why are ilxors so polite and measured in comparison to the comments fields in the national press?

I have noticed that ilxors are far more polite and measured in their responses to political threads than the general public is in the comments fields of the news websites.

For example, nobody has reacted to the scandals about MP's expenses with quite the same apoplectic rage as has been shown on these sites, or indeed on Question Time on TV.

Why do you think this is? What is it that is so different about the subset of people that post on here that distinguishes them and their opinions from those of the public at large?

Our opinions tend to be our own, Mark - not ones made up by bored website administrators (which is what most of HYS etc. consists of).

that is an interesting theory.

It may account for some of the posts on HYS etc, but can't possibly account for all.

If you are in a conspiratorial frame of mind, would you also posit that the audience of Question Time consists of BBC employed stooges?

The audience apply to be on Question Time, so I imagine they're stuffed full of diddies with various chips on their shoulders

The rationale behind QT is the same behind most comments boards and 'phone-in shows - you want reactions (because controversy means Higher Ratings) so you get a rotating cast of "characters" whom you know are guaranteed to cause a stir. Kilroy and other such programmes were well known for having professional actors on them who'd turn up on multiple shows.

Plus the usual smattering of besuited creeps who actually belong to a political party and harbour ambitions to a political career

nobody has reacted to the scandals about MP's expenses with quite the same apoplectic rage as has been shown on these sites, or indeed on Question Time on TV

Or indeed like Yasmin Alibhai-Brown on Question Time on TV. The sneer as she mentioned Michael Martin's working class background was truly something to behold.

The reach of those websites is much wider and it therefore attracts more nutters and idiots. If ILX had a userbase the same size as the BBC or Guardian websites it would be just as batshit.

ILXors actually talk to one another from day to day, and are not just bullhorning their rage into a storm wherein it's unlikely that anyone will pay attention or (more importantly) respond and actually take them up on a point -- so it's a bit like saying "why are people having a conversation so polite and measured in comparison to people screaming as passersby in the park"

I feel like I really know "Topsy-Turvy" now

nabisco's nailed it, i think. it's the same reason that people in your sitting room don't talk in the same manner as people with bullhorns on straight corners.

but i'm probably not the best person to comment, as i'm more likely to have the HYS comparisons thrown at me than nearly anyone else :)

street corners, jesus. that's what you get for having road designers shouting at each other at the next desk.

i think if our political threads are at all tolerable, it's because most of us know better than to post on them.

What are they shouting?

"THOSE CORNERS ARE BENT! WE NEED STRAIGHT CORNERS!!!"

and i'm not saying they're especially tolerable!

mark- welcome to road design in the west of ireland.

HYS does not represent the public at large btw.. it represents people who bother registering on news websites in order to make a comment that would get scrolled off after 5 mins?? it's hard to put effort into what you say when it's so unrewarding.

ppl on ilx like to think of themselves as being more considered and capable of more astute observations than the average trollsmanship in the comments boxes of national newspaper sites.

"Or indeed like Yasmin Alibhai-Brown on Question Time on TV. The sneer as she mentioned Michael Martin's working class background was truly something to behold."

really?? i wouldnt have expected that from her.

I'm hoping that is irony

its not. ive read one of her books (tho they do all seem to be based around basically saying something very similar so maybe i dont need to read the rest) and tho i did get a *bit* of some of your typical 'the working classes are like THIS', every time ive seen her on tv, she has pretty sound views. not your typical u/c or m/c sneerer.

She's a hideous snob

maybe. shes had some good stuff to say about race/culture/britishness etc.

but then i just accept the u/c and um/c dominance of our media as a given.

i just accept the u/c and um/c dominance of ilx as a given

i just accept the u/c and um/c dominance of our media as a given

oops wtf

youre a very accepting person.

that's a given

anyway ilx has always been v genteel

I am constantly amazed (and pleased) at the basic reasonableness on here. Look around you, the sheer amount of aggression shown elsewhere is frightening.

why do you find it frightening? When people don't get passionate about political matters they are denounced as apathetic. It does rather seem that the GBP can't win, no matter what they do.

ppl on ilx like to think of themselves as being more considered and capable of more astute observations than the average trollsmanship in the comments boxes

yes, I think they do like to think that, and sometimes they are right to think that. why is that, do you think? Is it because there is a high standard of education amongst ilxors, relative to the populace at large, or is it something more complex and nuanced than that?

Passionate is fine - it's the threats of physical violence that frighten me. Hot air though they may be.

if we put more graphics in ilx i think it'd get angrier v quickly

Passionate is fine - it's the threats of physical violence that frighten me

People reach the end of their tether, I think. When they find that they cannot influence the system for the better and at the same time are v. dissatisfied with the status quo, some form of displacement activity is the result and for those with a violent disposition, they will take the form of violence, or threats of violence.

One problem with the expenses scandal is that MPs in all 3 main parties are implicated. So where do people turn? Most people are aware of the dangers of the far right and a fair few think we are in the EU like it or not, so see no future in UKIP. So it's either the Greens or not voting (with all the implications the final choice entails).

TBH, while I agree with Dingbod that the scale of meejah manipulation is massive and that any attempt to put across any opinions that don't bow to the general idea of the greatness of free market capitalism are likely to be drowned out, I *don't* agree that ppl are less angry about the bankers than the MPs' expense scandal. The pot has been boiling for ages now, it is only now that there has been sufficient anger for it to actually boil over.

will there be a NOTOPARLIAMENT party formed in a couple of years like the genius no2eu party that says "HI VOTE FOR ME IF YOU WANT ME TO NOT DO ANYTHING ON YOUR BEHALF SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO"!!!

xp
It's yer actual shifting dominant paradigm is what it is, innit?

maybe i'm not looking in the Right places but i notice a lot of "get this government OUT, election NOW" type spouting from various tossers but hardly ever direct praise of the opposition.

^politics^

or, maybe people still remember the great new dawn of labour 97?

of course there's no direct praise of the opposition! All the parties with MPs in the House at present are implicated as much as each other. The only praise will obviously be for politically motivated individuals who are not incumbent MPs and even that will be accompanied by a fair degree of scepticism - what if the newly elected individuals from smaller parties, or no party, end up being corrupted by the system once in situ? Then we haven't really gained anything.

Well, it'd look silly if David Cameron went round saying "The Conservatives are wonderful"

My impression is that Right Now, he wants an election, to avoid people actually organising an "anti-party" party to stand against them all.

As opposed to five independants standing in each constituency..

and forming parties as soon as they got in?

russian yacht parties

i can't really attest that anyone i know is talking about mps' expenses - in the office right now it's all recession and maddie, ditto in the supermarket queue, but then maybe i work in the wrong office and shop in the wrong supermarket. but no one i know seems remotely bothered about mps cleaning moats or buying biscuits, as opposed to e.g. id cards.

All the parties with MPs in the House at present are implicated as much as each other

Right but then why be so keen on ousting this gov if the alternative is more of the same? It's almost as if they haven't thought it through...this predates the expenses issue tho, so isn't necessarily regarding issues which affect all parties.

simple boredom? "time for a change"-itis?

the media know full well that a cameron government wouldn't and couldn't change anything. how could they if they have to deal with an obama administration? it would all be infinitesimal domestic mantlepiece rearranging. but strawmen invariably run out of straw and so the media has to find a new one to knock the stuffing out of for the next half decade (if cameron's VERY lucky).

It's almost as if they haven't thought it through

You don't say...?

I do think there's a vague perception (among idiots maybe, but still) that this is all "the government"'s doing and even though all the parties are implicated getting rid of Brown will somehow fix everything.

the guardian still seems (foolishly?) optimistic that brown can pull himself out of this one and the truth is that the tories are far and away the main offenders here.

but brown just doesn't have it, does he? he can't communicate authority or reassurance so there's no point in his doing anything really. whereas obama just gets on with it and more importantly is seen to be getting on with it. it's a fundamental "people skills" issue. not that cameron is significantly more blessed with those than brown but he has the benefit of not having been road tested yet, so people are prepared to give him a chance just as they did with major in '92.

"Is it because there is a high standard of education amongst ilxors, relative to the populace at large, or is it something more complex and nuanced than that?"

must be. nothing but eatonites here, far as i can tell.

I do think there's a vague perception (among idiots maybe, but still) that this is all "the government"'s doing and even though all the parties are implicated getting rid of Brown will somehow fix everything.

i'm sure that's a part of it, but when you're unhappy with the whole stinking lot of them, then what's the alternative but to vote out the ones currently in power? any other vote is taken as approval for the status quo, at least a change of govt serves to keep the electorate a little closer to mind.

the trouble is where do you go when all the main parties offer nothing but the status quo? the far right? thatcher was quick to spot that in '78 and acted accordingly (by taking on their trappings in a more marketable format) but cameron doesn't seem capable of making that quantum leap. especially since most of the proposed new influx of tory mps at the next election seem determined to make it 1979 again.

I guess the lack of alternatives is what we're all a bit upset about. I know I am. Not going to vote Tory though (in fact I will probably vote Labour in a likely futile attempt to keep Cameron out, but I won't feel very good about it)

xpost

that's the party system for you. heartily sock of it in ireland too, fwiw, but we've had our tories in for the past 15 years or so.

i'm in hammersmith and fulham which the tories won from labour on a 7% swing in 2005. about 5000 votes ahead of labour so logically i should be voting labour next time to try to overturn this - the lib dems were a very distant third and i doubt that any disillusion is going to give them the massive swing they'd need.

but again i'm not exactly hopping, skipping or jumping at the prospect of doing so.

certainly given that h&f's council tax has actually gone DOWN this financial year there is little or no incentive for voters to change their allegiances. why should turkeys vote for xmas &c.

really, it's just turkies consistently voting to remain turkies, but there you go

I think this has to do with the general reasonableness of ilx beyond just political matters.

My wife participates in a forum where the members are constantly bickering with each other, there's loads of drama and scandal and folks are always flouncing off.

I know that there are personality clashes on ilx from time to time, but these usually remain pretty contained. They don't consume the whole board with every member piling on and giving their opinion about this or that member's drama.

Also, a lot of ilx is based on the notion of taking a critical stance and defending it in a reasoned manner. Essentially, it's a forum for critics and people that like criticism. This means that it is filled with many people who understand the value of talking through your position.

The fact is, most people do not possess the skills needed to participate in a modest debate means that threads and forums tend to degenerate into overheated shouting matches regardless of topic.

trying defending voting tory, just for five minutes, and see how many ilxors value you 'talking through your position'. ILX has teeth like any other message board or forum.

Yeah, I wouldn't say that ILX is exactly balanced or unbiased when it comes to the range of political outlooks, but it's members tend to be smart enough to recognize no-go zones.

I was going to say, "possibly because most have a similar politial POV", but there it is.

Another thing that I've noticed is that the personal experience level/amount of experience online has something to do with it, i.e. it's like getting all-caps emails from your aunt who's only had an account for like 2 months rather than somebody who's been doing it for 12 years.

The other thing is that different boards cover different beats. We don't sound like some rightwinger/LGF/freeper/bee enn pee-repping site b/c we're not a buncha rightwing douches.

I wld like to think ILXors are just people who have are above average in the etiquette department. I could be deluding myself, but the bulk of evidence seems to bear this out.

Also 12 years oh my god it really has been that long.

No wait...13!

God I fucking love the internet.

My opinion is that ducks are pretty cool, and I don't mind part owning a duck house.