:14 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

That was such an obvious attempt at humor.

Well, I guess I should apologize to everyone I've upset today. For the record, I admit my faults and understand at the end of the day it's none of my business. People are getting a little too touchy around here (pot calling kettle black, amirite?) and hive-minding against me even though I'm not trying to upset people. I just had a mental block I wanted to work through with the opinions of others and sincerely apologize for any offense I may have caused.

For the record, I'm not a sock and I'm not trolling. I'm just a normal dude who loves the ILX community and wanted some opinions.

'salright. Gave me a poll idea, at least.

Who have you upset? You've just had everyone say "whut no! Ppl make their kids pose awkwardly for pix all the time, its no big thang". I dont think you OFFENDED anyone!

i was photographed as a child and then some years later the principal photographers visited me in rehab and said, 'why' and i didn't know what to say, i looked down at the cigarette i was rolling with my thin fingers and didn't reply, but today i finally learned 'why' so in a minute i am going to send them a furious accusatory email and cc the rest of the family, it can be another healing step for us all.

loooooooool