Susan Boyle - Cultural Phenom? C/D

Apologies if this discussion has already been started somewhere, but I didn't run into anything searching for her name or for Britain's Got Talent.

24 hours ago I had never heard of her nor given even a second of thought to Britain's Got Talent, but I've since been forwarded her YouTube clip by 14 different people of surprisingly wide-ranging tastes and interests. I deleted the first several e-mails without watching, as is my standard response to mass forwarded e-mails. I finally gave in and watched the 7 minute clip about her and goddamn if she didn't win me over despite my inborn cynicism. I think it was her feisty personality, in spite of everything, that won me over moreso than the voice.

I just find the whole thing quite interesting, as I don't think she'd get anywhere near that kind of reaction from an American audience if she appeared on one of our talent shows. But she still has managed to capture a large chunk of our imagination in a short time. The cynics are already in, an article in today's Chicago Tribune called into question Simon's reaction, insinuating that his and that of all the judge's just HAD to be fake.

For now, I say classic. If only for brightening up an otherwise crappy day for me yesterday.

yes it was quite nice. she did have a good voice, assuming she can learn to act she could do fine in stage musicals.

I think the judges reactions were faked, it was staged. But there's no denying the fact her voice is great and that people genuinely have been touched by it. My parents watched it all day on youtube yesterday.

"We three and this whole crowd behind us weren't expecting much when you walked out... y'know... because... uh......."

She didn't sound all that great to me, but it may have been my crappy computer speakers I suppose.

xpost
Is her voice that outstanding? I mean, obviously it's good for an amateur but I don't think anyone would be raving about it if it wasn't for her backstory.

she sounded good, but it made me uneasy the way all those shows do. i mean, they basically humiliated her even in the process of ostensibly celebrating her. "wow, you pathetic dozy cow, you can sing! we thought we were just going to laugh at you, but now we can laugh with you too. and congratulate ourselves for our suddenly warmed hearts."

good for her, but .... bleccch.

Oh I was definitely uncomfortable with the blatant insults they tossed at her, but those made me want to root for her even more.

^^^^ ditto (xp). her having a beautiful voice just gave ppl license to tell her that she's ugly. also kinda lol but mostly sad how we've gotten to where ppl think there's some kind of natural causal link between beauty and, like, talent.

i'm sure the beauty-talent causal link is v v v old

Her talent is very, very deniable. She is better than average for an amateur at best. I think people want to be part of the alleged victory, that's it.

Should I know who Susan Boyle is?

not like yt vids are embeddable

o wow how very badly staged.

I had avoided this until now, but just watched. So obviously staged and the whole thing fills me with endless rage. simon cowell should have his nuts cut off and shoved down his throat.

though obviously susan boyle herself is a sweetheart

Can't believe a back-story on Britain's Got Talent is staged tbh.

I think only the reactions were staged, I'm not cynical enough to believe the entire fucking thing was staged. Maybe that disqualifies me from posting on ILX though so pretend I never said it if you want.

I'm sure Ms Boyle is genuine enough, but the whole point of these shows is that everything else that happens is staged as fuck.

It's not even surprising or controversial, it's HOW THE SHOW WORKS.

I think thats understood. My particular fascination with this is how many Americans are latching on to the story, considering this isn't aired here and because normally they can't be bothered to give two shits about anything not happening outside of American Idol or Dancing with the Stars.

"not happening on"

I saw a headline today that said "Idol contestant saved" or something like that, and I thought it meant "saved from certain death" by rockslide or drunk driving accident or something...but no, it just meant "saved from elimination on the show". This is news? No wonder print news circulation is down blah blah blah

Ah right. I haven't watched the vid all the way thru but surely the American angle is it fits right in with those uplifting rainbow bullshit platitude emails that circulate so freely, plus she's a god-botherer. Plus you guys seem to really love Les Miz.

That's bizarre, it's not even a big story in the UK!

So she's the new Daniel Hannan?

why would americans need to youtube british talent show clips when they have lil kim on dancing with the stars?! i spent an hr last night youtubing that

^^^ So fucking impressed at her dancing with a ball and chain shackled to her ankle.

That's bizarre, it's not even a big story in the UK!

It is, in the sort of way that fascinates people at my work (breakfast telly, tabloids, probably several OK/Chat/Take a Break type mags when they get hold of her). Totally staged, touched by the hand of Cowell (hence American interest, obv, with American Idol connections - doesn't Piers Morgan do America's Got Talent as well?), and totally distasteful (OMG woman with mild learning disability/47 year old virgin/average middle-aged style-free woman from council estate in the Central Belt CAN ACTUALLY SING A BIT). Like an even less savvy Paul Potts. Easily manipulated to raise profile of ORDINARY PEOPLE CAN DO STUFF.

The audience and panel reactions to her walking on were horrible. She is obviously now being set up for some makeover which will see her with new eyebrows, big highlighted hair and an entire wardrobe of cruise-ship clothes.

Let's not be overly harsh on her voice; she is not the second-coming to singing but she is very, very good. A little training and she could easily be the mother in "A Light At The Piazza".

I doubt this is all going to end well for her

but yeah the staging of the event is puke-worthy. she has a nice voice, could easily do well in stage musicals and whatnot. the backhanded insults to her and this weird "ugly people have TALENT?" storyline is disgusting.

As Mrs V pointed out to me, they did almost the same shit last year with some dude with really bad teeth or something.

Yeah, I was really uncomfortable with the way the judges talked as well - not "oh, you were fantastic," like a normal, polite person would say, but "oh, you were fantastic, and here we were ready to laugh at, mock, and humiliate you!" As if being mean is somehow okay if people don't PROVE that they deserve decency. I guess that's half the point of the show, though, so it's the whole premise I don't like.

Very impressed by how fast I got sick of this lady after initially liking her very much. New land-speed record.

As if being mean is somehow okay if people don't PROVE that they deserve decency.

ya rly - half expected Simon to bust out with a South Park "I think we all learned something here tonight" speech

I thought Simon came off pretty well, and it's the other two judges who should be ashamed of themselves for a number of reasons.

We're calling him "Simon"? What's wrong with Cowell?

I'm on first-name basis with him; we're bros.

As Mrs V pointed out to me, they did almost the same shit last year with some dude with really bad teeth or something.

Aye, as I said, a less savvy Paul Potts. I don't think they were quite so bad to him though, the pre-mouth-opening-voice-coming-out thing wasn't OMG UGLY BLOKE CAN DO A POOR MAN'S PAVAROTTI OMGWTF, was it? It's the whole astonishment that a basically unattractive person can sing that's distasteful - if she'd come out looking like Katharine Jenkins/Elaine Paige/Cheryl Cole* and sung like Katharine Jenkins/Elaine Paige/Cheryl Cole*, no-one would have batted an eyelid.

* pick your own non-plain once-not-famous professional-singer/talent-show-winner of choice here, obv

^ hyphens are great, aren't they?

t's the whole astonishment that a basically unattractive person can sing that's distasteful - if she'd come out looking like Katharine Jenkins/Elaine Paige/Cheryl Cole* and sung like Katharine Jenkins/Elaine Paige/Cheryl Cole*, no-one would have batted an eyelid.

we've been over this!

but yeah, you're right, the fact that she was a woman seemed to give them license to be more explicitly omg this chick is butt who knew she could sing¿¿¿¿ that potts guy was like lovable nerd and susan boyle is lol ugly lady can sing wth

The one thing that threw me from the clip - who are wingus and dingus backstage, saying "bet ye didnae expect THAT didja?". I mean it implies the thing was a bit of a setup, as has been said above. Or at least they banked on the audience going "ew lol hee hee" and then being "suprised".

At first I thought they were dubbing a voice on her, heh.

Actually - hahahah - wouldnt it be hilarious if it WAS a dubbed voice and the whole thing was some shitty social experiment?

wingus and dingus are british telly nice guys Ant and Dec, whose role is to go LOLWTF as the voice of the Great British Public, and act as an anti-panel viewpoint. So, yeah, stooges to add to the "OMGWTF" view in the world where we all agree with Cowell, Morgan, and some talentfree d-list whose only claim to fame was shagging a c-list celeb, who probably did more for his public standing as a result than she did for her own.

Oh yeah Ive heard of those twits :)

The whole angle in what's been in the papers over here (gleaned from having to listen to people at work rather than actually choosing to voluntarily read the likes of the Daily Mail, though I've read some stuff on the internet now that it's become a thing) is focussing on the minor mental and learning disabilities/never had a boyfriend angle, like this somehow precludes you from having a singing voice. The fact it's gone overseas is just extra WTF icing on the cake, like they needed to beat "OMG a guy who sells mobile phones can do a passable version of Nessun Dorma".

Let's not be overly harsh on her voice; she is not the second-coming to singing but she is very, very good. A little training and she could easily be the mother in "A Light At The Piazza".

absolutely- if she did that in a local production and you were in the audience you'd be very impressed.

really tho, that was the most obvious staging i've ever seen on one of these shows. she was pretty much given a script.

thanks ilx, now i am even more uncomfortable with it

Hey, it's not just us, when articles like this exist:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1168890/Middle-aged--8216-hairy-angel-8217-wipes-smile-Britain-8217-s-Got-Talent-judges-faces.html

I feel like they're over-compensating because a) they didn't realise at first that she had a learning disability, and b) they got very cold feet when they realised that, for whatever reason, she wasn't going to take direction well. There was a definite sense in the semi and the final that everybody was a bit edgy in case she did something off-script.

somebody who seems to be a vulnerable adult is being launched into a career in a field not noted for the tender loving care shown to its participants

Saw an interview with Oliver Whatshisface (James?) where he said every celebrity he'd ever met was basically nuts

... mind you, he did blame Thatcher for it all

Moving this over from the Lacey thread:

http://www.faithmouse.com/susan_boyle_cat_duet.jpg

How many of Cowell's acts are actually millionaires now?

Simon Cowell, maybe Robson Green. That's it.

Robson Green's is based on repeat fees from North Korea where Soldier Soldier is the top rating TV show tho.

None of Girls Aloud are millionaires?

Don't think Cowell manages them or has them on his label.

Yeah, quick Google confirms he wasn't even on that show.

LOL

Yeah being patronised by the nation must be hugely unpleasant but I think I could deal with it given the opportunity to make millions of pounds with an album of glorified karaoke.

― Tits Bramble (Matt DC)

well the entire "let's have a laugh, o wait nevermind she's actually good so welcome to our exclusive club you are worthy and have overcome your shortcomings" stuff is kinda the sort of thing that got me out of the reality tv business.

you got really burned eh

...TAYLOR HICKS?

http://s3.amazonaws.com/vodpod.com.videos.thumbnail/152290.medium160.jpg

The stupidity of it is that Simon Cowell might be a decent judge of talent, but I wouldn't know from his professional career where he consistently favours mediocre people who he can score a quick buck off, so fuck his opinion really.

that's not really the moneymaker on these shows any more though- the ratings and phonelines are the income streams and the stars are the judges. the rolling procession of 'talent' is nothing more than the theme of each series.

Almost 350 people complained to Ofcom about Britian's Got Talent last week, but fewer than 20 were concerned about the treatment of runner-up Susan Boyle.

Only 16 complaints were received after Saturday's final. Ofcom says most of them were about the winners, Diversity.

Ah, righ...WHAIDAMINIT?

(i.e. the 'complaints' about Diversity were not given any detail in the news story)

In contrast, 331 viewers got in touch after Friday's semi-final. More than half were annoyed that Hollie Steel was allowed a second chance to perform.

Boyle is 'edging closer' to Porno

:/

bummer i thought Susan was starting a porn career.

I'm pleased everyone had the same thought I did when they saw that.

Who the hell is this? Dude, you've been on TV and in the papers for like ever, we know how you look, don't suddenly go all photoshop on us.

http://i48.tinypic.com/15zgh90.jpg

that's from the back cover of her album, btw.

Singer uses flattering picture on album cover. Film at 11.

Hate to admit it, but I really like the single. Surprisin choice for her which manages to avoid the show tune route I thought she'd go for. Not going to buy the album though, enough people doing that already.

I did not expect this:

Ms. Boyle's debut album, "I Dreamed a Dream" (Syco Music/Columbia), released last week, has been a record-breaking success around the world. In the United States it sold 701,000 copies, the biggest first-week sales of any album this year, eclipsing Eminem's "Relapse." It is also the biggest opening sales week for any debut album since Snoop Dogg's "Doggystyle" in 1993, and the best first week for a debut by a female artist since SoundScan began tracking record sales in 1991.

"I Dreamed a Dream" is also the biggest-selling debut in British history, according to the Official UK Charts Company, and it reached No. 1 in Australia, Canada, Ireland and New Zealand. According to Columbia, it has sold 3 million copies around the world in its opening week.

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/02/susan-boyle-tops-music-charts-with-record-setting-debut/

Susan Boyle special on ITV just now. Piers Morgan is barely letting her speak. "Special duet" coming up soon, I reckon it'll be with Elaine Paige.

you think? :-)

This is quite uncomfortable TV, an interview where they won't let her speak, and a warts-and-all documentary about how she couldn't cope and didn't win.

Hey, look, it's Elaine Paige! Who'da thunk it?

Me!

(answer yr emails btw)

That sounded odd, like Boyle's rushing through her bit too quickly and cutting all the notes short. Also has a slight feel of that bit in the X Factor final when the plucky wee finalist gets to sing with a real proper star.

Targeted advertising in the last break with Ronan Does Christmas For The Mums album, thereby neatly sorting out what to get for the parent who's already bought themself the SuBo album :-)

(answered!)

That can't have been live so it was weird if that was the best take they had. Problem obviously is that Boyle is a mediocre singer, can't do harmonies or anything - Elaine Paige had to cover that bit. Sure Boyle's a decent club singer but, y'know, state the obvious - she hasn't sold all those records cos she's bringing some unique gift to the table.

yeah. as I say, my mum's bought the album, so I'm sure I'll be getting to hear it at some time. I think trying to make her something more than she is isn't going to work at all.

I take it this programme's made by Syco to plug the album on the run up to Christmas?

Wait, what am I talking about, I didn't really answer that. I meant "yeah, she's doing nothing particularly unique other than her story.." then the bit about not having heard the album, etc etc.

I do like "Wild Horses".

I don't know if her success is a thing or tells us anything about anything or about why people buy records or like artists. I don't think it says anything that isn't obvious, really. But I might be a bit depressed/psychotically pissed-off if I was a middling professional musical theatre performer with no chance of ever selling that number of albums despite my obvious technical superiority.

I dunno, nothing but good wishes for Susan Boyle herself.

I've had to listen to the album a couple of times because Mrs T likes it and I wouldn't call her 'mediocre'. Wild Horses is v. good (although Burrito Bros version better natch) and there's a couple of other tracks on there that are well worth a listen (End of the World for instance, and Daydream Believer believe it or not).

You can polish a lot in a studio. That doesn't matter to me as far as a record is concerned but I've never heard her perform live and be better than a talented amateur.

I caught 15 mins of this - I saw the Elaine Page duet - I thought SuBo sounded better than EP.

I switched channels after this:

Cowell: "Was Susan Boyle right to dream the dream?"
(tilts head, closes eyes in deep thought. 5 seconds elapse)

Cowell: (answering his own question) "Yes".

I thought SuBo sounded better than EP.

I thought so.

After this weekend: Duets are Rubbish.

Cowell: "The elevator called me up.
She said you better start making sense.
The stone was bleeding, whirling in the waltz.
I went to see her majesty. The court had no suspense.
She said, "Dream dreams the dreamer."
I said it's not my fault."

At the very least, her initial "I Dreamed A Dream" was better than "talented amateur". Most of what she does vocally is technically more proficient (if blander) than most of the people out there with recording contracts; in her genre, she's more than qualified enough to hang with the likes of Charlotte Church and Andrea Bocelli.

Still not buying her album though.

TMZ reports:

Susan arrived to L.A. earlier today to perform the song "Perfect Day" on the show.

Sources connected to the show tell TMZ ... producers needed permission from the songwriter, Lou Reed -- the former lead singer for The Velvet Underground and famous for "Walk on the Wild Side" -- but at the last minute they were informed that Reed refused permission because he isn't a Boyle fan.

When Boyle found out, she dissolved into tears -- unprepared to change her tune for the show.

We're told Boyle went to LAX this afternoon -- still in tears -- and is catching a flight back to London.

"America's Got Talent" refused to comment.

Pfork chimes in, hilariously:

In the spirit of TMZ: Looks like someone's day wasn't so perfect after all! (Because the song is called "Perfect Day". And, in fact, Boyle had what sounded like a shitty day. That is.)

I hope you're proud of yourself, Lou Reed.

saw subo the other day looked like she was having an OK time

Pope gig was rubbish.

you were there?

Did anyone see that Futurama ep on the new season where Leela has a singing boil on her arse...

... called Susan. Groan. Didn't know til the other day that the voice for Susan "Boil" was done by Craig Ferguson which made it extra hilaro.

you were there?

No, I saw the Susan Boyle bit on the telly. She was all croaky and kept missing her cues and hit a couple of bum notes and generally made a proper arse of Make Me A Channel of Your Peace, which is usually a really nice hymn.