POLL: Should ILX put ads in front of unregistered lurkers in exchange for money?

yes

sorry omar :-(

all the way, fleece these fools

can i get my $20 back if you do this

Yes.

yes.

Hell yes but I would like all you lurkers to know that we love you and in no way consider you fools except for the dicks who ruin ILM polls.

heck yeah

do it barrage them knock em out with adsssss

Yes, but the Register button should say "Register - it's free" so we don't scare away potentially active new users.

No, I remember seeing this format for the first time after the horrors of so many other forums (fora?). So clean, so clutter free - everyone should be able to see this. And I'm happy to pay for them to do so. It's like the one adfree place left after the BBC and they've got HYS which is even worse. Now...if I could just get these penguins from sliding across the top of every post.

Just so the results of my back of the envelope estimates aren't lost from the other thread:

In an hour after I restarted it at midday, there were about 10,000 hits. Can't tell the difference between logged in and not without making code changes, but I'd guess that 75% of these are logged in people, so 2,500. Guessing this translates into about 150,000 per day, which squares up with the roughly 3-4 million hits a month I've looked at in the past.

It looks like Google Ads only generate cash on click through.

― Keith

Hmm. Well, using these example numbers from this article (estimates of a 1% click through rate and 25 cents per click), the amount of money generated per day would be:

150,000 visitors per day x .25 not logged in = 37,500 unregistered hits per day

37,500 x 1% click through rate = 375 click throughs per day

375 click throughs x 25 cents = $93.75 per day

$93.75 per day x 365.25 days in a year (including leap year) = $34,242 per year

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA ok that article's assumptions of 1% click through rate and 25 cents per click must be wrong. But even if we assume significantly lower assumptions - 0.2% click through rate and 10 cents per click - the total would still come out to...$2739 per year!

WE'RE GONNA BE RICH

― ya'll are the ones who don't know things (Z S)

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/6/6c/Bling.jpg

OK, let's assume that pay per click has taken a dive in the last year. Now it's 7 cents per click. Also, we'll assume that ILX unregistered users click on ads less than most other people do, because they're too busy looking for guess papers, and use a mere 0.1% click through rate (1 out of every 1000 hits results in someone clicking on an ad). Also, we'll assume that Keith's estimate of 25% of ILX hits as unregistered/not-logged-in is too optimistic, and that the true figure is instead 15%.

With 3.5 million hits a month, that still results in:

3,500,000 hits per month x 15% unregistered = 525,000 unregistered hits per month.

525,000 unregistered hits x 0.1% click through rate = 525 clicks per month

525 clicks per month x 7 cents per click = $36.75 per month, or $441 per year.

And that's with the negative nancy assumptions all around.

― ya'll are the ones who don't know things (Z S)

To sum up:

I think that a reasonable estimate of the revenue from using AdSense on unregistered users only would be $1000-2000 per year. If negative nancy assumptions are used, drop that to $500 (which would still be almost half of the money needed and make fundraising less of a hassle), and if positive polly assumptions are used we could be on the internet together in tropical paradise.

― ya'll are the ones who don't know things (Z S)

Do we really want active new users who are frightened away by a text ad up the side of the page?

good question

Have to say that Google's popularity has been badly dented by running ads tho.

Where is this money going?

Is this poll not a little one-sided, given that unregistered users can't vote?

didn't we just raise enough money btw

Can I change my vote to no now I've read what Ned said and I realized I completely agree?

Experimenting would be interesting, OK, but once casual visitors/lurkers disappear they're gone and you can't just get them back by turning the ads off. Not that this is a commercial site that's selling anything, of course - (what do we have against lurkers again?)

Yes, but the Register button should say "Register - it's free" so we don't scare away potentially active new users.

OTM

Have to say that Google's popularity has been badly dented by running ads tho.

this has nothing to do with whether google is popular or not. these ads show up on sites regardless of how the site is found.

So clean, so clutter free - everyone should be able to see this

Which they could do by registering, for free.

xpost

Point was that people don't go "urrrrrrgggh I can't use Google it has horrible adverts on it".

At least I hope they don't.

I guess I just don't understand why we would suddenly want to use ads when we've only just raised enough money in an hour to host the thing for a year. This is with just over 60 or so people donating out of a community of more than 3000 active users and growing. It doesn't seem unreasonable to assume we could raise a similar amount of cash next year quite easily.

So out of interest, proponents of ads... Why do you want them? Do you think they would add to the site, or do you think we won't be able to raise enough money ourselves? Or some other reason?

Register button should say "Register - it's $1500" so each new user funds the site for a year.

you know sometimes I look at this site on places where i'm not logged in

the ads wouldn't bother me since i am registered, i guess i'd just have to log in when i don't normally do so (or just not stop by here when I wouldn't log in) but it still makes me wonder why i donated $20 if this is under discussion.

This is the stupidest fucking idea ever. We had a problem and we fixed it in 45 minutes. It cost me $10. Why should we be giving Google any money?

HEY GUYS LETS GET TOGETHER AND RAISE MONEY FOR A BIG COMPANY AND SCARE AWAY POTENTIAL POSTERS! AWESOME!!!!

Third option: i vote whichever is less work for the mods. i am certainly not opposed to ads for luckers in principle.

thank you keith, thank you omar, thank you whiney

whiney, is everything ok?

Yes. This is 2009, for fuck's sake, and the internet is not some free-ass hippy utopia.

Also: if I was a lurker, a couple of poxy ads -- THAT WOULD GO AWAY WHEN I REGISTERED TO POST -- would be a long, long way down the list of potential things that would put me off ILX: many, many places below "threads about Animal Collective and Coldplay", f'rinstance.

scaring away potential new posters is probably the best thing we can do for ILX imho.

I am totally up for some kind of new rolling thread game where we all post and try and manipulate the Google ads for lurkers. The ads on ILTMI alone would be hilarious.

I think that a reasonable estimate of the revenue from using AdSense on unregistered users only would be $1000-2000 per year.

Wow, we could have Google Ads all the time or politely ask 63 people to chip in their lunch money once a year. Sounds awesome, glad we're having this riveting discussion.

scaring away potential new posters is probably the best thing we can do for ILX imho.

"See, Mr. President, it was this site I used to post on before I helped save the Internet."

"I don't know, the ads are putting me off."

If we could figure out a way to scare away existing posters.

Register for free so you can help donate next year because there's no advert click throughs because you registered!

i'm gonna register 100 sock accounts and vote no on this

I voted no, because tempting though the idea of getting a $34k party-boat cheque from Google is, we *clearly* don't need the money and there are tax hassles to having it. Also I really like having a completely ad-free site on the net.

I do get that this is leaving free money on the table, tho.

this riveting discussion

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I paid and was happy to do so, because I enjoy ILX. I would pay again if required next year. But I think they should consider trying out ads for a month or so - just to see what it brings in. If everybody hates it we can have a huge clusterfuck thread then go back to how we were.

just dying laughing at people - registered, regular posters - who have a problem with this

Yes. This is 2009, for fuck's sake, and the internet is not some free-ass hippy utopia

Yeah, and it never was, but that doesn't mean we all have to join in sucking from the mighty Google teat. Especially as we don't have to which we have just proved in one hour. Also if I'm a little bit utopian, so what, it's all I've got left.

AND WHY IS EVERYONE SHOUTING!

Why do you want them? Do you think they would add to the site, or do you think we won't be able to raise enough money ourselves? Or some other reason?

Good questions.

1) I don't want them. As I said on the other thread: I just think it's a good time to experiment while we've got a bit of breathing space. Just because we solved that particular cash crisis in a matter of minutes, it doesn't mean we desperately want to do it again (do we?) ... and if we do have to do it again, I'm all in favour of having a target made smaller by some kind of ad-related pot.

2) I don't think anyone thinks ads would add to the site (although they'd probably be of marginally more value than, say, that Coldplay/AC thread).

3) Again: we raised the money easily there, and I'm pretty sure we could do it again next year if we needed to. Even with ads, I'm pretty sure we'll need to hunt down the back of the sofa (under the trucker hat) for some loose change to make up the difference. But I think the one thing this is hammering home is that we can't take anything for granted: hosting can disappear, costs can increase, servers can break. If we can have a tiny little piddle of income, why not go for it?

4) Like I say, all I'm advocating is a trial period. It might not work, for all manner of reasons. But to just flat-out ignore the possibility, at a time when we've just been rudely awoken to the fact that ILX does need cash to survive, seems a little odd.

^^^

Do we really want active new users who are frightened away by a text ad up the side of the page? Animal Collective threads and Dr. Morbius lurking in the political threads?

is the amazon affiliates link replacement only turned on in certain threads? $14/mo seems light -- I'm getting like $5/mo on a site that likely has 1/10000th the traffic and relevance of ilx.

It should be on in all threads. Just looking at last month's report, it was 326 clicks on Amazon US, giving £7.25 in revenue, plus 215 on Amazon UK, giving £2.78. How does that compare to yours? I know Skimlinks takes a cut, I'm not sure how large.

i got like 191 clicks but only 7 conversions --> $5.05 --> £3.2
if those 326 are not clicks but actually conversions, I think that means skimlinks is taking a lot.
adding a tag is not super-difficult, if that's all skimlinks is doing.

Yeah, that was 33 conversions, so it does look like they're taking a bit, huh.

yeah that seems really really low

no, i noticed it 6 months ago

ha, I guess I am bad at updating ghostery

still on the record as saying "shove ads in front of random googlers and let stet spend the excess on mink underwear"

OK, I've put ads on for unregistereds, let's see what the outcome is. If you see an ad (after logging in on that browser) let me know asap and I'll investigate.

sweet

time to start generating some content

YES WE SHOULD SETH

I guess they take a while to kick in? I don't see ads in Safari or Chrome. No adblockers installed on either, I don't think.

Logging out isn't enough to show the ads -- we have some registered users who prefer to only log in to post and I didn't want them to have to see ads either.

Try Chrome's Private Browsing mode (Shift-Apple-N), you might see them then.

Meet Girls in Chat Rooms Flirty girls are fixing dates in chatrooms now. Meet a pretty cutie!

finally ilx pays off.

The ads are personalised, I guess. I get
Monitoring Tool Monitor App Servers, Databases, Web Apps, Systems, Websites
and
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We should get some Ukrainians to program this

Jaclyn Smith Reviews
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Top 100 Girls Names

Forget posting to or reading ILX, just the ads are a goldmine of entertainment

Great Talents Available Now!

hooray, hope it provides some revenoo

is this racist provides some winners

Does this mean I'm either going to have stay logged in all the time, or not do private browsing? :-(

UGH how do I make these things GO AWAY?

Am I going to have to login every morning and then log out again to make a cookie stick for the session?

Well maybe it will spur me into spending less time on ILX again.

You should only have to log in once to get the no-ads cookie, but if your PC is wiping all your cookies, then yes, you'll need to log in each time it does that (why is it doing that?). If you use private browsing we've no way of distinguishing you from a random unreg

I use private browsing because this is a work computer and they don't need to see my cheesecake addiction, but I guess I'll just have to log in ever morning. It seems to hold that cookie for the length of the session if I don't hit "remove cookie" when I log out.

But I'm scared that if I leave myself logged in on ILX when I'm away from my desk OfficeBoy will come over and start typing "HELVETICA R00LS" stuff under my name.

Private browsing won't stop your work from knowing you are using ILX all the time, it just stops it appearing in local history.

The ads are stopped by a cookie that's left when you log in. We never delete that (even if you hit "delete cookie" on logout) so you can log out in normal mode and they'll still be blocked.

What won't work is closing all your private browsing windows and reopening them, but for all the security that gives you you'd be as well off just setting your history to 0 days, I think.

Well, it also stops Google ads and things from tracking me day to day, so it stops me be followed about the internet by Cornish cottages and tweed waistcoats based on whatever I was looking at yesterday which I guess I find more annoying than ads on ILX. I'll stop moaning now.

"We never delete that (even if you hit "delete cookie" on logout)" ha, brilliant :-)

how does this work then, if I'm bored and click on the ads lots, does it make money for ILX - or do I actually have to buy stuff from the advertised site?

if your PC is wiping all your cookies, then yes, you'll need to log in each time it does that (why is it doing that?)

I have the same problem – this is a work computer and all cookies are wiped when I exit the browser.

if you click on the ads lots they treat it as fraudulent, so don't do that! :)

anagram: my work was set up the same way, but if it's IE, the settings might let you turn that off (uncheck "Delete browsing history on exit"). If they've blocked that setting as well it's going to be tricky, short of you logging in each day.

I'll have a think, there might be something we can do based on IP address.

yep, they've blocked that as well. never mind, I'm used to logging in three or four times a day :)

damn them, they think of everything xp

SMS Abstimm-Votingsystem
Voting via SMS/Twitter/Internet Abstimmungssystem Kongress & Event

All ILX ads should feature Ned Raggett

"Voiceover actors HATE him!"

lol

Tempting...

seeing these now, ew

also I am logged in and seeing them so idk

If you don't mind, can you "save as" the page and send me the HTML?

done

Good news and bad news:

Good news: Ads were making about £4 a day, which is almost enough to cover our hosting costs -- no more fundraising!
Bad news: Google suspended our account because of "adult" content on ILX.

I've updated the pages so they don't show ads on threads marked NSFW and appealed, but with the size of the archive we're probably not going to have marked all the threads they could object to as NSFW, so I'm not sure we'll be accepted. Oh well, it was exciting while it lasted.

(also I think I fixed that problem Ed III, though it's academic)

you're a prince, stet

we're probably not going to have marked all the threads they could object to as NSFW

Def initely. Among otheres, some porn'shopped pics of Laura Bush are buried deep in some thread out there.

love the MittRomney.com ad i got before logging in today

why did we do this

Exploiting untapped brand value iirc

Are they back on for unregs? I thought stet had to turn it off because of the all the rudey nudey pics?

Yeah, they accepted the appeal, so they're back on. Last 25 days' earnings were £10 short of the hosting bill, so it's on the right track, I think.

ugh what's this linked coupondropdown shit dnw

http://text-enhance.com/

Wait, what?

or maybe my firefox got infected..ilxor went down for a minute, when it came back up random words had become links to ads, but looks like this is a local issue. Carry on!