"not being able to be yourself around friends"

This is sparked by something Ronan said on the (perhaps overly?) contentious "having friends who don't know anything about anything and are into really lame shit c/d" thread; do you have friends that you feel you can "be yourself" around with no filters/modifications? How about family? I ask because, due to the way social norms in the upper Midwest work, I don't think I have a firm grasp on what "being myself" actually is, let alone whether I feel I can act that way around other people 24/7.

It seems like there's something inherently selfish tied up in the phrase "being yourself", maybe an implied disregard of the normal social contract that makes me uncomfortable; am I alone on this?

the only way i ever "don't feel myself" around friends is when there's a silence for a minute and i feel like i have to think of something to say to spark conversation instead of just letting there be silence. this depends more on the situation than on the friends though

Let's put it this way: I have friends around whom I can try out all kinds of jokes, personae, and general batshit stuff without looking like a fool. Good friends are tolerant; great friends allow you the space to be whoever you want (and will call you out if you look like a douche). I've only started learning how to do this with family.

this is way easier/simpler with friends than family. because you can always get some new friends.

from the pound

I guess I'm thinking about instances like when you're having a really shitty day or you're upset about something relatively trivial; how much of that type of thing creeps into your interaction with your friends and how much of it do you try to pre-filter? I'm not talking about "oh, I just lost my job" types of things, more like "I lost an old pair of shoes"; it's something you are legitimately upset about but you also recognize that you are the only one who cares and it's only going to be for the next couple of hours, so do you let that upset play out in your interaction with others or do you try to "get over it"?

I'm probably not expressing myself very clearly here; maybe this is better cast as "how melodramatic are you"?

maybe this is better cast as "how melodramatic are you"?

lolz otm

I ask because, due to the way social norms in the upper Midwest work, I don't think I have a firm grasp on what "being myself" actually is, let alone whether I feel I can act that way around other people 24/7.

this is mostly the way i feel (minus the midwestern part)--im not sure what it would mean to "be myself" given that i act differently arnd friend group A than around friend grp B but in neither case feel as though im not "being myself."

I tend not to complain to friends, or to anyone really, but this is a personal thing.

i'm always myself with friends and family. I wasn't like this when i was younger, friends i had in school and stuff only saw one side of me, i didn't want to appear weird, normal teenage stuff. Hasn't really caused me any trouble, tho talking about my atheism with my devoutly catholic latin american grandmother wasn't the most fun i've had.

this is mostly the way i feel (minus the midwestern part)--im not sure what it would mean to "be myself" given that i act differently arnd friend group A than around friend grp B but in neither case feel as though im not "being myself."

I define it as being relaxed/confident etc. Maybe I am immature with stuff like this but if I feel the dynamic of a group means I have to be quiet or more reserved, or there's no shared sense of humour, then I feel I'm not being myself. Things are pretty good lately with friends and for me personally my best friends currently I can simultaneously be ultra relaxed with but also do stupidn crazy stuff or say stupid things or be challenged/learn about stuff.

The "myself" I meant was just a self that I like. I don't like myself being quiet.

It seems like there's something inherently selfish tied up in the phrase "being yourself", maybe an implied disregard of the normal social contract that makes me uncomfortable; am I alone on this?

There are many such phrases, like "acting naturally," that are presented as why it's okay to ditch manners and decency. IMO, 'be myself' isn't one of them. Perhaps that's because of how I use it – I'm always painfully polite, but when I can't "be myself" it feels as though even the most harmless parts of who I am are unwelcome & need to be censored. It's a lousy feeling.

i like that i have to behave differently when around different friends/acquaintances. gives all the facets of my personality a good workout. i don't think i'd say that any of that constitutes not being myself. family is a different matter.

how much of that type of thing creeps into your interaction with your friends and how much of it do you try to pre-filter?

this type of thing totally justifies the existence of twitter - you can put shit like "FUCK FUCK FUCK WHERE ARE MY KEYS" or "WHY IS THE FUCKING BUS NOT COMING" there and then you don't have to rant to your friends about it, which is probably v welcome for them.

I think the biggest problem I has as a teenager in the Mormon church was with not being able to "be myself" since the range of acceptable behavior was never clearly defined but always very narrow. Like I remember being looked down on for some picture I drew of a crocodile dressed as a noir detective. What the hell? If I can't do that then U&G&*&@&&&*!!??! yeah that wld be what I mean.

I know part of my hangups arise from being The Only Black Kid up until 7th grade and the constant warnings about how my behavior would always be more noticeable than my peers simply because I was more noticeable than my peers.

Ha, let me suggest a handy scale for descriptive purposes:

1. being "authentic" self
2. being mildly edited version of self
3. being significantly revised version of self
4. being whole different situation-specific self
5. being something that doesn't even feel like "self"

When I was young I felt like I was 1 around friends and 2/3/5 around girls I liked; now I feel like I'm 1 around girlfriend and more often 2/3 around friends. (That feels like a pretty normal development.) I am kinda 4 around family, which is too bad, but also probably common. At this point I mostly experience 5 in terms of professional/official stuff, which I guess is a role I don't usually feel quite natural in.

I think I can only be unguardedly myself around a few college friends. Mainly this has to do with my humor being too dark and cynical and straight-faced sometimes, which I don't let out until I'm comfortable with people; as a result new friends get surprised and sometimes bothered when I DO get comfortable with them, so I'm trying to be more careful about it. It doesn't mean that I'm not myself with those friends, but I'm definitely a more cautious and self-censoring version of myself, which makes me feel not as close to them.

Ha, Dan, I saw a quote from an interview with Mindy Kaling where she did a nice job of summing up the immigrant-minority intersection with what you're talking about:

Get up. Brush your teeth. Be a good kid. Go to school. Everyone's against you. Go to school. Everyone's against you. Come home. We're all gonna have dinner together. No sex. No drugs. Do your homework. Everyone's against you.

Although "everyone's against you" is probably more realistically "everyone is scrutinizing your behavior in big, significant, and totally weird ways."

^^ that quote is meant to be a paraphrase of the message gotten from parents, btw

they make immigrants go to school twice a day?

Also things are complicated bcz I have a mental illness, which I feel terrible even saying that bcz it does get used as troll bait. ANYWAY I am always worried I might do something so people would realize this is the case. I kind of live in this weird suspense of feeling like I have to trick people about this. It makes it so I have to hide part of myself but it's complicated bcz it's part of myself I'm afraid of and not entirely comfortable with. It's like, around here anyway in my town where everyone's done time, it's like scarier to to others than saying you've gone to jail. Like I don't want to be that outlier post Dan said on the other thread:

Has it not been other people's experience that people who are actually, legitimately "different" end up having some severe psychological problems that require constant medication?

which, however scary to a lot of people, is a facet of who I am. It makes me quite self-conscious.

my work self is the most easy going, simple to get a long with but weirdly distant guy in the world fyi

I wanted to say that one can never really "be yourself" because you ALWAYS adapt to the person you're with, but I guess I do have one person: my husband. Although I do tend to adapt to him as well. It's inevitable. Or maybe it's more something female, I'm not sure. I can complain to my friend and sadly (for her) I do complain (when I feel really shitty). But... hmm no, I can't really get the "be yourself" because there's different "me"s.

FWIW Abbott, I did not intend offense with that post and I apologize if it made you uncomfortable.

No, no, no, I know Dan. You're a good dude. It's just a thing. No worries.

That scale is handy Nabisco, thank you!

Maria otm too, I think humour is the big thing, well, for me anyway. I hang out with some people with whom I practically never stop laughing, but others I'd barely crack a joke at all. It feels very strange.

nabisco otm

Get up. Brush your teeth. Be a good kid. Go to school. Everyone's against you. Go to school. Everyone's against you. Come home. We're all gonna have dinner together. No sex. No drugs. Do your homework. Everyone's against you.

hahaha this is so completely OTM

Abbs, I've been having that convo w a few friends lately. All of them are, or believe wholeheartedly that they are, very different from others -- more different than most others are among themselves. And all of them work hard to hide their condition from even many of their closest friends because they think people wouldn't accept them if they really knew.

But I'm not sure it's a very useful distinction whether you are "crazy"/"mentally ill" or just eccentric and/or a little more different from others...if you've developed a way of living in the world, and people you like like you back, and you get along okay even though you have some bad days but mostly you've struck a balance...this is what almost everyone does to varying degrees. Hopefully the public self isn't a TOTAL construct, it's just a toned down version...and it's just as much "you" as the inside of your head is, even tho no one else knows about it.

I'm not sure where this is going. But I'm interested in it.

You know, there are some people with whom I get along well and we talk well and comfortably and in a way that makes me feel authentic and understood and very positive about myself. There are other people with whom I get along well, but we think/talk in different ways, or are interested in very different things, or don't 100% understand one another, so it requires more give and take and adjustment to the other person. That second type ... it might require slight editing of your basic impulses so that you can relate to the other person, but it doesn't make me feel inauthentic, or anything. It doesn't make me feel uncomfortable, or like I'm hiding something about myself, or like I'm pretending to have qualities I don't; it just involves dealing with the things about yourself that are useful in that particular relationship. It would have to be pretty severely bad and vexed for me to feel inauthentic about it.

What does make me feel weird is when I realize that someone like that has developed an idea of what I'm like that feels really different from my self-image. (E.g., say you hang out with someone where for whatever reason your shared activity is drinking a whole lot, and then eventually they come to see you as a drunk -- but maybe you only drink a lot with that person, because of that person!)

admitting there is a problem is the first step on the road to recovery

get help nabisco before it's too late

the drinking is a metaphor for posting to ILX

oh sure, blame ILX

I love it when people develop an idea of who I am that's different from my usual images, as long as I can limit the amount of time I spend with them. It gets tiring after a while to keep up unusual masks. But all the time I am wearing masks, it's just that I like some masks more than others (yes, I come from an immigrant family and from a much different class than I now operate in, so I'm used to wearing masks).

you can put shit like "FUCK FUCK FUCK WHERE ARE MY KEYS" or "WHY IS THE FUCKING BUS NOT COMING" there and then you don't have to rant to your friends about it, which is probably v welcome for them.

This is precisely why I haven't been able to get into Twitter -- I don't care about people's tweets about the bus. I get it: it's slow, there are crazy people on it, zzz.

so I'm thinking about the reverse of this and wondering if it's worth hiding things because people will sort you out anyway?

one question I've used during job interviews is "tell me the biggest misperception other people have about you" - it's a way to get people to tell you something true about themselves, because there are rarely misperceptions about people's behavior. people figure out other people's deals, and we don't hide ourselves as well as we like to imagine.

does this "tell me the biggest misperception other people have about you" work, or do you find it is an invitation for people to boast how secretly awesome they are?

I used to feel this a lot but I've been thinking it less and less over the last seven or eight years. I suppose there could be any number of reasons for it - getting older, getting to know people better or faster, just being more confident and more relaxed about myself, etc. I suppose it comes down to whether you consider yourself a peripheral or a central figure in a group, rather than how other people see you.

in my last job I was working there for about 6/7 months (and being quiet/polite/banal due to not much common ground) when one day I laughed at something and one colleague said "you have a very evil laugh", and then another colleague was like "i've noticed that before, what's that all about?"

it was nice cos then I sarcastically was like "what are you guys suggesting? i don't know what you're talking about!" etc and it felt like eventually someone had got some sense of me.

but overall I think you can hide things. tons of people I know, relatives etc, I hate having to be quiet/polite as it's so utterly contrary to who I am. But they've zero idea of the real me. Only in the last 2/3 years have I managed to find the right level of borderline jokes to make around my Mum and Dad and it turns out my Dad loves this, and joins in while my Mum feigns outrage.

does this "tell me the biggest misperception other people have about you" work, or do you find it is an invitation for people to boast how secretly awesome they are?

hahaha OTM

"I can't really do twice as much as they do in the same amount of time; there's a lot that happens during off hours that they never see."

does this "tell me the biggest misperception other people have about you" work, or do you find it is an invitation for people to boast how secretly awesome they are?

― Philip Nunez, Monday, May 4, 2009 2:37 PM (47 seconds ago) Bookmark

some ppl are in actuality secretly awesome and need permission to confess so I'm not sure how to answer yr question

Hahaha at a job interview once they asked me to sum myself up in one word, and like a reflex I said, "Awesome." She asked for something more specific (?) and it took me a long time of thinking.

^awesome!

haha clearly there needs to be some kind of Ferrell / Hill / McBride style comedy about Abbott

would definitely buy on Blu-Ray

I think most of the time I feel like I can be myself in terms of being relaxed/confident/gregarious/self-assured, etc. But there's also this next-level aspect of myself that's prone to silliness (putting on stupid voices, making up songs, a whole host of other activities that would make you think I'm a total nutjob if I were to list them out in full), and that's probably only seen by my girlfriend and (to a lesser extent now than when I was growing up) my immediate family. It'd be bad news for me if I felt like I couldn't be this way around my girlfriend, but I don't really feel the need to be like that around anyone else, so it's OK.

(Although I did take several months of improv classes recently and found it frustrating that I wasn't able to channel that side while on stage -- in fact, the instructors even commented that I was too controlled/not spontaneous enough -- which I guess I attribute to not feeling close enough to my classmates to drop my guard entirely.)

did u get the job abbott

This reminds me of something Hoffer wrote:

"The people we meet are the playwrights and stage managers of our lives: they cast us in a role, and we play it whether we would like it or not. It is not so much the example of others we imitate as the reflection of ourselves in their eyes and the echo of ourselves in their words. - Eric Hoffer"

I think people, myself included, can act dramatically different (especially at first) with certain people and then those people develop a certain perception of you, and you feel obligated to live up to who they think you are. Some people think you're "the clown," while others know of you're melancholic side etc. I remember hanging out with my more brainy and nerdy friends and, in an attempt to blend in, I guess, I was playing up the idea that I'm not good with women and dating either; then I'd hang out with another friend and his fiance and their "more social" crowd, and it'd occur to me that I'm actually more comfortable with women than with men - and that I get along incredibly well with women. So which person is "me" and which is the persona? The nerd or the witty and debonair person? The truth is you're both.

Hell yeah I got the job. (NB it was an unimpressive job at a used music store.)

But there's also this next-level aspect of myself that's prone to silliness (putting on stupid voices, making up songs, a whole host of other activities that would make you think I'm a total nutjob if I were to list them out in full)

Haha, acting silly and doing crazy voices in front of people that don't know you're playing around and are actually normal most of the time: Classic or dud?

I've got maybe 3 friends with whom I can really switch b/w modes comfortably. These are people with whom I can geek out about rap or argue politics or spout emo shit, and they're my closest friends precisely because I'm more comfortable exposing all aspects of myself to them.

this mode/code-switching sounds a lot like racial stuff (talking white with the co-workers / talking black with the homies)

I've got maybe 3 friends with whom I can really switch b/w modes comfortably. These are people with whom I can geek out about rap or argue politics or spout emo shit, and they're my closest friends precisely because I'm more comfortable exposing all aspects of myself to them.

totally, or even better, laugh your head off while also spouting emo shit.

all aspects of hoos' self: rap, politics, emo shit

last night was out with good friend and I caught this girl's eye and she came over, and I was chatting to her and stuff, and flirting etc. after talking for a while she mentioned she had a gram of ketamine on her and my friend was like "oh can I have some?". She was like "maybe" and went to have a cigarette and I was like "FFS don't start taking ketamine, it'll be like I'm here on my own if you're high" and then he said "that's how I felt while you were chatting her up!". was pretty funny, "we just have different goals this evening!"

I hope you had a ketamine-induced threesome

but I feel like we're getting off-topic

if I had a penny for everytime a ketamine induced threesome had led me off topic I'd be oh I don't know, exactly 16 pence richer (in 2009 jan-may)

does ketamine reveal one's inner self? I thought it was for horse euthanasia or something.

I think most of the time I feel like I can be myself in terms of being relaxed/confident/gregarious/self-assured, etc. But there's also this next-level aspect of myself that's prone to silliness (putting on stupid voices, making up songs, a whole host of other activities that would make you think I'm a total nutjob if I were to list them out in full), and that's probably only seen by my girlfriend and (to a lesser extent now than when I was growing up) my immediate family.

Haha, acting silly and doing crazy voices in front of people that don't know you're playing around and are actually normal most of the time: Classic or dud?

haha totally do this shit w/ my fiancee, i've recently learned that several of my friends/family members also do this w/ their significant others. i'm starting to think it's like, really common

I kind of live in this weird suspense of feeling like I have to trick people about this. It makes it so I have to hide part of myself but it's complicated bcz it's part of myself I'm afraid of and not entirely comfortable with. It's like, around here anyway in my town where everyone's done time, it's like scarier to to others than saying you've gone to jail.

The hardest thing for me is revealing "vulnerability" especially as regards aspects of myself that I regret or resent, because to a certain extent I believe that if I ignore these things they will eventually go away, and if I call attention to them, they won't, either because I've somehow identified myself with them or because now that I've revealed them I will dwell on them more.

Also, most of my friendships evolved out of professional relationships, and there are pitfalls and challenges with that.

uh yeah i think anyone you live with is going to see more sides of you than people you just hang out with for a few hours every week or two

also yes, it seems to me like silly songs, dumb voices, and similar 9-year-old tomfoolery are the least weird thing in the world with couples in private

I mean I would actively claim that "everyone does that" if that weren't so much of a presumptuous blanket statement

my wife was talking about how when she talks to her friends about being stressed out, they're just like "oh you don't get stressed out, you're so relaxed all the time!" but yeah of course she's relaxed in friendly, hanging-out situations, she gets stressed out all the time at home. so i guess that's kind of the opposite but parallel situation.

Philip, not really, it's more like being v drunk but a bit druggy into the bargain.

I'm still thinking about Abbott's one word summary of herself being "awesome." When I try to think of what my answer would be, I'm coming up with a total blank, and I think becoming able to fill that blank in with "awesome" may be my life goal.

the more interviews I go to the more I feel like a character in a larry david sitcom

When I was playing in a band, and making creative decisions with people I considered friends but with whom I often disagreed, I routinely got emotional and antagonistic in a way that other friends of mine don't usually see. (When I first started dating my girlfriend, I would come home and tell her about band practice and feel sort of weird describing various shouting matches, since it didn't really accord with how I'd presented myself to her.) I suspect this is why one of my bandmates said he wasn't surprised that my "Which character from The Wire are you?" Facebook quiz result was Kima.

That reminds me of how I get weirded out by my husband on a football pitch. He's so extremely mild-mannered in every other perceivable context that I get pretty shocked just at how loud he is when he's bossing around defenders.

Genuinely stoked by the discovery that other people do the silly voice/songs thing. Wow. Not alone in the world.

some of my more embarrassing emotional flameouts of the past five years have been at or immediately after band practice

"like being v drunk but a bit druggy into the bargain"

but drunk you is closer to real you, yes?

I'm slightly discomfited that I feel less like I can completely "drop masks" around my current partner than I did around my previous one. Different approaches to each other, obviously, and maybe it'll just take time. It's the stuff wot jaymc said about the silly voices and singing and quoting simpsons to the cat, or whatever.

I dont feel like I can be myself (or be the me I *like* being, which goes back to Dan's selfishness comment in the OP) around my parents, but that's probably mainly because I now do things they're not happy with like drinking and smoking.

How do social norms work in the upper Midwest?

"Politeness Über Alles"

This reminds me of something Hoffer wrote:

"The people we meet are the playwrights and stage managers of our lives: they cast us in a role, and we play it whether we would like it or not. It is not so much the example of others we imitate as the reflection of ourselves in their eyes and the echo of ourselves in their words. - Eric Hoffer"

What does make me feel weird is when I realize that someone like that has developed an idea of what I'm like that feels really different from my self-image.

Yeah these are the sorts of things that, at least in the past, have contributed to me having a hard time being 'myself' around certain people: that they have expectations of who I am and/or how I act and when I'm different from their expectations, or godforbid want to make some personal/lifestyle changes, it's weird or awkward. Thankfully this hasn't really been an issue in my post-university life, but I think part of that may have to do with being in a different city and away from people who have a stagnant image of me. My best friends are people who, despite having developed an idea of what I'm 'like' (because if you're friends with someone, that just happens naturally, doesn't it?), don't act weirded out or confused when I act differently or evolve away from their definition of who I am.

Having said that obv I'm most 'myself' with these closest friends because I'm most comfortable with them... If I'm around acquaintances or people I've only just met I get really quiet, which isn't necessarily -not- being myself, it's just how I deal with situations where I don't know people well (or when I'm around relatives). I think the only people I actively put on a different self with are coworkers (ie the ones who don't quite qualify as friends) and employers.

oops, I was hoping that wouldn't come out as long as it did.

don't worry about it, salsa, just be yourself

That Hoffer quote is interesting. I don't really feel "cast in a role" among most of my friends, but it does apply to a few. One person in particular, since remarking that I remind her a lot of her younger brother, now seems disappointed when I deviate in any way from that role.

but drunk you is closer to real you, yes?

depressing but possibly true

this thread looks boring, is it about anything other than ilxors sometimes/often being awkward dudes irl?

dunno but the thread title makes me think so

Dude are we not forgetting joygoat is related to a guy who SAVED Aileen Wuornos???

One thing I get a lot - from wildly different people, throughout different eras of my life, different locations, and so on - is how they thought I was mean and scary when the first saw me

I get this a lot, too! People are often intimidated by me when they first meet me (I am SO FUCKING NICE, though) that I end up going to greeeeeeeeeat lengths to make sure everybody is happy and comfortable in my presence, and that I don't say anything that might hurt anybody's feelings , like the Martha Stewart of Emotions, and then that gets really exhausting because I'm pretty sarcastic/outspoken/silly (but nice, though, really) naturally.

On the Nabisco Friendship OTMeter, I do have level 1 friends. They are my favorites.

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? how could anyone think jenny is mean?

say whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?

Thankfully this hasn't really been an issue in my post-university life, but I think part of that may have to do with being in a different city and away from people who have a stagnant image of me.

That's just it, a lot of times people will forget that they even had a certain persona until they go back to their hometown or hang out with old friends. Then they're surprised, or reminded, that some people remember them and expect them to be completely different. It's horrible because sometimes when they see your new personality they're surprised, and - to return to the stage manager analogy - you feel like an actor who's going way off script just because you're not the old "you."

yeah, when hung out with some old school friends last summer for a while one of them confronted me on where the fuck had all my energy and confidence gone. what, you mean the energy and cockiness of a seventeen year old boy? its been a long five years, get a clue.

this mode/code-switching sounds a lot like racial stuff (talking white with the co-workers / talking black with the homies)

― Philip Nunez, Monday, 4 May 2009 19:26 (3 hours ago)

I mean I wouldn't put it as race based but yeah I'm definitely not gonna tell my boss his tie is fly as fuck today por ejemplo.

And my point was that I can tell those closest of my friends that the new T.I. single is almost as dope as Robert Gibbs's tie from yesterday's presser and don't they agree

"Zakaria's hair is fuckin crazy in HD dogg"

but yeah its just another piece of rap slang, i dont tell my grandmother her macaroni is off the motherfucking chain either but if im with hiphop people sure no big deal

― s trife (simon_tr), Monday, October 14, 2002 12:40 PM (6 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

maybe you're never more yourself when you're being someone else ; )

"Zakaria's hair is fuckin crazy in HD dogg"

― I'm not some HOOS for someone's lust to snack on! (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, May 5, 2009 12:45 AM (20 minutes ago) Bookmark

this is an actual text message i sent on sunday morning btw

I would love to hear someone telling their gramma her macaroni is off the motherfuckin chain!

Ha I was trying to figure out what macaroni was slang for. ('her hair?')

Silly me.

i'm not myself unless i'm naked and threatening strangers with a broken shard of plexiglass

Thats the spirit!

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? how could anyone think jenny is mean?

I KNOW RIGHT? But you know some of them. Them whom thought I were mean.

be yourself
give your free will a chance
you've got to want to succeed

i think i'm pretty routinely myself, though my moods are fairly unpredictable.

next-level friendship is everyone being comfortable with silence. maybe