Film is the lowest form of art

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Agree or disagree?

Some might say so, for practical reasons. The requirements for money and time resources are far too large for most aspiring creators of that art form to completely realise their vision.. whereas finishing the project for the art forms of music, literature, painting, etc. is a much easier goal to grasp.

Some might say so, for reasons inherent in the art form itself. Film has to satisfy the visual, the aural, and the comprehensive senses.. and therefore may be less open to a variety of interpretations and enjoyment. Whereas other art forms need only satisfy one or more of the above. ("Comprehensive" kinda bleeds into "visual" and "aural" of course... and a rare few with a particular condition have to deal with "visual" and "aural" bleeding into one another as well)

I'm now getting verklempt. Tawlk amongst yaselves.

Brian MacDonald, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Film has the potential to encapsulate and communicate a greater expression of human experience than anything else. Most of my favorite art is movies.

may be less open to a variety of interpretations and enjoyment this ends up turning into a "where's the art" argument, and lately I've been on a huge productive agency trip. Interpretation is overrated; there's usually a "right" way to be subject to a work of art. I'm sure Hitchcock would agree.

Dan I., Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Difficulty realising your vision of course doesnt mean its a low form, nay thats not what you meant. It requires the necessary collaboration of creatives who can realise either one vision or who can let the vision happen in the process-(Lars Von Trier). There are many films that would have no claim on being 'art', but may be read in the whole continuum for critical purposes, like porkies or Ed Wood films-so bad its good. Im not sure if film generally has been thought of as artform, because you have your subheading 'art'film that satisfies all the cultural and 'comprehensive' aspects. 'Film has to satisfy visual, etc..' is a chunky statement, for many it only has to satisfy that they arent thinking about how crap their lives are for 2 hours, whilst other people like the reminder. As a crafty craft theres so much you can do to align with the audience, - thats what films intention is MOSTLY, therefore you have to remain populist to get the audience in and to get them to get it, got it good. So popular = low, not necisarily. In the collaboration effect you get streams or layers of meaning aswell, which can be representative OF and communicate TO, different levels of audience. Film definately has to have more supposed meaning, and entertainment to keep you there in the dark for more than an hour, whearas art can be taken in 20 second bites and chewed over later. so ahhh I dunno. I cant put Stalker and Clueless in the same category but theyre both fav films.

parker, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

sorry about my chunk paragraph I did space I promise

parker, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

no way man, yo-yoing is the lowest form of art.

J Blount, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Excuse me: ...almost anything else.

Dan I., Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

It can't be. Because it is too omnipresent in society. The lowest art forms are the ones that are almost invisible. If you would have to stick a label on it, I would rather say lower middle art form.

cuba libre (nathalie), Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

sticky labels are the lowest form of art

mark s, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

No waaay, sticky labels and blutack art are the greatest.

parker, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

low is the nu hi

(which is weird, as i am listening to p.glass's the low symphony as we post), Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

FEK U MARK SINKAH! ;-)

cuba libre (nathalie), Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Turning a light switch on and off is the lowest form of art.

Mark C, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Like when Tom Hanks did it in Cast Away?

Stuart, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

surely just turning a light off is lower? esp. if there are still ppl in the room? (my sistrah becky does this)

mark s, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

doodling on skirting boards is the lowest form of art

Alan T, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Art is the lowest form of film

Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Cuba Libre: What would you class as some of the lowest forms of art, then?

Christine "Green Leafy" Indigo, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Like all artforms eventually do, film has gone from it's heady heyday to the lowest guttural decadence. They particularly have little relevance today, as our cultural attention span has shortened considerably, not to mention that we've all been spoiled by the interactivity and instant choices/decision making we've become accustomed to with the internet. Frick, who's got the willpower and blood pressure to sit through a 2 hour film! I would rather die! Films mean nothing! They haven't for 30 years. Notwithstanding the whole independent film movement; it was a marketing ploy! When a film's (or any artwork for that matter) content is about its self and its history (e.g. Postmodernism) it is decadent, and boring. I hate film!

Fake, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

http://www.highdesert.com/indepth/roy/photos/images/poster.jpg< br>
a heady heyday indeed! but the day's hey was for movie posters, maybe, and not the movies themselves? $10 american for someone who can find a film from the "golden era" of hollywood that rings as true as taipei story. modern taiwanese filmmakers make 99% of hollywood films feel hopelessly dated. there IS a forward to move to. (p.s. check out the comment profile for the taipei story reviewer (alice liddel (the red duchess))!! damn!) of course i am a sucker of on-screen anomie as all kno.

Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Hollywood has tried, with limited success, to rip off the Taiwan style with flicks like American Beauty, where they get some details right (lonely real-estate saleswomen; a Winesburg Ohio-ish yearning to bust out of the trappings of one's life; a still and focused camera; long takes; "realism") but they are ultimately in thrall to the perquisites of the Hollywood ending—the sick and desperate insistence on "redemption" for the heroes and an orderly comeuppance for the characters who represent the difficulty-that-must- be-overcome, events that rarely occur in such a timely fashion in people's lives if at all; much more common the gradual unfolding of realization that something has been lost, which is how Yang's movies seem often to end.

Of course this is assuming movies are worth talking about. Brian your original question makes it sound like you think the more sensory input a medium provides, the less "artistic" it is. Why do you think that?

Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

"perquisites" --> "prerequisites"

Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

though that, too, obviously

Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

"Turning a light switch on and off is the lowest form of art." - no way man, it's the lowest form of culture jamming.

J Blount, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

No, it's the highest form of culure jamming. I love how when you're trying to watch silly videos or look at boring photos all you can concentrate on is this flashing light in the next room. That is ACE.

Graham, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

In his day, Shakespeare was generally looked down upon by the Oxbridge crowd, who thought his plays crude, loud and lowbrow, full of cheap laughs and brassy effects. The theater was seen as a place of dodgy morals, full of apprentices looking for a lark, pickpockets and trulls.

The movies (as we Americans generally call them) are mostly full of cheap laughs and brassy effects, and most of them are pretty shallow, too. But the best of them are quite good art. If you ask me, the lowest art form is the limerick.

Little Nipper, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Isn't the fact that film has to call on all the senses mean it's the highest art form?

Michael Bourke, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

all the senses in the sense of, like, two of them?

mark s, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

smellorama

cuba libre (nathalie), Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Boom boom!

Michael Bourke, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

k...didnt mean ALL the senses

Michael Bourke, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Ticks dropped from the ceiling! now that's REAL!

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 29 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Ticks dropped from the ceiling! now that's REAL!

Sure, but tis also hard to peel off your skin......

Hang on, while I get highbrow for a sec....*ahem*: Film (as a medium) has always given filmmakers an avenue to express themselves, so I disagree about it being the "lowest" form of art. Sometimes, it hasn't been expressed well, but you can't blame the entire genre for that. For every idiot film like "Freddy Got Fingered", you will actually have a decent counterpart like "Ran" or "A Woman Ascends The Stairs". (Both are Japanese films, but they still count.)

Nichole Graham, Thursday, 30 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Just read an interview w/Terry Southern where he has some interesting things to say abt all this - "...when things are right, [film] is probably the most satisfying creatively of all the forms, because it is so much stronger than prose. Consider this: in establishing or creating empathy - which, after all, is what it's all about - the most effective sensory perceptions are those of sight and sound. In other words, to be standing on a street corner when someone is hit by a car ... to see it - the look of surprise, of horror, of pain, and the blood ... and to hear it - the brakes, the scream, the metal smashing against the body ... well, that's considerably different to reading about it in the paper. To see it and hear it is to be only once removed from the primary experience - of being hit yourself - whereas merely to read about it is to be at least twice removed."

Southern also uses the phrase "really monstro drawback and boss pain in the ass creativewise"!

Andrew L, Thursday, 30 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Are we leading up to putting the worthiness of art forms in order, like a league table? Will the top ones get into Europe? Will there be promotion and relegation from and to the next division down (known as 'Craft' unless I miss my guess)? We can have a World Cup where English poetry meets Japanese flower arranging and Turkish calligraphy and American jazz.

I don't know how we've managed without a ranking system. Perhaps we can ask FIFA to help? Points could be given for appearances in some newspapers and taken away for appearances in others, and for the average length of words and sentences in the articles, and some sort of ratio between the coverage and the number of people who trouble to experience the art.

Martin Skidmore, Thursday, 30 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

martin that is an ace idea

anthony, Thursday, 30 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

adorno seems to think this. he says cos it leaves nothing to the imagination of the viewer. he even said that orson welles couldn't escape this. obv i disagree, i know plenty of films that have left me completely disoriented and thoughtful.

di, Thursday, 30 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

seven months pass...
revive!

donut bitch (donut), Friday, 17 January 2003 22:19 (twenty-three years ago)

Thanks, DB. Has everyone been working on my idea of a league table of artforms?

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 17 January 2003 22:57 (twenty-three years ago)

one year passes...
Martin, how's that table comin' along? CHOP CHOP!

donut bitch (donut), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 00:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Film would be my 'highest' form for being the most democratic form - almost everyone in the 'global north' has access to great films, or even just good films, whereas 99% of the world will never see a Picasso in person or a Van Gogh in person. Many of us own a fine version of some of the great films in our DVD collections - how many ILMers own a great painting?

Literature, films, photography, bookmaking, print-making, design, music, architecture (etc.) are most interesting to me because they aren't one-offs, things to be hung behind velvet ropes and looked at or sold to the elites for prices no normal person could hope to afford, they're to be experienced, democratic and populist.

Film is best at that, in the way it creates connections as no other form can. I've never had a painting send me away drained reeling the way watching Bully for the first time did, and I never had one create a world for me as heartfelt and real as Dazed and Confused or The Straight Story. Those aren't even the ones that most people would classify as great works (nor would I, though I'd come close on the latter two). Cinema done right can't be surpassed.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 01:57 (twenty-two years ago)

i thought you were going to make a table to store your artforums. i could totally use one.

dean! (deangulberry), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 02:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Film would be my 'highest' form for being the most democratic form - almost everyone in the 'global north' has access to great films, or even just good films, whereas 99% of the world will never see a Picasso in person or a Van Gogh in person. Many of us own a fine version of some of the great films in our DVD collections - how many ILMers own a great painting?

First of all, I've only seen a handful of Picassos or Van Goghs in person in my life, but because of a decent education, a curiousity as to the history of painting, and things like the internet, reference books, etc, I can tell you what a Picasso or Van Gogh looks like, and probably can name you, in great deal, at least a few of their works. I've only ever seen my favorite painting of all time twice, but I know a shitload more about it than I would ever get from looking at it in person.

And I think that film's equivalent, sorry to say, is that the majority of people don't watch the "great masters"/"great works" in a theater on film; they watch them on DVD or VHS - a lesser quality replication that serves you well for repeat viewings or extended perusal, and probably allows you to become more familiar with these titles than you would if you waited to see what comes to town. I mean, the immense experience of seeing Lawrence of Arabia on the big-screen in 70mm is a monumental point in my film-going life, but it's not the kind of thing I think most people are able to do.

Girolamo Savonarola, Wednesday, 11 February 2004 03:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I can tell you what a lot of great works look like - just like I could give you a basic outline of great movies and great literature (often from from things I've never seen or read).

But looking at Guernica on an 8x10 page, or a 12x20 poster or a screen isn't the same as seeing it in person. When you're talking about something on that scale (or, say, a Jackson Pollock painting), a flat reproduction can't do it complete justice.

Watching Citizen Kane on a new DVD is pretty close to the real thing - or better in many ways, I'm guessing, compared to 1941-era theaters in Middle America.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 11 February 2004 03:45 (twenty-two years ago)

My Criterion DVD copy of L'Avventura looks better than anyone in the history of the world ever saw it in film form - from a strictly "clean, no hairs or dirt" point of view. But the fact is that it feels and looks extremely different, more palpable, on the big screen. And no DVD is going to overcome that, because, scratch free or not, digital video does not look like film looks. This is not debatable - it is scientific fact that contrast, color tones, contrast range, and imaging emission technologies do not have parity between the two. The amazing thing is that we've figured out a way to make it close enough to satisfy the average movie-watcher. But I'll take a dirty print of Kane or Lawrence or any Antonioni, for that matter, over any quality digital video telecine anyday.

Girolamo Savonarola, Wednesday, 11 February 2004 04:19 (twenty-two years ago)

twenty-one years pass...

Gee, how did this troll/provocation only attract 44 total posts, even after being revived twice?

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Saturday, 3 January 2026 02:41 (two months ago)


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