what is the deal with these American "terrorists" from North Carolina

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/07/28/north.carolina.terrorism.charges/index.html

says the main dude is 39 and fought the Soviets in Afghanistan (uh is that really possible...? He was a US citizen fighting in a foreign war where the US didn't have troops stationed...? (Dude would've been 18 when the Soviets left Afghanistan in '88!)

this story raises a lot of wtf questions

No kidding. Seriously weird shit.

And here I thought this was about spring of 1861.

"The F.B.I. watched Daniel Patrick Boyd for three years as he stockpiled rifles and revolvers, trained accomplices including his two sons, and planned to commit terrorist attacks overseas, before agents arrested the group in coordinated raids on Monday afternoon, according to a federal indictment filed in the case."

Just wanted to make sure what they were doing was REALLY illegal.

Well, it's better than picking people up on minor charges or a weak case.

Yeah yeah I know it just seems like a lot of illegality going there.

makes you wonder what the trigger was for the arrest, like were they about to execute a plan or something... or is this (more likely) just some other really half-assed case a la Zacarias Moussaoui...

Oh no! They planned "violent jihad"! That's, like, the worst kind, right?

mello jihad

melloW

(Yeah, I do sometimes wonder with things like this -- they tend to seem pretty confident that they can gauge when any real action's going to be taken, and let people spill information and rack up charges in the meantime, but I wonder if that confidence has ever backfired or been tested.)

I wouldn't be at all surprise if a lot of this case is "guilt by association" sorta stuff

http://charlotte.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/2009/ce072709.htm

during the period from 1989 through 1992, Daniel Boyd traveled to Pakistan and Afghanistan where he received military-style training in terrorist training camps for the purpose of engaging in violent jihad. Following this training, he allegedly fought in Afghanistan.

okay, see, this does not make any fucking sense. The Soviets were out by February'89, so who was he fighting in Afghanistan...?

they were humoring him

The way violent jihad is used in that indictment is making me crack up.

For the Taliban against various warlords? The Taliban didn't really take over most of the country till '96 or thereabouts, iIrc.

"Hey baby come over to my place later and we'll engage in some violent jihad. Hows that sound?"

"I tried to wage violent jihad in Israel, but it was just so gosh darn hard that I gave up and went back to Charleston."

The Soviet Union withdrew its troops in February 1989, but continued to aid the government, led by Mohammed Najibullah. Massive amounts of aid from the CIA and Saudi Arabia to the mujahideen also continued.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Afghanistan

Among other acts, the indictment alleges that Daniel Boyd traveled to Gaza in March 2006 and attempted to enter Palestine in order to introduce his son to individuals who also believed that violent jihad was a personal religious obligation.

This sentence makes me suspect that this whole indictment is probably bullshit.

At least it sounds like the FBI managed to arrest them without it turning into another Waco.

Jihad bascially means struggle and in Islam there are several different types of jihad so the specificity of 'violent jihad' (Jihad as-sayf) doesn't sound so risible to me.

I think stating specifically what actions they were attempting would probably be less risible. But I'm not offended. Like I said it just sounds funny.

half-assed jihad didn't have the right ring to it

Just some good old boys from Carolina playin' with guns.

"Some defendants also allegedly radicalized others to believe that violent jihad was a personal religious obligation."

Haha allegedly.

mello jihad

― girlish in the worst sense of that term (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, July 28, 2009 4:30 PM Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

melloW

― girlish in the worst sense of that term (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, July 28, 2009 4:30 PM Bookmark

Actually, this being Carolina, you were right the first time.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_rvtm2KP6hCg/Rl277p0VlMI/AAAAAAAAAUo/MbPjBjnozWs/s320/Mello+Yello.jpeg

"Yeah I mean that's what Dale over there thinks, but the rest of us aren't sure so let's just put in the press release with allegedly that way if we can't indict them for it we can so woah woah we said ALLEGEDLY guys."

Actually, going back to what we were talking about upthread: judging by the press release, it's surprising that over the course of three years, the only concrete non-conspiracy non-intent-based charges are

- selling a firearm to a convicted felon
- receiving a firearm through interstate commerce
- making false statements in a terrorism investigation

(I am not counting "possession of a firearm in furtherance of a crime of violence" since the crime here is intent/conspiracy/abstract stuff)

One of them probably cut off a cop's brother's car once, so this, finally, is payback.

Umm, I dunno, dude, anyone with a weapons stockpile, Afghan combat experience, the capacity for world travel, and extremist views is not exactly someone I'm going to think of as a harmless stooge or victim

Ahem allegedly, nabisco.

since 9/11 I've often thought that Al Qaeda's ultimate goal of overthrowing the US (or whatever) was laughably impossible - primarily because there is no homegrown population of disaffected muslims in the US. There's just no community that is ripe for Bin Laden's brand of "radicalization" - we don't have large, disaffected Muslim immigrant communities the way that Europe does. The history of Islam and muslims in this country is fundamentally different from Europe, so the only way Al Qaeda cells can operate effectively in the US is if they are a) imported from somewhere else or b) recruited from the marginal population of losers and misfits who are borderline crazy and completely alienated from American society (ie, the shoe bomber, or the American Taliban - these guys were not battle-tested, reliable, combat-ready ground troops. They were mentally unstable and largely ineffectual outcasts).

This scenario seems to challenge that to some extent... ie, why would a bunch of white boys from SC become radicalized Muslims? Its kinda inexplicable.

I mean it seems more likely that the radicalization path for southern white boys is yr typical KKK/white supremacist/right wing militia route

It's because of Obama's birth certificate, Shakey. It all comes back to that.

Allegedly, yes -- just saying if those are the basic allegations present thus far (and those are the factual/provable parts, mostly, not the judgment-based ones), "probably cut off a cop's brother" strikes me as taking things a bit lightly.

"why would a bunch of white boys from SC become radicalized Muslims?"

Isn;t the one that fought in Afghanistan the only white one?

Oh wait his kids.

a little flashback action, drudge style:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/28/AR2009072801534.html

(Yeah, I do sometimes wonder with things like this -- they tend to seem pretty confident that they can gauge when any real action's going to be taken, and let people spill information and rack up charges in the meantime, but I wonder if that confidence has ever backfired or been tested.)

They're confident because the government usually has someone on the inside pivotal in orchestrating the whole thing. Conspiracy insanity? Maybe. But I believe it. Look at those folks thy arrested in NY not long ago. As it turned out, they were being egged on by the Feds!

"She calls him "Mr. Athlete" because he played defensive lineman and running back on a state champion football team, class of 1986."

he graduated HS at age 16?

Yes, they usually only let people sit like that when they've got an inside line organizing or collecting information -- I was mostly just saying I'm impressed (or curious?) about the ability to keep things from ever slipping out a little. The more I think about this, though, I think things do occasionally slip on investigations like this, and the information is just managed in a way that doesn't cast it as a mistake. (I can recall seeing agents talk about all kinds of concrete harmful crime they've allowed to take place while putting together some larger prosecution.)

Totally agree, nabisco. I mean, hell, there are more than a few investigate journalists who have have put forward some pretty substantive arguments about Oklahoma City and how Feds allowed it to spiral out of control.

whoah Shasta's link only makes this even more WTF

how much of an ingrate do you have to be to want to commit terrorist acts against the country that saved you from getting your arms chopped off

(not to mention the country you grew up in etc. but still...)

But were they planning on committing terrorists acts against the US? The indictments make it sound like most of their actions were aimed overseas, don't they?

Actually scratch that most and make that all of their actions.

but wait, it gets weirder!

maybe they were part of "crimson jihad"

don't really understand the whole "lure the family out of their house" thing

that is, admittedly, if true, kind of a dick way to lure someone out of a house

man this is weird. "I love jihad!" uhh

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2009/08/05/meserve.nc.terror.cnn

"Terroristism is just swell"