people with artistic temperaments - C or D

a relative of mine has your standard issue cliche (well apart from the 'tortured artist' thing) artistic temperament - self absorbed, lerrrrves talking about himself, barely reciprocates in a conversation, like EVER (as in you can ask him a load of questions about what hes doing but barely does he ever bother asking you the same), then hes so moody a lot of the time and just has a general lack of anything resembling social consistency/good manners, all of which makes him a bit punchable, but cos of who hes married to in the family, we have to be nice. even though he deserves a punch on about a monthly basis.

mods let's just go ahead and change the subject line to "aspie thread '09" now

Artists' colonies? Should be more like artists' concentration camps, amirite? A place where they can concentrate.

I wd have thought it was only an "artistic temperament" if you make some art now and then.

you can ask him a load of questions about what hes doing but barely does he ever bother asking you the same

does my head in, but autistic temperament moar like

no need to pathologize this behavior imo, ppl can be jerks without having a neurological or personality disorder

like this person sounds like an egocentric shit but i'm not gonna render armchair diagnosis

that said i tend to prefer hypomanic / bipolar artistic temperments because they can at least be fun until they are scary

Yeah, I know people like this and there's nothing artistic about the ones I know. I rode a bus with one of them this morning - just a regular annoying person with low social skills.

Fundamental Techniques in Handling People
Don't criticize, condemn, or complain.
Give honest and sincere appreciation.
Arouse in the other person an eager want.

[edit] Six Ways to Make People Like You
Become genuinely interested in other people.
Smile.
Remember that a man's Name is to him the sweetest and most important sound in any language.
Be a good listener. Encourage others to talk about themselves.
Talk in the terms of the other man's interest.
Make the other person feel important and do it sincerely

[edit] Twelve Ways to Win People to Your Way of Thinking
Avoid arguments.
Show respect for the other person's opinions. Never tell someone they are wrong.
If you're wrong, admit it quickly and emphatically.
Begin in a friendly way.
Start with questions the other person will answer yes to.
Let the other person do the talking.
Let the other person feel the idea is his/hers.
Try honestly to see things from the other person's point of view.
Sympathize with the other person.
Appeal to noble motives.
Dramatize your ideas.
Throw down a challenge.

[edit] Be a Leader: How to Change People Without Giving Offense or Arousing Resentment
Begin with praise and honest appreciation.
Call attention to other people's mistakes indirectly.
Talk about your own mistakes first.
Ask questions instead of directly giving orders.
Let the other person save face.
Praise every improvement.
Give them a fine reputation to live up to.
Encourage them by making their faults seem easy to correct.
Make the other person happy about doing what you suggest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People

Ironic that you should have chosen that article.

d

not so ironic that you chose to responde to it i guess

"I wd have thought it was only an "artistic temperament" if you make some art now and then."

he does. well not 'art', but hes involved in the arts.

no need to pathologize this behavior imo, ppl can be jerks without having a neurological or personality disorder

like this person sounds like an egocentric shit but i'm not gonna render armchair diagnosis

<3 u elmo

some people are jerks, no need to drag art into it

Some people do art, no need to drag jerks into it.

have we all made the autistic temperaments comment yet?

Art thou a jerk? What a drag!

wow, that doesn't entirely match with my idea of what cliche artistic temperaments are

I guess it depends what art we're talking about

A guy I know started an artist/writer retreat here on Martha's Vineyard, and the first few artist/writer who signed up were Vineyard residents. Just unplug your internet, you bozos, then maybe you won't be so terribly distracted by your frenetic island lifestyle and need to lock yourself in a bed-and-breakfast five miles from your house. Also, if you can afford to take time off work in order to do your crucially important art, what is your problem? Just hire a cook and a house-cleaner and do your stupid art. Or actually, don't. The world is better off without your art output. Go back to the internet.

I am hungry and grumpy.

I want to compile a list of undeniably great artists who were known for being really agreeable and sociable and easy to work or communicate with, just to always have a good comeback ready for these types of folks.

I tend to be a laugher-atter when it comes to the whole "I'm taking a month off of work and am going to move into a shack in West Virginia and write a novel" pipedream, but seriously, a change of scenery can be pretty helpful for certain types of work (as can, sometimes, sticking yourself around other people working on similar things, which maybe helps you remember your purpose and context a little)

NB I have never gone to a writers' colony

I have gone to a writer's colon.

I want to compile a list of undeniably great artists who were known for being really agreeable and sociable and easy to work or communicate with, just to always have a good comeback ready for these types of folks.

first person I thought of was Dennis Wilson, although his self-destructiveness probably hindered his being "easy to work with" I guess... I dunno. This kinda calls for its own thread I think

Grant Morrison also springs to mind

Ok when I was 17 I went to a writers' camp and...

guys...

get ready for an EXTREMELY HILARIOUS JOKE..............

...........
....................

I liked to call it WRITER'S CRAMP

That joke was the best thing I wrote there.

Wasn't Matisse a nice guy? And Henri Rousseau?

I actually get shitloads of artstuff done when we go to Puerto Rico, because I don't get cell service and our apt has no TV or internet.

i'm going to guess the hotel staff doesn't quite appreciate your shitload-artstuff all over the walls.

I'm gonna guess they would hate it if she was painting on walls of a hotel instead of in her own apartment.

oohh - my mistake.

As far as I'm aware James Joyce was pretty agreeable and friendly. Nabokov too, mostly.

i don't think what titchy described is an 'artistic temperament'

ppl who use their artistry to deflect personal criticism or to sanction asshole behaviors are pretty horrible ppl i think we can all agree

who knows what this guy's problem is. But, actual creative people do have fairly unique brains so they do behave differently than most people. Science time and time again has shown this, and psychology has found correlation in whatever crap they do. I'm pretty sure common sense says so, as well.

Of course it doesn't justify people being assholes, but if you haven't noticed, creative people tend to be kinda weird.

ppl who use their artistry to deflect personal criticism or to sanction asshole behaviors are pretty horrible ppl i think we can all agree

some people do this, totally, and "art" is a handy peg to hang it on, what with the cliches and all -- but it also feels like people do it with plenty of other pegs, too, obviously, with all sorts of pegs: they don't care what you think because they're parents and that's the most important thing; they don't care what you think because they were hurt by their families and that's what matters; they don't care what you think because this is business, and they're just helping the bottom line, etc.

I don't know that I think of "creative people" as tending to be weird at all. But again, this might depend on the thing they do and how successful they are with it.

i think jg ballard was apparently a pretty good/nice person wasnt he?

but i dunno, i think it might be easier to be less arseholish once youre recognised as great, and harder to do that when youre frustrated at never quite making it as big as youd like or thought you would. but then that of course doesnt account for all the very famous people who are complete fucks and all the nice people going up the ladder...

The new Harlan Ellison documentary is really fucking good.

a creative type of mind has nothing to do with a "thing" that's done and success. It's just a type of personality and it flows into everything... it's pretty well defined in scientific and psychological circles, and if you've interacted with people like that, you can see things in common with all of them.

hmm did you used to have a different username....

no, not really

titchy I don't mean that success changes people's behavior, I mean that people's behavior changes whether or not they're successful. it seems to me that there are some arts in which it's difficult to become successful without having decent interpersonal skills along the way, and other arts where it's difficult to become successful without having something very out-of-the-ordinary going on with yourself.

The only thing that all the creative people I've interacted with all have in common (besides having interacted with me) is that they create things. Some are self-centered assholes, some are charming self-centered assholes, some are nice people with a strong interest in other people, some are anti-social, some are very social, some put their work ahead of everything else, some don't.

xp nabisco: poor interpersonal skills is generally a detriment to success in a lot of areas of the arts.

a creative type of mind has nothing to do with a "thing" that's done and success. It's just a type of personality and it flows into everything... it's pretty well defined in scientific and psychological circles, and if you've interacted with people like that, you can see things in common with all of them.

sorry to be so blunt but this is complete horseshit

i'm just not very big on the fallacy of the "mad genius"

has anyone made an autistic spectrum joke yet?

im not too big on the excuse of the mad genius either.

What makes you so sure, elmo?

http://thereporterswell.com/db5/00434/thereporterswell.com/_download/ConsidertheSourceCover.jpg

one can get creative with suggest bans as well, so I hear.

0-51 in 2 weeks, I'm calling it.

In fact, so long as I'm looking at this:

family full of artists, private art schools, trendy artsy neighborhoods

all of these, they're not just people with artistic temperaments, they're specific social contexts wherein people might behave certain ways! which is just the farthest thing from "psychology" or "evolution," it's just like ... social context. framing it as a "temperament" is actually kind of creepy, because if you take it to its logical conclusion you'd start claiming stuff like "families full of criminals" and "failing public schools" and "rural working-poor neighborhoods" as being due to some kind of temperamental/evolutionary distinction and not, like, social context, FFS

typed that last big wrong but you know what I mean -- those three examples are like the worst possible examples in the universe!

u just dont understand the artistic temperament

thank god that poor & uneducated people can't be creative

they can be they just need cooler shoes

all of these, they're not just people with artistic temperaments, they're specific social contexts wherein people might behave certain ways!

and in the case of the latter two, they are social contexts that people choose to affiliate with. So you have people going into these contexts wanting to behave/be perceived as a certain type of person.

they're specific social contexts wherein people might behave certain ways! which is just the farthest thing from "psychology" or "evolution," it's just like ... social context.

i thought psychology was the science of behavior

Yeah, maybe I'm a little fascist.

I say my thoughts, I'm not trolling. No need to go nuts with the SB yet ... who knows what I've got in store

http://images.clipartof.com/small/28144-Clipart-Illustration-Of-A-Background-Of-Yellow-And-White-Question-Marks-Over-Orange.jpg

yah id be pretty disappointed if we never find out what kind of food u ordered

sesame chicken with brown rice, n*gga

people behaving certain ways in certain contexts=it's not evolution but ii certainly is something, say, a psychologist would study

okay maybe not the farthest thing but like social-context behavior is way different from innate or fundamental psychology or personality makeup

The context idea is pretty good, I think. Like an upbringing that values intelligence and inner values may encourage a certain way of acting, while more physical ones others.

xp Que: which is different from the issue of "innate personality traits"

innate personality traits + personality makeup are what fuel our social context behavior. you can't have one without the other.

umm sure, Que, but acting like those things aren't discernible from one another is just weird -- to claim the way people act in "artsy neighborhoods" is indicative of the innate temperament of artists, and not possibly better read as part of the social context of those neighborhoods, is rather a stretch

i agree with you on the neighborhood thing. i disagree with your use of the idea that "specific social contexts wherin people might be behaving in certain ways" has nothing to do with psychology.

and i'm with you on the word "temperament" -- not the best word for this discussion

haha the other humanities are gonna be MAD at you

no one's saying it has nothing to do with psychology, que, just that social behavior isn't solely determined by innate personality traits FFS.

actually, sarahel, nabisco is the one who said it had nothing to do with psychology.

all of these, they're not just people with artistic temperaments, they're specific social contexts wherein people might behave certain ways! which is just the farthest thing from "psychology" or "evolution," it's just like ... social context.

What a disaster for nabisco!

it's a good thing I didn't later post this:

okay maybe not the farthest thing but like social-context behavior is way different from innate or fundamental psychology or personality makeup

cause then this would seem a bit silly

I'm now curious whether burt_stanton's disgusting ass partner was indicative of an artistic temperament.

i don't think it's way different though. like i already said, the one informs the other.

and yes, i think we wall miss burt

spectrum what do you think of camille paglia?

the internet is the greatest work of art ever therefore we are all artists

spectrum what do you think of camille paglia?

beat me to it

I went to art school. There were a variety of people there—on-time bill-payers, deadbeats, straightlaced folks and scandalous sluts. Why is this even a debate?

But, was it art?

Now THAT'S the real debate.

spectrum what do you think of camille paglia?

― goole, Thursday, 23 July 2009 22:43 (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

beat me to it

― girlish in the worst sense of that term (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 23 July 2009 22:45 (Yesterday) Bookmark

sexual personae

The new Harlan Ellison documentary is really fucking good.

Can you post a youtube link like this without it embedding the video? Because the playlist is the thing.

Oh good.

The end of the second video had me laughing my ass off. I've never seen a woman throw herself as someone like that, on television or anywhere else. Harlan was the kind of guy who fucked you and then decided if he felt like some dinner or not.

I think he's vastly overrated as a writer (esp by himself) but there's no denying he's a funny, interesting guy

I'd have him over for dinner. I'd brag like hell about it later, too, even if he hated the food.

The interview about the stupid video game is both the best and the worst, and also the best. He's cringeworthy when he brags about how hard he hits hits type writer keys, but then he says, "Art should always be harder. You should pull it out with some pain. It should cost you something to produce art. Otherwise, it ain't art. It's mediocrity."

Now how can my "artistic" temperament argue with that?

does Ernie no longer love Bert?

that seems like the kind of statement you could make about nearly anything you cared about -- romance, fitness, legislation, anything

Well... yes. That doesn't make it banal and obvious.

kind of a little imo

Not in THIS economy, etc

The #1 thing I don't get about Ellison is how he's filled with a firey passion for humanity only when it suits his purpose. Which would make him a bloviating assmunch ordinarily, but then you read his best stuff, and no, all that really is there. He's good. It's hard to square the kind of petty anger he has always displayed in person with the kind of energizing, righteous anger he can have on the page.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZzzKDytK1o

If you have no idea of the value of a dollar, and you borrow 24 million of them, dud.

hey titchy, out of curiosity, what sort of girl is attracted to a guy with the artistic temperament you described in your first post.