Man who died during the G20 protest was pushed to the ground by a police officer- video

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7988828.stm

this is posted on the "J0rdan approves of cops killing protestors (challops)" thread

also he doesn't just push him, he hits him in the back of the knees with his baton then pushes him.

didn't see it, but it's a story that will run and run so deserves it's own thread and will be easier to find when it needs to be revived when the whitewash report comes out

Your new username is kinda rough for this thread.

(x-post)

when I saw the beginning of this thread title I thought it was going to be another horrible "what's on yr iPod" thread

the way the thread title started i though it was going to end in a "what's on yr iPod?" : \

lol xpost

dont give anyone ideas

"Push It"
"Keep on Pushing"
"I'm Your Pusherman"

(Sorry, that's awful.)

"Sheer heartattack".

more awful

"Hello, Again We Bludgeon"

A++++ combination of display name and content xxp

Really wish someone would shove Daniel Sandford onto the ground by thrashing him with batons so the film of him dying could have the "HE HITS THE GROUND AND DOESN'T APPEAR TO BE BADLY HURT" voiceover.

What happened to Marcello? I thought he would be all over this thread with his challops

Earlier, Mr Tomlinson's family made an appeal for witnesses.

A statement from the family said: "Ian was a massive football fan and would have looked distinctive in his Millwall top.

"He was probably on his way back from work to watch the England match and got caught up in the crowds."

Old habits die hard for the police.

I'm pretty sure Marcello disapproves strongly of innocent people being attacked on the street by police to the extent that they subsequently die, but feel free to carry on being either naive or disingenuous, whichever one it is.

didn't wanna risk the SBs

When I first saw this I thought the guy was actually hit in the back of the head with a baton, which properly freaked me out. Still, it already seems pretty evident that the police witheld the bit about knocking him to the floor and hitting him from any statement following his death.

official police story is probably that he slipped on a banana peel that had been deliberately placed there by drunken, irresponsible, violent anarchists

If only they'd had a taser, they wouldn't have pushed him like that.

Ned T to thread

This story makes me sick to my stomach.

I think the key thing that's going to be used in argument *for* the police, is whether the heart attack can be linked to the pushing. WhichI foresee as, *uses crystal ball* = no connection.

It's common assault at least, whatever way you look at it.

Less than five minutes after being roughly pushed to the ground from behind, he had a heart attack. Nope, no connection.

also, i'm sure that we haven't heard the last of that dude's alcohol problem

despite him not having had a drink that day

What possible relevance could that have? Maybe he had a heart condition, was anemic, had diabetes, and was addicted to crack. So what?

I think lex's referring/comparing to when they said De Menezes had taken cocaine at some point in his past and therefore it was OK he got shot.

Ah I see

"the message"

i'm guessing something like "he was behaving strangely" - idk maybe he was twitching or slow to respond, as alcoholics can be - therefore they were justified in their actions or some other bs

When I first saw this I thought the guy was actually hit in the back of the head with a baton, which properly freaked me out. Still, it already seems pretty evident that the police witheld the bit about knocking him to the floor and hitting him from any statement following his death.

this was like a little bit before he died though right? i mean they might not even know that this happened until the video came out? what were the timings of the events from pushing to dying?

worse than alcohol problem, guys

A statement from the family said: "Ian was a massive football fan and would have looked distinctive in his Millwall top.

It was less that five minutes I believe, ken.

if that group of poilcemen were no longer at that scene (e.g. if either party had moved elsewhere) it is quite plausible that they hadn't linked the two things together.

it's quite miraculous actually that whoever took the video had spotted it was the same guy

Just a small incident, everyone calm down.

this was like a little bit before he died though right? i mean they might not even know that this happened until the video came out? what were the timings of the events from pushing to dying?

Yeah, there were only about a dozen officers who witnessed this going on.

Jacqui Smith has apparently now called for an enquiry after seeing videos of a man shoved forcibly to the ground after receiving a baton from behind.

Ned T to thread

― ljubljana, Wednesday, April 8, 2009 2:39 AM (9 hours ago) Bookmark

Haha. Well I'm not as up-to-date as I once was, Riot City is all houses now, it's a new era, etc. and it's been a while since I chatted with the Met about their tactics. If only they'd listened to me...But this isn't really about tactics. I personally think that the British policing of protests generally is amongst the best in the world, which is not saying much. Oh shit, I already want to write a thousand words qualifying that last statement.

i must say the man was already walking around like a zombie, probably had a heart attack coming anyway. (not that the police officer isn't way too rude)

fuck off

hi jim!

lol

srsly the guy looks drunk.

just to save my image here. i don't think he was expecting that push at all. so maybe it scared him to death.
(yet my first opinion stands) :)

the city o' london is like the most cctv'd up place in the whole world. there'll blatantly be more video evidence a mysterious bug that wipes all the cctv footage

predict a rehab campaign by the mail then a slot on 'dancing on ice'

Certainly dancing on ice right now IMO.

Before this, another protestor Harwood attended to 'ran into a door'.

Ryder: You're ahead of him? But he has run into the door has he?
Harwood: ... I don't know, you'll have to ask him.
Ryder: From the video, can you see him running into the door?
Harwood: He has gone and hit the door, collided with the door, yes.
Ryder: Do you understand the word 'run', PC Harwood?

hahaha

he knows it doesn't matter what he says, how bad his testimony is, when he's never going to be prosecuted.

I'd lay odds he's hanging himself out to dry, imo.

If there's no prosecution after testimony like that, wld lv to see some spontaneous rioting.

Me too; here's today's blog link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2011/apr/06/ian-tomlinson-inquest-live-updates

Retracing snippets of video, Matthew Ryder is suggesting that the newspaper vendor was moving in the direction police wanted him to go. The footage shows Tomlinson moving slowly, but continuously, away from police in a south-westerly direction. Ryder said this showed Tomlinson was clearly not moving toward police.

Harwood: "From the peripheral vision I had at the time, he was."
Ryder: "I thought you told us yesterday that your balaclava didn't give you peripheral vision?"
Harwood: "I meant from the perceived angle that I could see."

The exchange continues in this way, until Ryder again accuses Harwood of lying.

Ryder: "That is rubbish PC Harwood, and you know it."
Harwood: "I was there and I saw what I saw."

Dude should certainly lose his position on the police force, as he clearly has a neurological disease that prevents him from telling the difference between "ahead of" and "behind," "moving towards" vs. "moving away," "being hit in the head" vs. "not being hit in the head," etc.

I'd lay odds he's hanging himself out to dry, imo.

yeah his testimony is SO poor that this actually seems plausible

Go to prison? This dude is getting early retirement with a full pension, more like.

This dude is getting the full force of justice, if only to prove that it can happen...

Mark, what do you think the full force of justice would be in this case?

hey not all cops are bad u know, lol.

Well, forced to resign, gets jail sentence, that's about it.

No "full" pension.

How long has he been a PC?

Right now, he's cannon fodder for the rest of the force to show they are 'not beyond the law' so they can carry on regardless.

I thought there would be no criminal charges because there was a fuck up with the coroners report.

OK, so delete "jail sentence", the rest stands though.

It's just what I reckons, prob wrong.

On 22 July 2010, Keir Starmer, director of the CPS, announced there would be no prosecution because of the medical disagreement between the three pathologists. Freddy Patel's conclusion about natural causes conflicted with the conclusions of Nathaniel Cary and Kenneth Shorrock, who found that the cause of death was internal bleeding caused by blunt force trauma to the abdomen, in association with cirrhosis of the liver. The CPS decided that the conflict made prosecution difficult because Patel was the only pathologist to have seen Tomlinson's body intact, placing him in the best position to make a judgment, which meant his evidence would have undermined that of the other two pathologists, in the view of the CPS. The CPS therefore concluded it would not be able to prove beyond reasonable doubt that there was a causal link between Tomlinson's death and the alleged assault. The CPS described the disagreement between the pathologists as an irreconcilable conflict. Starmer said there was enough evidence to charge the officer with assault, but there was a six-month deadline for that, which had expired while the CPS procrastinated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Ian_Tomlinson#Legal_aftermath

Good old Freddy Patel:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/mar/31/g20-pathologist-freddy-patel-suspended

^Helpful, historyyyyyyyy. (many xposts)

My uncle, who I probably miss the most of all my dead rels, was a lieutenant detective in charge of vice and special forces investigations, who apparently also pioneered victim restitution schemes and did consulting work for film and television on the side (most of that work was for David Chase in the late '70s and '80s). Every once in a while he'd give the local press heads-up on corruption within the ranks, as he took the protect/serve thing pretty fucking seriously.

My blood is boiling over this asshole's conduct in uniform specifically because my uncle was an excellent cop who would never have stood for this shit on his watch.

Oh, Freddy Patel, you're a mug. Dodgy forensic examiner in not-Quincy shocker:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2011/apr/13/ian-tomlinson-inquest-live-updates

man who died during the G20 protest was killed by a police officer - verdict

PaulLewis Paul Lewis
Ian Tomlinson was unlawfully killed by a police officer, a jury has found. 2 minutes ago

I couldn't see how they could come to any other conclusion based on the testimony posted/linked

you're right, but getting a ruling of unlawful killing involving a police officer in the uk is v rare, especially in a crowd situation. usually something like the dodgy first postmortem would have held up. it's only because so many people have video cameras now that we've been able to establish the truth, so it's sort of historic.

and there's a political dimension in the initial failure of prosecutors to bring charges. although apparently they still can? i think i got this wrong upthread.

That's what I expected, yes.

getting a ruling of unlawful killing involving a police officer in the uk is v rare

yep

Wow, timing: Pick a day it's unlikely to appear on the front pages.

xp 9 since 1991 - several later overturned. none successfully prosecuted.

http://inquest.gn.apc.org/website/statistics/unlawful-killing-verdicts

and there's a political dimension in the initial failure of prosecutors to bring charges. although apparently they still can? i think i got this wrong upthread.

my recollection is that They decided that the cop in question could be prosecuted for a lesser charge, but then revealed that oh-dear They had not got round to making a decision until the statute of limitations for said lesser charge kicked in. With the more serious charge of murder or manslaughter there is no statute of limitations relevant here.

A prosecution would still be difficult, given that there was the first dodgy postmortem, but the inquest decision here would have had the same standard of proof as a criminal trial, except that the inquest only rules that Tomlinson was unlawfully killed, not that Maniac Cop in particular killed him.

LATEST: Director of public prosecutions will announce tomorrow whether police officer who pushed Ian Tomlinson at G20 protests will be prosecuted for manslaughter. More details soon ...

*braces self for CPS fuck-up*

to redeploy an old private eye joke, police manslaughter vs policeman's laughter

PaulLewis Paul Lewis
Breaking *unconfirmed*: Met police officer to face trial for manslaughter over death of Ian Tomlinson

yes just announced on the radio

when I saw the beginning of this thread title I thought it was going to be another horrible "what's on yr iPod" thread

― maybe u should tell that to your laughing vagina (HI DERE), Tuesday, April 7, 2009 9:22 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

It does *almost* read like that, yes...

A police officer accused of killing newspaper seller Ian Tomlinson during the G20 protests in London in 2009 is to stand trial at the Old Bailey.

Scotland Yard Pc Simon Harwood appeared at City of Westminster Magistrates' Court charged with manslaughter. He was bailed until 17 October.

I think this qualifies as 'thrown to the lions', I reckons.

Breaking news:

Jury clears PC Simon Harwood of killing Ian Tomlinson during G20 protests in London in April 2009. More details soon …

The verdict, after four days of deliberations, brings about something of a legal contradiction: 14 months ago another jury, at the inquest into Tomlinson's death, ruled that he was unlawfully killed by Harwood. The inquest ruling was made on the same burden of proof, beyond reasonable doubt, as a criminal trial.

Neither jury heard details of Harwood's prior disciplinary record, which can only be reported now. This includes how he quit the Met on health grounds in 2001 shortly before a planned disciplinary hearing into claims he illegally tried to arrest a driver following a road rage incident while off duty, altering his notes to retrospectively justify the actions. Harwood was nonetheless able to join another force, Surrey, before returning to serve with the Met in 2005.

He allegedly punched, throttled, kneed or threatened other suspects while in uniform in other alleged incidents.

Seems like a nice lad

No police officer has been convicted for manslaughter for a crime committed while on duty since 1986.

The issue of cause of death saw the testimony of the first pathologist, Dr Freddy Patel, who reasserted his belief that Tomlinson died from heart failure, placed against that of Dr Nat Cary, who told the court that even a relatively small amount of internal bleeding would have caused death. The jury was not told that Patel has twice been suspended by medical authorities for mistakes in other postmortem examinations and is no

ladies and gentlemen, big freddy patel

oh the last line i missed was, unsurprisingly;

- longer on the Home Office's register of approved pathologists.

Earlier this month, the disciplinary panel found Patel's 2002 reports on the death of Sally White – the first victim of the "Camden ripper" Anthony Hardy – were "irresponsible, not of the standard expected of a competent forensic pathologist and liable to bring the medical profession into disrepute".

Patel decided that White, a 31-year-old sex worker, had died of natural causes despite blood staining her clothing, bedding and a wall at Hardy's flat. Patel said she had died of a heart attack during consensual sex. This discouraged a police investigation that might have saved two later victims of Hardy, an earlier hearing was told.

You can see why they might not have mentioned it.

Harwood was nonetheless able to join another force, Surrey, before returning to serve with the Met in 2005.

Worst/most hamfisted motto of these English police forces

Surrey's motto: 'With you, making Surrey safer'

More on that 2001 complaint from the Standard:

The jury was never told that the police officer who struck Ian Tomlinson had faced a series of allegations of violence and has admitted entering "red mist mode".

In 12 years from 1997 until his suspension after Mr Tomlinson's death, PC Simon Harwood was subject to 10 complaints.

The police watchdog has now raised "grave concerns" about the Met's vetting procedures after details of Pc Simon Harwood's disciplinary record were published.

Harwood was due to face internal proceedings in 2001 after being accused of unlawful arrest, abuse of authority and discreditable conduct but these were discontinued when he retired on medical grounds.

He was accused of shouting at another driver and knocking him over his car door, then announcing he was a police officer and arresting the motorist on a common assault charge.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jul/19/simon-harwood-disciplinary-proceedings

Within 18 months Harwood had successfully applied to become a uniformed officer again, this time with the neighbouring Surrey police force.

Less than a year later, in January 2004, he was again accused of using excessive force, in a complaint lodged by a fellow officer who was disturbed by how he had treated a suspect during a raid on a flat.

Two officers said they saw Harwood grab the man by the throat, punch him twice in the face and push him into a table, causing it to break.

Dr Freddy Patel acted with "deficient professional performance" over his postmortem investigation into the death of Ian Tomlinson during the G20 protests, a medical tribunal has concluded.

The pathologist's fitness to practise is "impaired by reason of misconduct", the Medical Practitioners Tribunal Service said.

The MPTS will now decide whether Patel should be struck off the medical register.

It found that Patel had "brought the profession into disrepute" and that his integrity could not be relied upon.

He also breached one of the "fundamental tenets of the profession" through his dishonesty, the panel said.