Ang Lee vs Steven Soderbergh vs Michael Winterbottom

Soderbergh overall, although I like several films of Lee and Winterbottom's.

Yeah Soderbergh. Lee and Winterbottom occassionally work for me as well.

That new Ang Lee movie about Woodstock looks like really hard work.
What are each of their *worst* films, I wonder? "9 Songs" is god-awful. "Full Frontal" is kind of a stinker.
(I think I'm the only person in the world who seems to love "Bubble").

Actually looking at Winterbottom filmography, he's done a lot more I liked than I remembered. The Claim, In This World, Wonderland, Road To Guantanamo, 24 Hour Party People are all quite good. I guess I just don't see the stuff of his that everyone considers dodgy (like A Might Heart or Code 46, ack.)

Full Frontal
The Hulk
9 Songs

All terrible.

Winterbottom. I haven't like a Soderbergh fim since 99, nor an Ang Lee picture since 94.

Yeah I'm beginning to think I should change my vote.

this is a toughie! i like films by all these dudes and really dislike others. but they all seem willing to keep trying new things and i respect that, i guess inconsistency comes with that.

I just realized I haven't really liked anything that Soderberg has done post-Limey (haven't seen the Che(s) though). Okay I'm definitely voting Winterbottom. I respect trying new things but some of them have to work ya know.

ya, well... some of them do!

What of his have you really liked in the past ten years, s1ocki (just out of curiosity)? Even just focusing on parts of films, the Del Toro Traffic bits are pretty much it for me and the rest of that flick is pure mediocrity at best.

well i haven't seen bubble - or che - or the girlfriend experience. but i'm not mad at erin brockovich or the first ocean's.

Agree, I didn't hate either of those (first Oceans is def. fun for that kind of fare.) I guess I just want to be more enthused than I'm not mad at.

Winterbottom, I guess, because I've seen the least by him.

but that's so counter-intuitive and mind-blowing

i don't think any of these guys have ever made a movie that i would very good. (Eat Man Drink Woman and 24 Hour Party People are definetely enjoyable though) Soderbergh is the weakest link. I'm voting Winterbottom because I just recall I also liked his Jude adaptation.

*i would call very good*

these 3 really are the "respected" filmmakers who get up a lot of folks' ire for some reason. i think part of it is their films, but there's something else going on. they're regarded as workmanlike and not really auteurs, i guess?

Wait you wouldn't call any of the five movies I cited by Winterbottom very good?

I'd probably pick Ang Lee, Soderbergh has a higher hit count (Erin B, Out of Sight, S, L&video,) but Ang Lee is kindof a king at making images that are both mundane and striking, Christina Ricci on her bike in the Ice Storm, the rain bit In sense and sensibility, ride with the devil, and much more human and painterly. Soderbergh is great, appealingly kinda trashy, really want to see more of this porno/bubble stuff, girlfriend thing looks v. interesting (thanking u kanye blog)

Don't really *get* Winterbottom.

Ang Lee by far. Have liked some stuff by the others, but only 'Hulk' left me nonplussed with Lee. REALLY want him to genre-hop again and do a full-on science-fiction movie.

these 3 really are the "respected" filmmakers who get up a lot of folks' ire for some reason. i think part of it is their films, but there's something else going on. they're regarded as workmanlike and not really auteurs, i guess?

William Wyler didn't get much respect either.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

so has anyone seen The Girlfriend Experience? Is it as good as the reviews are suggesting? I feel that even suggesting that I see this to my wife is going to lead to a discussion about whether or not I even know who is in it and I feel like avoiding that subject.

Soderbergh in a walk. He makes great movies and has a ton of fun doing it. Only thing I fault him for is getting a great performance out of J Lo, thus making her credible and indirectly subjecting us all to years of torture.

I love Lee's eye and what he's does with remove but jesus christ the hulk is inexcusable. Winterbottom: eh.

Only thing I fault him for is getting a great performance out of J Lo, thus making her credible and indirectly subjecting us all to years of torture.

So this. I'd never heard of her before 'Out of Sight', and so was really hyped the next time some film with her came along. But 'twas shit, and then the music, aiiieee.

sex scene in out of sight is really great

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

I maybe haven't seen enough by Ang Lee, but in the end, there were two Winterbottom films I loved (Wonderland and 24 Party People) and two Soderberghs (Sex Lies and Videotape and Solaris) but only Brokeback Mountain for Lee. Went with Soderbergh.

Why were these three directors lumped together?

Oh, because they're three directors who hop around between different styles and genres so adeptly.

(well, maybe not always adeptly, but freely)

OMG Winterbottom -- the one out of these three I care for the least -- is making a film out of Thompson's Killer Inside me!

On a quick scan of filmographies and crossing it and what you've said with what I've seen I'd go for Ang Lee. I really like what he's comfortable at doing, but I also don't think Hulk is not a disaster. So the Hulk wins it, for me.

Neither one (including Soderbergh himself) has ever topped Erin Brockovich.

^the last third of this made my teeth hurt.

I think the best thing in the three filmographies is Eat Drink Man Woman.

"Neither one (including Soderbergh himself) has ever topped Erin Brockovich."

Oh no all three have definitely made worse movies than that.

Neither one (including Soderbergh himself) has ever topped Erin Brockovich.

Shame on Erin for not putting out.

Erin Brokovich is a great movie that people assume must be shite because its entertaining

Pete Scholtes needs to come in here and paste his great defense of EB.

I think people assume it must be shite because Julia Roberts is in it, surely?

she's great in it, really funny

Most subtly "awww" moment: at a restaurant, in the movie's first third, answering her son's question about why she didn't order food for herself, she says something about her boss having taken her out for a big lunch, when it's clearly signaled that she ordered nothing because she can only afford to buy a burger for her kid.

Ang Lee. I don't get why Winterbottom is in this poll, and Ang Lee beats out Soderbergh. SS has done some gems, but he's also veered into hackdom too often (Ocean's 12 & 13). BBM is a truly great film IMHO. It's easy to disdain the critical reaction to some of Ang Lee's films and hold that against him, but that's not really fair. Is it AL's fault that people who had been oblivious to a whole genre of film suddenly started singing its praises because AL made a movie that was more palatable for them? (Well maybe that is his fault, actually)

Anyways, Ang Lee because his best work is better than SS's best work, although I did love a couple of SS's movies.

^ muddled post. I'm mostly referring to Crouching Tiger in the critical reaction bit of my post.

"people who had been oblivious to a whole genre of film"

what genre of film do you mean?

oh okay

"Is it AL's fault that people who had been oblivious to a whole genre of film suddenly started singing its praises because AL made a movie that was more palatable for them?"

It's his fault the film is kind of dull though.

whether Crouching Tiger is more "palatable" than authentic Hong Kong sword romances is kind of moot; it was a big popular success because all those older movies weren't produced and hyped by a major US studio, so the American masses never saw them.

i finally got around to streaming 9 songs via netflix the other night and lord what i tedious movie. after about 15 minutes i just started fast-forwarding looking for any semblance of a story or characters i might possibly care about. the sex scenes were lousy, the music scenes were dull, the characters were unbearably irritating. what a terrible idea all the way around.

Even a terrible movie like Kafka has Alec Guinness' blinkered self-importance.

I agree with you, Alfred.

"and make less of a deal about it"

Doesn't he wear t-shirts saying "I HOLD MY OWN CAMERA THANK YOU VERY MUCH"? What a jerk.

There is at least one American feature filmmaker I can name who is in at least a few year-end polls in 2010, owns his own cameras, does his own sound and editing, is maybe even more prolific than Steven Soderbergh and has been making films twenty years longer...and he has barely ever been mentioned on ILX!

(oh and before you say "OK but it's some obscure experimental bore", he has also worked with major famous movie star Willem Dafoe Haha =))

xp-practically!

Werner Herzog shot his film My Son, My Son, What Have Ye Done? with the Red One. He was disappointed with the camera's long reboot times, saying "It drove me insane, because sometimes something is happening and you can't just push the button and record it". He described the camera as "an immature camera created by computer people who do not have a sensibility or understanding for the value of high-precision mechanics".

Just say who it is adam

an immature camera created by computer people who do not have a sensibility or understanding for the value of high-precision mechanics

lol

There is at least one American feature filmmaker I can name who is in at least a few year-end polls in 2010, owns his own cameras, does his own sound and editing, is maybe even more prolific than Steven Soderbergh and has been making films twenty years longer...and he has barely ever been mentioned on ILX!

Dude, it goes without saying we're all huge Tyler Perry fans.

xxp-James Benning, but I'm sure there are other examples like this

I thought you were you talking about Paul Schrader!

*googles james benning*

pfft he makes documentaries that doesnt count

The Medea Experience

I don't know if I'd say "documentaries" but he does sometimes use actors and scripts too. Also, I think Denis Cote is a narrative filmmaker who does nearly everything. Is s10cki around to confirm?

SO - I liked The Trip. What was with reusing the Michael Nyman music from Wonderland, though?

i like ang lee his movies are almost always enjoyable

Director (42 titles)
2009 Ruhr (documentary)

2007 RR (documentary) (as JB)

2007 Casting a Glance (documentary)

2005 One Way Boogie Woogie/27 Years Later (documentary)

2004 Ten Skies (documentary)

2004 13 Lakes (documentary)

2004 Los (documentary)

2001 Sogobi (documentary)

2000 El Valley Centro (documentary)

1998 Utopia (documentary)

1997 Four Corners (documentary)

1995 Deseret (documentary)

Lynch, too, is a do-it-all guy.

I thought you were you talking about Paul Schrader!

lol this is what I thought too

Black Swan's script was the thing I enjoyed most about it! So many hilaire lines

― Joolia Stylez (admrl)

This is from the guy who didn't think I Love You Phillip Morris was funny. I'll set you straight next summer, young man.

just in the last 10 years, S.S. has made Bubble, Solaris, Che, The Girlfriend Experience and his new Spalding Gray auto-eulogy, all leagues better than anything ILX's fave arrested-development foot fetishist has managed.

you liked Che? part 1 was okay, part 2 was atrocious

man I've never even heard of the Girlfriend Experience prior to this thread. weird

what I saw of Che was pretty good, but didn't get to catch the whole thing.

Solaris, ugh I don't even like Tarkovsky's version

xxxp-Well yeah, because it wasn't funny!

Also Princess Tam Tam, citing IMDB in an argument!! - now you really ARE like one of my students! (I'm just kidding you, honest). I guess you could call those films "documentaries", they certainly do document things, but this would be the first time I've heard Benning referred to as specifically a "documentary filmmaker". Though tbf, he probably is my kind of "documentary filmmaker".

yeah surprised by love for Girlfriend Experience, havent seen it but i just assumed it was like Full Frontal part 2

Also what is happening next summer? Is there an ILX film nerd tagteam wrestling event I didn't hear about?

no, I am visiting LA probably :)

LA Probably would be a good name for a movie

About a film critic from NY who likes baseball and comes to LA and doesn't drive...and all the humorous things that happen to him, and the wacky west coast flakes he meets.

Like Greenberg?

but with an older d00d, from the internet

Just so you know, I can probably set you up a brunch meeting with Will Ferrell if you want one.

I am a generational contemporary of Ben Stiller, you rude man!

haha really, you have a very senior ILX persona.

The GFE (streaming on Netflix) has editing similar to The Limey, great performances by non-actors (especially by a gym owner playing a gym owner), no film lighting (except for two scenes, according to SS, and he wish he hadn't done those), and a story so perfectly centered in pre-election mid-crash October 2008 NYC.

I actually liked both parts of Che just fine (might even have preferred the second one.)

What did you like about it?

soderbergh is good. informant like a motherfucker.

che not so much.

but winterbottom can't direct for shit.

I thought it was a well told presentation of these two (three if you count the UN visit) periods in Che's life. I thought the acting was generally very good (even if Del Toro's performance tended towards a bit towards torpor) and it flowed pretty well (for being what five+ hours?)

I forgot that Soderbergh even directed the Informant!

i loooved the Informant

Just want to mention btw I found Greenberg unwatchable so Morbs please make your LA probably movie better than that piece of shit.

I may be in the same room w/ Vin Scully at some point, will that make it better?
adamrl is the auteur tho, talk to him.

admrl will be holding his own camera himself, but he won't brag about it like SOME people.

I may be in the same room w/ Vin Scully at some point, will that make it better?

autographed package of Farmer John bacon or it didn't happen

Alex should do my PR

I already do! I have a whole collection of admrl themed t-shirts!

Funny, I totally forgot about "Informant!" which is great for the polar bear pondering alone:

When polar bears hunt, they crouch down by a hole in the ice and wait for a seal to pop up. They keep one paw over their nose so that they blend in, because they've got those black noses. They'd blend in perfectly if not for the nose. So the question is, how do they know their noses are black? From looking at other polar bears? Do they see their reflections in the water and think, "I'd be invisible if not for that." That seems like a lot of thinking for a bear.

(Not to keep talking Contagion a year early, but it's got the same screenwriter as The Informant!.)

that Informant bit is funny to read. the film fell flat as a pancake.

lol @ the phrase "can't direct for shit"