Is It Like Watching Brazil?

And you know what? I think England can beat them.

Brazil's performances following a familiar pattern - very jammy opening win (cf. 1-0 v Spain [with their anti-Hurst moment] in '86, 2- 1 v Scotland [late own goal] in '98), then a stroll vs inferior opposition. Impossible to tell how good they'll be in the knockout stage.

10-60 minutes: Probably some of the best we played so far with Felipão coaching, team together with Cafu and Roberto Carlos just going mental at the passes, pretty good football

60-90 minutes: Practice, Felipão traded players and they didnt even wanted to play anymore just passing tha ball around till the game ends(Denilson - HORRIBLE!, Ricardinho - Quite good actually only one playing by that time)

The defense is still a pile of shit, Anderson Polga being the only one that did sumthin and Lucio pure wack, anything from Ireland to top will have a party in our defense. But im getting trustier and trustier at Felipão, he looks like he knows exactly whats he doing(Remember that out of the favourite teamns were the only ones wit 6 points)

AND DONT TAKE THE RONALDINHOS OFF THE GAME!!!!!! EVAH!!!!!(the aftah consense here is that it could be more WAY more)

Rolled up fivers, I reckon, as I believe he is OTM about Brazil: they don't look all there yet to this know-nothing-about-football person.

they are not *quite* living up to billing.

they haven't in ages though. I mean the skill is a given, but the spark of the last likeable Brazil team (1982) is gone forever. After the trauma of that 2nd round loss against Argentina in 1990 Brazil have been turned into a very cynical team. German-like almost.

But I'm impressed by the way they start to pressure on the opponent's half. This will always make them a difficult team to beat.

Aren't the Spanish considered one of the contenders, then? And what's more, they're definitely through (on Planet Bizarro, the following happens: Crc 2-3 Tur; Tur 3-0 Chi; Crc 2-0 Bra - out go Brazil).

Are we likely to see Luizao again in this tournament? I liked the name (and reckoned on the one of the 3 Rs getting crocked), so stuck him in my Fantasy Golden Boot side (which is doing very badly).

A few gorgeous touches have received rather too much enthusiasm: Brazil were very fortunate to beat Turkey (it wasn't a penalty, clearly), who are a good side but hardly one of the favourites. I've yet to see a side who have looked like winners over two games. Spain haven't entirely persuaded in two comfy wins over second raters, and all of the other favourites have dropped points somewhere against supposedly lesser opposition. Then again, winners don't always look the part in the groups. How qualification from the group stage is achieved (if it is) might have little effect on Argentina, France, Italy, Brazil, Spain, England and so on as the tournament progresses. If France qualify, I'd still much rather England avoid them. Can anyone dismiss the idea that with a fit Zidane and against England they would be extremely tough opposition, just because of two poor games with ZZ?

But now France are the ones who if they qualify would be in second place and we can actually top the group.

I think if we met we'd have a good chance as zidane wouldn't be match fit (there's a difference between being on the pitch and what you can do on it: see Beckham).

Brazil don't play magical football anymore and anybody who thinks that has been watching videos from the old days. In '94 they were very defensive, of course.

i think england will go far but at this stage the big teams can afford to not play their best football. I still think Italy and Argentina (though its tough for the latter: crespo/Imar will ahve to start) will come good and that England will put brazil out of their misery in the quarter finals. Spain are the other dark horses.

Ideal scenario: France stuff Denmark and Uruguay beat Senegal. France are 1st. England beat Nigeria and have to face, say, Uruguay - not bad. Argentina play France - one favourite out. The winner of that plays Brazil, eliminating another, while England play, perhaps, Turkey. That would mean only playing one favourite before the final! It's just about possible to imagine England winning it!

Sadly, it's also possible that the players get terribly overconfident, and we lose to a relaxed, free-flowing Nigeria. I don't expect that, though. I expect something in between...

That would be great. though i'd rather see france out now so it would better if thy'd lost to the danish (though the danish are very good and should not be underestimated).

I think if England played Brazil it would be fantastic though! i'd actually think we'd win it (i know its overconfident of me but I just don't think much against of this brazil team really! i mean they've struggled against turkey (a team who have a few good players but that is all!)).

I expect england to beat nigeria. Nigeria are probably the biggest disappointment so far (besides france but they didn't have zidane who is crucial)! i just don't know why they haven't played well! Puzzled but it works out for us...

"WHO got qualified to the second round this morning? WHO?? England??? WHOOO? *puts hands in the back of the ear to hear the shouting hataz*"

Now you brit "we would win brasil" fucks just shut up, kay

We're getting better every game. Our players are still getting used to each other, adapting to new formations, and R & R are getting their rhythm back after not playing for long periods. Turkey would have been more of a blowout had some players not tried to be too spectacular. (But they won't do it when it counts.) This is a foriegn concept to the ROBOBOREballers who think only of results and play without style & creativity. Believe it or not their are still players who think of football as a means of personal expression and theatre, even if their coaches don't and the sport is decaying in their homelands through curruption and economics. These stars still defy the odds to light up the sky with their own brand of inimitable football, exposing the mechanical players for the hacks they are.

Even starvation so servere it lead to tooth decay, underdeveloped muscular structure and bow legs could not stop Rivaldo from taking over. Gracious, humble, poetic, and sincere, Rivaldo is a cool superstar while Beckham is a vain popstar who desperatly courts fame of the lamest sort. As Noel G pointed out, football is being taken over by the man. Beckham takes 3 weeks of media classes talk to the press. "Just answer the fuckin question!" But there is still an antidote and room for free spirits. Why go to a Dixie Chicks show when their is a trancendent band next door?

Check out some pics of Rivaldo in his Brazilian club days. He looks so glamourous and elegant in his uniform, with the biggest smile you've ever seen.

OK, I realize I'm being cheesy, annoying, and writing way too much but it's how I feel. I know Brazil ain't like 70 or 82, but some traces of magic are still there and the players are cool. I know we likely won't win, but they are still playing ball that's great to watch and they were even laughing and enjoying themselves on the pitch yesterday.

Our biggest problem is health, it's unrealistic to expect Ronnie to last long and Ri's is knee is fucked. Ahh well. I can dream.

They would have scored there if it wasn't for Turkey's thug move. They also had a clear PK that wasn't called, so it's def. a fair result. Rivaldo was nice enough to signal several times to the keeper where he would put the ball. Just for the hell of it. Even so he was unbeatable.

How different is this squad from that which struggled to qualify? No Ronaldo in 2000-1, I presume.

Of course, Brazil were better vs Turkey than England were vs Sweden (I don't think anyone was claiming differently; blimey, I can think of 10 or 11 sides who turned in better first phase performances than England) - but a draw would've been a fair result.

Isn't the whole bleeding point that you don't know that? Like Trezeguet having that shot saved against Uruguay, like Ronaldo having two shots saved against China. Very few things in football are 'certain' - this world cup has been the best in my opinion because of this propensity to show little respect to status and reputation. He might well have scored, but then agin, the keeper might well have saved. Who can say? No-one.

Uncertainty of outcome is what makes sport so marvellous and why it's opposite is fundamentally antithetical to enjoyment of it.

You see - we *like* Brazil. A *lot*.

Rivaldo just did what he did to make sure the right call happened.

Mark: I'm not so sure about this one, although Rivaldo has never, to my knowledge, scored 5 in one match whilst playing against a girl in the opposition goals. At least I don't cheat.

--------------------

Roberto Carlos was one of four players to miss training on Monday, although team doctor Jose Luis Runco insisted it was merely precautionary. The left-back has a minor leg injury, while Ronaldo, Rivaldo and Cafu were put through their paces in the gym, separate from the rest of the team.

Runco said: "Roberto has a little bit of pain in his left calf and had some treatment.

"He is working again with the physiotherapist but he will train as usual on Tuesday."

The remaining three players are said to be fit, but the team doctor decided they would benefit more from a physical workout.

Coach Luiz Felipe Scolari is considering making changes to the team for their final group game against Costa Rica in order to protect those players who have been booked.

Forward planning

Should Ronaldinho, Roque Junior or Denilson pick up a further caution, they would be suspended for the first match of the knockout stages.

Scolari admitted: "We still have one more match ahead of us and we can still finish either first or second in the group.

"But we must remember that a player can be out for a game if they have two yellow cards. We have three players with two yellow cards."

Scolari already has scouts in Japan to report on Brazil's potential opponents in the next round.

"We are analysing the possible match-ups. We have people in Japan watching the games, but first I need to analyse what to do against Costa Rica," he said.

-----------------

Me again

Rivaldo's fundamentally defective character is what I was talking about. Every now and then he goes on television to complain that the Barça fans don't love him enough. He'll probably score 26 goals on Thursday, he always does something fantastic after I've been slagging him off.

Say what?!? :) What next? Roberto Carlos used to have an afro?

Roberto Carlos is of course great, because he feels the importance of the white shirt and all that sentimental bollocks we Real fans love. And I like how he usually tackles his opponent within 5 minutes, preferably to hurt him a bit otherwise to scare him off and then he can get on with his forward runs without bothering too much with his defensive tasks.

''He looks so glamourous and elegant in his uniform, with the biggest smile you've ever seen.''

The nice clean cut image of rivaldo as presented by the media that you just sneered at.

Admit it, Brazil are fucking garbage this year.

''Our players are still getting used to each other, adapting to new formations, and R & R are getting their rhythm back after not playing for long periods. Turkey would have been more of a blowout had some players not tried to be too spectacular. (But they won't do it when it counts.)''

Really! Are you sure abt that? I can't wait when R. Carlos gets caught in defense. I can't wait!

''Rivaldo just did what he did to make sure the right call happened.''

Rubbish!

Nonetheless, I think that they look complacent, and I fear for their chances.

My dislike of Roberto Carlos is largely based on his cheeky chappie image, as well as all the other things you pointed out, Omar.

Why we're not so keen on the Argies

the point is: where's the flair with this team? Where's the style?

I like EWngland and Brazil to meet. it would be great.

England have played better (though opposition has been tougher but brazil still struggled against turkey).

If you're advancing playing aesthetics into this, I submit that until such time as FIFA introduce merit points for artistic impression, such concerns are dud. Classic = winning the World Cup.

Can Brazil defend when they actually need to?

I would quite like Brazil to win it.

More realistically, I would be pleased with a freak win (the only sort I can imagine) for Belgium. We can beat Brazil, but we won't be favourites against them, and I am unimpressed with Belgium.

England bedaboozles me and now Brasil does it too, i have no idea of the score butim pretty sure you are already checking who can be up against you on the semis. As Nick said the score just might be 10-9, this team frightens me especially with Anderson Polga and Ricardinho on the bench

19 June 2002

The time Carlos Alberto put the boot into 'overrated' Pele.

Because England play Brazil on Friday, (in case you didn't know), we feel it appropriate to retell one of the best, and possibly tallest stories, ever published in this paper. It revolves around a friend of Standard Sport's who claimed to have sat next to the legendary Brazilian captain from 1970, Carlos Alberto, scorer of arguably the greatest World Cup goal ever, on a flight to Rio. As you would, the two got chatting about Pele 's place in the beautiful game. Expecting to hear praise heaped on Pele by his former Brazilian teammate - he was the greatest player in the world, etc, etc - imagine our man's surprise when he was told Pele was overrated. Alberto, our man insists, said that Pele was merely a good player in a superb side and not a patch on Diego Maradona, who inspired a poor Argentine side to become world-beaters. With Rivelino, Tostao, Jairzinho, Alberto and Gerson as team-mates anyone would look special. Was this a windup? Pele , the man who scored more than 1,000 goals and who was part of World Cupwinning squads in 1958, 1962 and 1970, was surely a legend. As he himself said: "In music, you only have one Frank Sinatra and in football you only have one Pele ." Stunned, our man listened as Alberto, skipper of the 1970 World Cup winners, argued his case. "What's Pele remembered for? The three magic moments people talk about are all misses." Alberto reckoned we were doing nothing more than cherishing Pele 's noble failures. Think about the three misses, he said. Miss No 1: the shot from the halfway line. In Brazil's opening match in Mexico on 3 June 1970, Pele noticed the Czech goalkeeper Ivo Viktor off his line. Pele , still in his own half, let fly. His looping shot had Viktor scrambling back towards the goal but the ball drifted inches wide of the post. "Just a miss," said Alberto. He could have a point. David Beckham and Nayim both managed to score from that distance. Miss No 2: Pele 's header against England four days later which produced the famous one-handed Gordon Banks save. It was a good save but even Tony Cascarino used to knock them in from that range for Millwall. Miss No 3: the famous dummy in the semi-final against Uruguay. As Ladislao Mazurkiewicz advanced, Pele deceived the goalkeeper with an outrageous dummy, ran round him and shot wide of the post. According to our man, Alberto said that this typified Pele 's desire to show off. Alberto said that after the game Gerson - known as 'the Parrot' to his team-mates because of his non-stop, blunt-talking - tore a strip off Pele . Shouting in Portuguese, 60 cigarettes-a-day man Gerson told Pele that his team-mates expected better than a bit of showboating. "We've been running our arses off to win the game and you try circus tricks instead of just putting the ball in the net," the Parrot screeched. So what about Alberto's own sublime moment - the goal in the 1970 Final? Brazil were 3-1 up against Italy when Clodoaldo dribbled through to feed Rivelino, who played it on to Jairzinho. The attacker passed square to Pele and, after four deft touches, he rolled a diagonal pass into the path of rightback Alberto. Even though the ball took a tricky bobble Alberto hit a screamer into the corner of the net. One of the goals of all time. Or was it? Alberto shrugged his shoulders: "I got lucky. I never had a powerful shot, you know." And Pele wasn't

19 Jun 2002

The time Carlos Alberto put the boot into 'overrated' Pele

Because England play Brazil on Friday, (in case you didn't know), we feel it appropriate to retell one of the best, and possibly tallest stories, ever published in this paper.
It revolves around a friend of Standard Sport's who claimed to have sat next to the legendary Brazilian captain from 1970, Carlos Alberto , scorer of arguably the greatest World Cup goal ever, on a flight to Rio.
As you would, the two got chatting about Pele's place in the beautiful game.
Expecting to hear praise heaped on Pele by his former Brazilian teammate - he was the greatest player in the world, etc, etc - imagine our man's surprise when he was told Pele was overrated.
Alberto, our man insists, said that Pele was merely a good player in a superb side and not a patch on Diego Maradona, who inspired a poor Argentine side to become world-beaters. With Rivelino, Tostao, Jairzinho, Alberto and Gerson as team-mates anyone would look special.
Was this a windup? Pele, the man who scored more than 1,000 goals and who was part of World Cupwinning squads in 1958, 1962 and 1970, was surely a legend. As he himself said: "In music, you only have one Frank Sinatra and in football you only have one Pele."
Stunned, our man listened as Alberto, skipper of the 1970 World Cup winners, argued his case.
"What's Pele remembered for? The three magic moments people talk about are all misses."
Alberto reckoned we were doing nothing more than cherishing Pele's noble failures. Think about the three misses, he said.
Miss No 1: the shot from the halfway line. In Brazil's opening match in Mexico on 3 June 1970, Pele noticed the Czech goalkeeper Ivo Viktor off his line. Pele, still in his own half, let fly. His looping shot had Viktor scrambling back towards the goal but the ball drifted inches wide of the post.
"Just a miss," said Alberto.
He could have a point. David Beckham and Nayim both managed to score from that distance.
Miss No 2: Pele's header against England four days later which produced the famous one-handed Gordon Banks save. It was a good save but even Tony Cascarino used to knock them in from that range for Millwall.
Miss No 3: the famous dummy in the semi-final against Uruguay. As Ladislao Mazurkiewicz advanced, Pele deceived the goalkeeper with an outrageous dummy, ran round him and shot wide of the post.
According to our man, Alberto said that this typified Pele's desire to show off. Alberto said that after the game Gerson - known as 'the Parrot' to his team-mates because of his non-stop, blunt-talking - tore a strip off Pele.
Shouting in Portuguese, 60 cigarettes-a-day man Gerson told Pele that his team-mates expected better than a bit of showboating.
"We've been running our arses off to win the game and you try circus tricks instead of just putting the ball in the net," the Parrot screeched. So what about Alberto's own sublime moment - the goal in the 1970 Final?
Brazil were 3-1 up against Italy when Clodoaldo dribbled through to feed Rivelino, who played it on to Jairzinho. The attacker passed square to Pele and, after four deft touches, he rolled a diagonal pass into the path of rightback Alberto.
Even though the ball took a tricky bobble Alberto hit a screamer into the corner of the net. One of the goals of all time. Or was it?
Alberto shrugged his shoulders: "I got lucky. I never had a powerful shot, you know

I'll be on a train to Liverpool by the time you finish this off, you cliffhangering sod.

And we also remember some great Pele goals: the header in the 1970 final, the hat-trick in the 1958 semi while looking like a child, the two in that final, including the one where he takes it past one player on his chest, then knocks it over the head of another, all inside the penalty area, before putting it past the keeper - among the loveliest solo goals I've seen.

The classic shots we see of him are:

1) Lobbing the keeper against Czechoslovakia in 1970. HE MISSED

2) Dummying the keeper against Uruguay in 1970. HE MISSED

3) Heading a cross against England in 1970. SAVED

4) Goal against Italy in 1970. BIG DEAL - KOREANS DO IT WITH GREATER REGULARITY

5) Crying after the 1958 Final - BIG GIRLZ BLOUSE

6) Scoring his 1000th goal (Oh yeah? Lets see the stats. What? What do you mean it's never been verified?) - THE KEEPER LET HIM SCORE COS THE WORLDS PRESS WERE WAITING FOR THE GOAL

7) He is a business associate with some of the most corrupt (only joking FIFA lawyers!) people in sport such as Joao Havelunch and Ricardo Teixei(ca)ra the backhanders from Nike. Unlike the mighty Socrates, who has waded in using his trusty Brazilian sword of truth and decency and a packet of Marlboro.

The evidence is clear - Pele is and was bobbins. The boy Cruyff's yer man. Or me, failing that.

Most players never played him, and most writers never saw him, as he played most of his football in Brazil for Santos. I see comments regarding the 1970s tournament saying the Brazilian team were well prepared, but how did they know?

The insularity of most football writers and players is astounding even today; 35 years ago it was of the order of utter ignorance about it (remember - Jimmy Hill could say 20 years ago that black players didn't like the cold, and he was considered one of the more worldy and cosmopolitan pundits).

As for two left feet, Davor Sukor managed it, and Christian Vieri makes a good stab at it too. Mind you, the stab missed. Arf.

Alberto shrugged his shoulders: "I got lucky. I never had a powerful shot, you know." And Pele wasn't much cop either.

It was not like watching Brazil; but I liked it, a lot.

Highlights:

The view of the ground from on high; the elevatorsmashing tower in the distance; the Big Wheel on the horizon; shades of English popular culture of various kinds; shades of time, even mine

Clarence the Dragon, on the pitch and in the programme

Lincoln's defender, Futcher: a relative of the Futchers of old?

The passion and noise of the Lincoln fans, not least when watching two wee boys fail to beat each other on pens at half time

The way that amid some ineptitude, good things, skilful things, would happen: a triangle of passes would materialize, and all would seem to gasp in wonder, including the makers of the triangle

Crosses from the left

Marauders down the right

The volley with which Town went ahead on 43 mins

The fact that I had predicted the goal on 42 mins

The way both teams hit the bar in the second half, with a free kick and a long shot respectively, and good follow-up saves were made

The loquacious fan nearby who went on about how the linesman (sic) reminded him of Charles Hawtree and wondered what statistics were available, nowadays, to calculate whether it's better to kick it long or pass it from the back

The walk away, up that slope, like Orwell's miners on the slagheap always

The romance of it all I would not too gladly bid farewell.

I realise that Socrates' unusual and cerebral character is at least vaguely known to most, but the specific details on this thread I find remarkable.

Brazil are playing just now. That means there’s no better time to talk about the Brazilian midfielder who moved to Italy so that he could “read Gramsci in the original language and study the history of the workers' movement."

A thread about Sócrates. 🧵 pic.twitter.com/tYqiqxg3OF

— Coll McCail (@MccailColl) November 28, 2022

some of the details in the posts on the thread are kinda shaky, but yes, Socrates was the greatest <3

It's also good to remember John Helm announcing Socrates' goals.

The start of this thread is like a flashback to Comrade xyzzz: the wonder years.

Lol crazy days

Surprisingly good thread. And almost all of it before BRA beat ENG in Japan, when the sausages were sizzling back home.

The evidence is clear - Pele is and was bobbins. The boy Cruyff's yer man. Or me, failing that.

― Nathan Barley, Thursday, 20 June 2002 bookmarkflaglink

Very Shoreditch bloke opinion, this. Sadly held that for a laugh a couple of times.

Though Pele supports Bolsanaro now, I think?

prob

My view of soccer, though I would place less emphasis on Messi.

Me to anyone who will listen pic.twitter.com/xbpR4mwfyV

— Melissa Cox (@mmdotcox) November 30, 2022

Though Pele supports Bolsanaro now, I think?

Pele's always been a bit of a dick. Not a bad footballer though.

Former Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro was attacked by bees yesterday and had to abruptly end a speech he was making to a few hundred supporters. https://t.co/bThIF2uONh

— BrianMier (@BrianMteleSUR) August 17, 2024

bees otm

BREAKING 🇧🇷 Brazil's Federal Police conclude that Jair Bolsonaro had “full knowledge” of the plan to assassinate President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva. Bolsonaro's indictment is expected imminently.

— Progressive International (@ProgIntl) November 21, 2024

Get him killed in jail.

pinefox op quite alarming until you realise he's talking about sports

Thought this thread would be about the movie Brazil and I was going to write about local politics.

So did I.

Oh was just gonna say that. I did search for Terry Gilliam but