Tour de France 2009

Starting in Monaco this weekend.

Can Sastre win for the second year in a row? Probably not, but probably top five.
Can Armstrong win his eighth Tour in his comeback season? Nope, but he'll probably come in the top ten.
Can Andy Schleck turn the promise he showed in the mountains last year into a yellow jersey? Probably not this year, but he should be top five too.
Can Contador win it again? Yes, and he probably should do, but he might suffer from having Armstrong and Leipheimer dividing loyalties on his team (assuming Astana actually have the finances to last the distance).
Can Cavendish finish the Tour and get the green jersey? Hope so.
Can Wiggins and/or Millar get a time trial? Hope so.
Will there be several high profile doping scandals rendering several stage wins and overall classification positions meaningless and resulting in long drawn-out legal action? Probably. Maybe Menchov this year if the Humanplasma rumours are true.

lance will be strong. contador will win. he is hungry.

I just tried to find the thread where we discussed "Rough Ride" by Paul Kimmage, but failed.

thats a good read that book, stoked about le tour though, ventoux should be a good watch

Ronan - 'Bad Blood' by Jeremy Whittle is another good read.

a schleck

andy schleck will podium

Didn't know this was controversial

http://cyclocosm.com/2009/06/the-four-impossibilities-of-radio-free-racing/

"Starring the future wannabee governor of Texas!" should've been included in this thread title, somewhere.

Is it safe to say - though to say boldly - America wants Lance Armstrong to win this again, because Armstrong is a 'true American', and Europe vomits even thinking about another Lance win? I know most mainland European cyclist fans feel the latter. Where do the Brits stand in this?

Although I'm not nauseous, I'd still hate it if Armstrong wins Le Tour again. Why? He's just not a true cyclist. He ducks under the radar all year, nowhere to be seen, just to win one - the one - tour. It has been like that the previous seven times he won. Try giving that training schedule to people like Bettini, Sastre or Menchov.
Armstrong's good alright, but he ain't no cyclist. He's an entertainer. That's fine I guess, but it's not what cycling is about. Cycling is about struggling, it's about suffering. It's about being a perfect loser, not a perfect winner.

As for the win: it's a toss-up between Menchov and Contador I think. But I think Contador will take it. Menchov's in great form - having won the Giro - and is a better time trialist, but Contador will win dis thing I think, since he's got the better team backing him up.

All this and I haven't even gotten around mentioning all the incidents of doping that are bound to surface. Good times, good times.

if Lance does go into politics i take it he'd be a Republican? anyway he looked pretty good in the Giro this year, but i doubt he'll end higher than 5th in the Tour. Menchov was good as well despite nearly bottling it in the last km, god what a weird ending that was.
really looking forward to seeing what Contador does, he must be desperate to prove himself after missing last year, battling it out with Schleck in the mountains is gonna be so awesome.
also there's a stage ending in Barcelona this year, should be pretty memorable!

I think he's a Republican yeah. Barcelona is nice, but I'm already wetting my pants over the finish on Mt. Ventoux this year, on the day before Champs Elysee no less! That stage is going to rule so hard. Best planning in fifteen years if you ask me.

since he's got the better team backing him up

they are not necessarily backing him up

True Cutty, but say maybe, Contador (whether he falls or loses minutes in a contre le montre) is out of the race, Armstrong still has Contador, Klöden and Leipheimer behind him. That's a tough act to follow, for any team.

but not chris horner!

Try giving that training schedule to people like Bettini, Sastre or Menchov.

cmon man how many top 5s in the monuments, or even in the non monument classics, do sastre and menchov have?

how many top 5s on gc in grand tours does bettini have?

i dont even like la much but that comment is silly.

dudes who can race to win classics and grand tour gc are few-- and each objective is sufficiently hard nowadays that specialization is common. the seasons are raced MUCH harder now than the good old days. guys actually train to win Paris fucking Nice.

Er, Lance is a Democrat, guys. He just pretended to be Dubya's friend for cancer research money or something.

Contador is going to be your winner. Denny will try hard but he's won the Giro. Who can win two Grand Tours in the same calendar year these days?

Contador can and did. it's such a pity he didn't switch teams, Caisse could've used him. Denny is better than ever, yet i don't see him winning. 2nd place should be possible though.
as always rooting for the Schleck bros, but lately i got the feeling Andy will be like Damiano Cunego, a great promising rider for the Big Tours when he was younger, but later on more of a classics rider.
also there's 2 Japanese riders. i think those are the first since '96 or something when the Italian Polti team had one.

the Japanse fellow that rider for the Skil team has twitter, mostly Japanese but some great English stuff too.
I made break away again for get mauntain point! I fight again I took point! so I kept mauntain jersey!
http://twitter.com/Fumybeppu

So excited about this, as is Barcelona, I'm here for a conference and all of the bicing rental bike have tour stickers on them.

For the HC heart says Menchov, head says Contador and I hope Lance gets nowhere near it and retires once and for all. As much as I'd like to see Cavendish in Green on the Champs Elysée I'm not sure if he can make it all the way round, can't wait to be wrong on this one. Also can't wait to see him win on Wednesday and pull on the Green Jersey.

Who is Columbia's GC rider, they we're super strong in the tour and I presume Lockvist has a good chance for the white jersey, maybe wearing yellow a bit?

Haha, Ludo, that's a magnificent twitter:
I got mountain jersey @ Route du sud It was hard race but, I'm happy really mountain race this race so! Anyway good for my dream race!!

dudes who can race to win classics and grand tour gc are few-- and each objective is sufficiently hard nowadays that specialization is common. the seasons are raced MUCH harder now than the good old days. guys actually train to win Paris fucking Nice.

Hunt3r, I'm not disagreeing with you about specialisation. Ofcourse that's the case. But - and that's exactly what I mean - you ask me if I know riders with multiple top 5 classifications during a season. But Armstrong hardly ever participated in a race he maybe could not win. He never rode a classic or a tour to help a teammate win. Which, to me, is an essential part of cycling: you ride a lot of races, even the ones where maybe you yourself can't win, but say, a teammate can. Armstrong really was, and is, only in it for the Tour. It's an extreme example of specialisation rarely seen even today in this sport. And I don't care much for it.

@Ed, I think Columbia's GC rider is Kim Kirchen

^pretty much sums up how I feel about Lance, and why I still think LeMond and Merckx were better riders. (My two heroes, LeMond was the king when I first got interested in cycling and I still want a team 'Z' jersey, Merckx because I have one of his bikes)

xpost

You have one of Merckx' bikes? Whoah! If you mind me asking, how did that come about?

OTOH, Lance in the Giro seemed to have a reputation for being much more chatty in the peleton and handing out advice to younger riders. SO maybe he is just riding for the hell of it and the millions astana are paying him and is going to ride the tour as the peleton granny, in which case he will win my grudging respect.

Lance as the peleton granny, I like the sound of that :)

Not one he rode, just one the company with his name on makes.

It came about because I saw an advert on German ebay for Rennrad, It had a a blurry photo and a bad description, but it was cheap enough to take a punt based on what I thought it was. I got it for 200euros and then had to wrangle over the shipping for about a month which cost 100euros more. When it arrived it turned out to be a turn of the century merckx alu team with all chorus group.

Ah, thought you'd been given one he actually rode :) Sounds like a good buy though

so pumped, and am hoping to watch as much as possible this year

first doping case.. (it's sort of old but it finally has an effect) Dutch talent and rider for Silence Lotto has been replaced by Charles Wegelius in their team. Dekker's been suspended for a doping (epo of course) violation that actually happened in 2007. :)

it's sort of old but it finally has an effect) Dutch talent and rider Thomas Dekker etc.

Someone's really good at collecting news like this and saving it for the Tour innit? I'm always amazed by that.

yeah it seems WADA or UCI are really into retesting stuff with the new methods. there will be a day in cycling when a Tour winner of 6 years back is finally "caught" and is disqualified after all. useless if you ask me. if they can't catch you in a month it doesn't count. ;)

:D

So they'll catch Armstrong after his death then?

there is an 8 year statute of limitations, ludo

can someone knowledgeable give a rough sense of the likely....narratives(?) this year? or point me to a good overview ("what to expect from this year's tour" or whatever)?

i don't follow pro cycling at all, but it's mostly because the number of players/teams/etc. is sorta intimidating. i want some real TdF09 for Idiots kinda thing, just so i'm not lost/bored in the opening stages

watch the website http://www.velocitynation.com

one of their writers does the best narratives and tour coverage out there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwTUFNMTP-M

also they are one of the only US cycling websites out there that takes a definitively anti-lance stance, the others just suck at his teats

xpost

http://cyclocosm.com/2009/06/astanas-tour-selection-is-a-ticking-bomb/

thanx cutty

well, we're pretty much past the issue but:

But Armstrong hardly ever participated in a race he maybe could not win. He never rode a classic or a tour to help a teammate win. Which, to me, is an essential part of cycling: you ride a lot of races, even the ones where maybe you yourself can't win, but say, a teammate can.

this is like, waht, i dunno. cycling geir-ism? i am saying that it is not armstrong with whom you are at odds, it is modern pro racing. i am saying that you are factually mistaken that menchov or sastre race programs in which a support role is their primary objective in any particular race.

haha

http://www.bobkestrut.com/2009/03/25/same-as-it-ever-was-2/

Haha, that's gold!

vs schedule for first half

Stage 1: Saturday, July 4, 2009
Monaco
9:30am to 2:00pm: LIVE Daily Coverage
2:30pm to 4:30pm: Race Action Replay
5:00pm to 7:00pm: Race Action Replay
8:00pm to 11:00pm: Expanded Primetime Coverage
12:00am to 3:00am: Race Action Replay

Stage 2: Sunday, July 5, 2009
Monaco-Brignoles
8:30am to 11:30am: LIVE Daily Coverage
12:00pm to 2:00pm: Race Action Replay
2:30pm to 4:30pm: Race Action Replay
5:00pm to 7:00pm: Race Action Replay
8:00pm to 11:00pm: Expanded Primetime Coverage
12:00am to 3:00am: Race Action Replay

Stage 3: Monday, July 6 , 2009
Marseille - La Grande Motte
8:30am to 11:30am: LIVE Daily Coverage
12:00pm to 2:00pm: Race Action Replay
2:30pm to 4:30pm: Race Action Replay
5:00pm to 7:00pm: Race Action Replay
8:00pm to 11:00pm: Expanded Primetime Coverage
12:00am to 3:00am: Race Action Replay

Stage 4: Tuesday, July 7, 2009
Montpellier
8:30am to 12:00pm: LIVE Daily Coverage
12:00pm to 2:00pm: Race Action Replay
2:30pm to 4:30pm: Race Action Replay
5:00pm to 7:00pm: Race Action Replay
8:00pm to 11:00pm: Expanded Primetime Coverage
12:00am to 3:00am: Race Action Replay

Stage 5: Wednesday, July 8, 2009
La Cap d'Adge - Perpignan
8:30am to 11:30am: LIVE Daily Coverage
12:00pm to 2:00pm: Race Action Replay
2:30pm to 4:30pm: Race Action Replay
5:00pm to 7:00pm: Race Action Replay
8:00pm to 11:00pm: Expanded Primetime Coverage
12:00am to 3:00am: Race Action Replay

Stage 6: Thursday, July 9, 2009
Gerone - Barcelona
8:30am to 11:30am: LIVE Daily Coverage
12:00pm to 2:00pm: Race Action Replay
2:30pm to 4:30pm: Race Action Replay
5:00pm to 7:00pm: Race Action Replay
8:00pm to 11:00pm: Expanded Primetime Coverage
12:00am to 3:00am: Race Action Replay

Stage 7: Friday, July 10, 2009
Barcelona - Andorre Arcalis
8:00am to 11:30am: LIVE Daily Coverage
12:00pm to 2:00pm: Race Action Replay
2:30pm to 4:30pm: Race Action Replay
5:00pm to 7:00pm: Race Action Replay
8:00pm to 11:00pm: Expanded Primetime Coverage
12:00am to 3:00am: Race Action Replay

Stage 8: Saturday, July 11, 2009
Andorre - La Vielle - Saint Girons
7:30am to 11:30am: LIVE Daily Coverage
12:00pm to 2:00pm: Race Action Replay
2:30pm to 4:30pm: Race Action Replay
5:00pm to 7:00pm: Race Action Replay
8:00pm to 11:00pm: Expanded Primetime Coverage
12:00am to 3:00am: Race Action Replay

Stage 9: Sunday, July 12, 2009
Saint Gaudens - Tarbes
7:00am to 11:30am: LIVE Daily Coverage
12:00pm to 2:00pm: Race Action Replay
2:30pm to 4:30pm: Race Action Replay
5:00pm to 7:00pm: Race Action Replay
8:00pm to 11:00pm: Expanded Primetime Coverage
12:00am to 3:00am: Race Action Replay Stage 19: Friday, July 24, 2009
Bourgoin Jallieu - Aubenas
8:30am to 11:30am: LIVE Daily Coverage
12:00pm to 2:00pm: Race Action Replay
2:30pm to 4:30pm: Race Action Replay
5:00pm to 7:00pm: Race Action Replay
8:00pm to 11:00pm: Expanded Primetime Coverage
12:00am to 3:00am: Race Action Replay

Stage 10 Tuesday, July 14, 2009
Limoges - Issoudun
8:30am to 11:30am: LIVE Daily Coverage
12:00pm to 2:00pm: Race Action Replay
2:30pm to 4:30pm: Race Action Replay
5:00pm to 7:00pm: Race Action Replay
8:00pm to 11:00pm: Expanded Primetime Coverage
12:00am to 2:30am: Race Action Replay

Stage 11: Wednesday, July 15, 2009
Vatan - Saint Fargeau
8:30am to 11:30am: LIVE Daily Coverage
12:00pm to 2:00pm: Race Action Replay
2:30pm to 4:30pm: Race Action Replay
5:00pm to 7:00pm: Race Action Replay
8:00pm to 11:00pm: Expanded Primetime Coverage
12:00am to 3:00am: Race Action Replay

boy sucks having a job now. last summer I could watch the whole dang thing live every day, eat a big bowl of granola/fruit, then go for a ride in the beautiful berkeley hills.

I don't even have a tv now!

yeah right now i'm trying to decide between morning motivational viewing and evening drinkin a beer viewing

unemployed yalllllllllll

morning motivational! it's great!

^^^that coverage is lances fault too i think. was vs schedule that aggressive last year?

no alp d'huez stage for the first time since 1976 :(

But there's the Mont Ventoux Steve, on the day before the Champs Elysee!

Sastre: "I've competed in four grand tours in less than a year: Tour, Vuelta, Giro and Tour, plus the Olympic Games, as well as an incredible number of events and activities, and that hasn't left me any time to rest."

damn, dude. i dint realize. you DO need rest, and well done.

Hey Carlos, Alberto raced in almost all those same races but WON them all...

giro/off/vuelta/off/tour
vs.
tour/vuelta/giro/tour

theres an end point problem, but over the period sastre mentions, ac raced 1/2 of the number of gts.

OK, so I am watching Ventoux stage from start to finish at work. WTF is Phil's "The one thing that Mont Ventoux is is WRONG"?

long?

Contador rules out move to Team RadioShack

Also, guess the Twitter:

Hung over and tired today, The Jack Daniels was a bad idea
about 7 hours ago from mobile web

Clue - not Andy Schleck.

well done Bradley

contador: i hate lance armstrong

not quite hate, and really understandable.

setting oneself up to be la's voodoo spite doll guarantees the awez next year.

now (Team Livestrong jr development team rider) Taylor Phinney is backing up LA via twitter. Early angling to get onto the Radio Shack team? some serious soap opera business going down.

not quite hate? because AC can win TdF on his own?

whatever. AC looks like a punk now.

idk they're both assholes (tm ddb) but LA did AC no favors by questioning AC's:

(a) experience
(b) loyalty
(c) commitment

almost daily in the press and then instead of celebrating his teammate's victory, he bails on him and parties with his bros kinda shows LA in a sad, graying ex-champion light:
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/46117000/jpg/_46117135_cont282.jpg
"the preciousssss"

also: versus and american media is 99% pro-LA which i "get" ("ah, noble-cause asshole vs. young, cocky asshole is the epic Disney battle of good vs evil") but AC was seriously understimated by a whole lot of people, getting little to no respect in a TdF most likely to be remembered as "Lance's comeback".

LA is just another entitled dbag imo

xpost, and to add insult to injury, the TdF org played the Dutch (Danish?) anthem instead of Spain's when honoring AC... dude gets zero respect~

When AC wins as many in a row as LA he can make shitty comments about how he doesn't respect LA. Until then, LA is the best TDF participant in the history of the Tour. Fuck an egotistical Spaniard. I hope he loses both balls.

why would he respect LA after what LA said about him?

Because LA is a better rider/Tour participant than he will ever be.

AC's statements left out of the American press:

+ "(Armstrong) was a great champion, and is still a great rider..." (ed: but is a dick)
+ "(Johan) gave Lance preferential treatment, because everything he has is due to Lance's success. It is normal behavior and I understand that."

lance doesn't deserve respect imo if he treats people like that

http://www.sfu.ca/~stscott/pictures/dealwithit.gif

....aaaaaaaaaand back to reality, AC has 2 TdF victories at age 26. He coulda/shoulda/woulda had 3 but age 26.

LA at age 26 was recovering from cancer and yet to be the rider that we know him as.

anything is possible, amigito.

lancearmstrong
hey pistolero, there is no "i" in "team". what did i say in March? Lots to learn. Restated.
about 2 hours ago from web

bradwiggins
Hey Cav, your a star, remember what we said, fuck Bob, life goes on, dont let sponser politics affect freindships.
12:41 AM Jul 27th from mobile web

wegelius
Saw one of those massive Airbus thingy planes in Paris. Wowchie!
about 11 hours ago from TwitterBerry

Twitter: it's like Dawson's Creek never ended.

quote included in the American press:

Even if he is a great champion, I have never had admiration for him and I never will," the 26-year-old Spaniard admitted.

Makes no sense. BTW AC, did you or did you not blow off direct orders during the TdF this year?

maybe he secretly never liked him because he'd heard about what a total dbag LA is and then found out for himself, therefore confirming it and now he feels comfortable saying it in public?

maybe theyre both preening macho dbags who are only interesting insofar as they provide soap opera theatrics to the aspie biker set?

lol, i thought that lance's tweet was fiction but it was sadly not... kinda wish he would have stayed retired (or off twitter).

barry bonds: 7 mvps
roger clemens: 7 cy youngs
LA: 7 TdF titles

maybe theyre both preening macho dbags

twitter exists to enable people to achieve this status. however, in this case there's probly much truth.

which elite cyclist are not preening macho dbags? Oh wait, Greg LeMond isn't. Just ask him.

I assume Lance was "following team orders" when he ordered his guys to the front on Stage 2 and gained 40 seconds on AC/Kloden, but of course AC didn't understand that there was no "i" in "team" when he attacked the Schlecks and dropped Amstrong/Kloden. Since when has protecting your teammates' top 10 GC placings been more important than, uh, trying to WIN the Tour? Ah, I get it now ... during all those years when Armstrong kept Landis/Beltran/Popo/Heras/etc. neutered while he was winning Tours, he was actually trying to protect them! Armstrong is a joke.

When AC wins as many in a row as LA he can make shitty comments about how he doesn't respect LA. Until then, LA is the best TDF participant in the history of the Tour. Fuck an egotistical Spaniard. I hope he loses both balls.

― brotherlovesdub, Monday, July 27, 2009 11:53 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

Wow... this really gets to you doesn't it?

Eddy Merckx is still the best TdF participant in the history of the Tour de France, by a long shot. Lance winning a title more only statistically ranks him above Merckx, but looking at the sheer heroism and jaw dropping way Merckx had to fight for his titles, this really is no competition.

this discussion between AC and LA gets boring now, AC should've acted like a champ and just forget all about it, he won anyway. (complaining and whining afterwards, meh)

meanwhile the doping allegiations* have finally started, it seems be a new TdF guide line to have doping cases AFTER the tour, so while it's going it can appear to be "clean".

*4th generation EPO, and some kind of fatburner, also insuline etc. etc.

Ludo, any links on that?

ha i'm loving this AC/LA itch tbh

In Lemonde.fr, Pierre Bordry of the french anti doping agency says it's AICAR (aminoimidazole carboxamide nucleotide, a muscle strengthening and fat burning substance) and Hematide, EPO of the fourth generation that is still in development and will probably be available commercially in 2011.

Both aicar and hematide have wikipedia articles if you want more info.

yeah i got that info from the Belgian tv text.. so no link.

still can't believe (even though it's been true for a 100 years) that cyclists are willing to take all these risks with medicine/drugs still in development.

Finally watched ventoux, then made E watch it from the tree line. Awesome stuff, contador never looked in trouble. Shame he didn't let the. Win do the talking and shut up about lance. Lance should have kept more gnomic as well. Looking forward to the vuelta now, although I presume Lance won't be there, I'd be surprised if he pulls on an astana jersey again.

Wondering what will happen to wiggins, will he lead for garmin or will they continue with Menchov? I'm really excited to see how Wiggins develops, I'm sure he can get better in another year, I'm also sure that the schlecks will as well and tony martin looked good on the ventoux and earlier in the race as well.

Glad cav and hushovd made up as well, that's going to be a great rivalry. Cav and columbia have either got to shut down hushovd on the breaks or get cav to be able to go out with him when he goes for intermediates.

See you all in a month for the vuelta.

good thing this risk taking cheating gene is isolated to cycling or wed be in heaps of trouble

xpost

lol.

Wondering what will happen to wiggins, will he lead for garmin or will they continue with Menchov?

Aren't you confusing Garmin and Rabobank here? Both orange jersey's though, so it's understandable :)

I think it's over between Menchov and Rabo though, he really blew it this Tour. I can see him heading back to Russia, there's lot's of rumours that Katusja want him.

If Cavendish put his mind to it, I reckon he could improve his climbing. Not to KotM standard, but good enough to rival Thor on those inter-col sprints.

I can't help feeling a teeny bit sorry for Menchov.

I am indeed, I blame it on being up at 3:30 am this morning.

I think it's over between Menchov and Rabo though, he really blew it this Tour. I can see him heading back to Russia, there's lot's of rumours that Katusja want him.

Ed got me thinking Menchov was making a very unexpected move. (also unexpected from Garmin, don't see what they need him) Katusja would be a wise choice.

Astarloza. EPO. 1 week before the start of the Tour.

http://www.watoday.com.au/breaking-news-sport/tour-stage-winner-suspended-over-doping-20090801-e4nz.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/aug/04/bradley-wiggins-interview-donald-mcrae

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/voigt-can-start-riding-again-in-two-weeks

Matt White has been directing us around southwest France for the last week. Allez allez allez!

Team Sky name six British riders but wait on Bradley Wiggins