It can't possibly be legal for a landlord to do and end of lease walkthru without the tenant present

can it?

where are the paninis

don't know if it's legal but it's happened to me. got fuckin screwed too, claimed we owed $1000 for cleaning/repair

its (well at least here in MN) completely legal. in fact it pretty much is the only thing that ever happens

There's a bunch of unrepaired damage (that I reported to them, due to a leak upstairs) and I've got their notes promising to repair it. I also took my own photos of the whole place, suspecting some BS like this.

I would look on the bright side of this: you have a reasonably good opportunity to get on the People's Court, meet Marilyn Milian, and be totally in the right

this is the only way it's ever happened in my experience

ie i don't know anyone who's been present for their end of lease assessment

yeah I think it's normal, though I do think people have some limited (and very rarely asserted) right to be present? as in, if you asked to be there, it's not like they could bar you?

i was present at the end of my last one a few months ago.

yeah i was asked to be present @ the one for my house in LA

I've never been at one, but have never remotely asked, which I assume is common.

My last Chicago landlord emailed me complaining about him and his wife having to do additional cleaning, which I found bizarre: if you're taking money out of my deposit for it, then take enough to hire someone and spare me the whining!

xp What happened to Judge Wapner?

Ha my last landlord had her AND her husband (and the property owner) call, and write letters, saying they were upset that they had to hire a cleaning service for an hour.

(Same one who when I told I was moving bcz we were paying too much & weren't near campus/had no car, she suggested we buy an electric car.)

You should live somewhere like Chicago, where there are all kinds of really excellent tenant's rights laws. I want to say (off the top of my head) that it's illegal for a landlord to enter the premises at all unless it's an emergency or they've given something like three days prior notice (possibly even specifically in writing). I love these laws like I can't even tell you.

P.S. Landlords are scum.

'Should' is such a beautiful word.

Somehow I doubt Texas is at the forefront of this kind of consumer protection issue.

I had a nice landlady when I lived in SF -- I was the one on the lease, and when we moved out, I had thought I'd gotten all the keys from my roommates. But apparently, one of my roommates had two sets, and she and a friend went into the apartment after we'd all moved out, and they tracked mud all over the place and smoked weed. The landlady called me, saying she was going to stop payment on the security deposit check she'd just sent out ... which would have sucked big time because at the time I was unemployed. I explained the situation - that I thought I'd gotten all the keys back, and she didn't do it.

It's legal in WA - all a landlord is required to provide you is a written checklist of noted damage/deficiencies on move-in, not even do an initial walkthrough with you. On move-out, they have 14 days to send your refund and written notice of why they are withholding any of your deposit. And they can't deduct for normal wear and tear.

I'm pretty thorough about cleaning when we've moved out, but one place really stretched it and charged me $300 for cleaning inside the kitchen cabinets, the top of the fridge, and two windowsills. It infuriated me enough to go after them and file official complaints and all that. Satisfying in a way to win back $250, but cost time etc.

Search for your state + tenant rights - might turn up whatever statutes are on the books.

xp What happened to Judge Wapner?

last seen on that show around the time Snow's "Informer" and Meatloaf's "I'd Do Anything for Love (But I Won't Do That)" were on the Billboard charts

I haven't had a TV that gets channels since 1997.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Wapner

do you really want an 80-year-old judge

to play doubles tennis and bridge with, sure

Lemme catch you up, then! The main cast of Seinfeld got thrown in jail, Ross and Rachel got together at the end, and Ed Koch's run as the People's Court judge didn't go all that well

Uh oh, ten minutes to Wapner.

who are ross and rachel?

Who ended up shooting J.R.?

the previous tenants of my apartment were horribly filthy, didn't own a vacuum cleaner, and practiced a lot of safe sex based on the huge number of condom wrappers i found in the baseboard heaters in the bedroom -- afaik my landlords (on-site) never withheld a dime of their deposit, despite the fact they were cleaning our apartment furiously the day we moved in... having a somewhat casual relationship with landlords who rent out to supplement their income might have drawbacks for some, but it probably beats the he'll out of dealing with shitty property-management types

The Simpsons are still doing okay, except for Maude Flanders; Dr. Quinn hooked up with some guy; Dwayne and Whitley got married; Ally McBeal dated Robert Downey Jr for a while but then he had some drug issues; Buffy wound up closing the hellmouth and turning all the potential slayers into real ones; Frasier and his dad started getting along better; Sabrina went to college and studied journalism ... what else

Ally McBeal was the one with the dancing baby, right?

> shitty property-management types

Yeah, that's these guys all over.

Sabrina MARRIED HARVEY at the last minute of the last episode – this is V IMPORTANT news.

I think the last time I regularly watched tv, the Olsen Twins were toddlers.

They're not any more, fwiw

They are still twins tho.

xp nabisco: yeah, I know that. If they were, that line in the Wire where Herc wants to do them would be some shameless shit.

heh - just faxed my property "manger" another official request to fix the front damned door. i fucking loath this man.

xposts! yikes

My landlord has just wandered into the flat at times of his choosing with no notice in the past. He was more bumbling than malicious though, and apologised massively when I kicked off.

"manager"

xp stet: my landlord is the same way. Once he did this while I was asleep in bed.

stet you DIED?

(my family always casually referred to someone dying by saying they 'kicked off')

I mean I can see why apologies were overdue if his bumbling resulted in manslaughter!

yeah, I was asleep that last time he did it. Woke up to loads of burly men in the living room poking holes in the ceiling and saying "who needs all these fuckin' books, but?"

xp i did nearly have a fit, ha. he'd have been sorrier THEN.

I once had the ceiling fall into my bathtub on a Thursday night, and by Saturday, I was getting pretty pissed at the lack of attention it was being given (I was also getting smelly.)

I don't want to say that I was berating him, but I was letting the super know how I felt about the situation and he kinda paused and everything and then said, "Well, if you want, you can come over and take your shower here at my place."

I got a hotel room and wrote my rent check out for $90 less at the end of the month. The ceiling was fixed by the time I got home Monday afternoon.

an old chicago landlord, who was decrepit then and is dead now (not my doing, i promise), would routinely dock $100 off every tenant's security deposit for "cleanout," regardless of the state of the apartment. i left my place spotless. after i called to complain (i was out of the country), he arbitrarily docked the deduction down to $60, and after that he had his secretaries hang up on me. if i had been in town i would have put up a fight, on principle, but it just wasn't possible.

i'd like to think he's turning over and over in hell now for bilking tenants for 50 years.

my current building has gone through three owners in two years! none of them terrible. actually, the current owners (a retired couple) seem competent and nice.

i should rob his grave for $60 in marble.

misread this as "It can't possibly be legal for a landlord to do and end of lease walkthru without the tenant peasant"

seriously it boils my blood that that guy (leonard guzell was the name) basically engaged in petty theft from his tenants (mostly working-class families) for 50 years. small amounts of money, but it adds up.

but i guess this is standard landlord BS.

" petty theft from his tenants "

job description, IMO

I am a property manager for a couple of apartment complexes in TX and in our lease it states to contact the owner's representative to schedule an appointment to do an end of lease walk thru. The tenants are also required to give a months notice that they will be vacating the dwelling; this is usually the only way that I know they are empty (people usually do not turn their keys in). If the tenant does not contact me then yes I will do the walk thru alone. In the lease that we have there is a part that says "Special Provisions". In this paragraph I am told by the owners to add "Tenant will be charged for carpet shampoo upon move out." Meaning however much the carpet shampoo costs it will be automatically taken out of their deposit.

i don't know anything about TX landlord/tenant law but how can you do that? carpet dirt has to be within ordinary wear and tear doesn't it?

You would think so right? I don't know how they get away with it but they do... I guess their point is that it was shampooed before the new tenant moves in so leave it how you left it... But they don't give the tenant a chance to shampoo it. A couple of the complexes have a lot of "skips" who trash the dwellings and when they figure out they can't pay the rent they "skip". Maybe they do it because of that. Also out of all the move outs that I have done there has only been two where I wanted to give the whole deposit back to the person... Everyone else has left their apartment a disaster.

Wow rental laws seem all over the place lax in the US.

In Victoria it is strictly, strictly verboten for a landlord or agent to enter a rental property without warning (I think theres an "except in emergencies" clause perhaps). They must give notice in writing, I think its at least 48 hours.

End of lease inspections are usually done without us there, but thats because you've moved on by then. What I would NOT expect is them going thru and doing one before we'd finished moving out, and judging the place on uncleaned, boxes o' chaos mess. But that would be absurd anyway. Let us leave first, dipshits!

Cranky at rental agents at present. My last one was useless - in the 12 months we had them they never returned multiple calls or emails, even when in one case it was an urgent request about the massive bouganvillea vine that was starting to damage the fence, gutters and neighbours tree. We ended up paying to have it cut back ourselves.

If we dont get all our bond back I'll be pissed off.

I just pretty much assume, at this point, that no matter what condition the apartment gets left in - it'll be a $100-200 "cleaning fee". At least this is what I learned from 8 years in the Chicago area renting apartments.

First apartment after college: Had a nice week-long overlap between leases, so I spent a full day and a half scrubbing the apartment from top to bottom. Everything from taking apart the fridge to clean every nook and cranny to renting a carpet cleaner and everything in between. 6 weeks later get the deposit back minus $100 for "cleaning fee". Called to argue this and was faxed a list of really, really vague items that would be pretty damn difficult for me to prove without extreme photo documentation of a place I no longer had access to.

Second apartment: Scrubbed clean, not quite nearly as hard as the previous one, but I felt I did a pretty good job when all was said and done. Two months later, $150 subtracted from the deposit for "cleaning". A few phone calls, same bullshit vague reasoning.

Third apartment: Due to a whole lot of bad timing, I had very little time to clean when moving and did pretty much nothing beyond sweeping and vacuuming. $75 "cleaning fee" gone from the deposit.

After that, I figure fuck it, why bust my ass? I clean what I'm able to clean and don't really sweat it. But ultimately, yeah, very glad I'm now a homeowner.

I just pretty much assume, at this point, that no matter what condition the apartment gets left in - it'll be a $100-200 "cleaning fee". At least this is what I learned from 8 years in the Chicago area renting apartments.

Yeah, this seems about right. It's evil isn't it? One thing I particular regret is actually spending a day or two cleaning my apartments thoroughly as I moved out -- if I was going to be charged for so-called "trashout" (!!), I wouldn't have bothered.

The solution to this, which many friends have tried, is simply to not pay your final month of rent. I tried doing this exactly once, in Iowa, and the landlord's agent called me saying "he means business" and noting that the landlord was a lawyer who also ran a business whose job it was to garnish the wages of people who were delinquent on credit card bills, mortgages, etc. So I got scared and paid.

The solution to this, which many friends have tried, is simply to not pay your final month of rent.

lolz holy christ I'm SO glad I'm no longer an apartment manager

I always explained to applicants that they prepaid their apt. cleaning, so they didn't have to deal with it when they moved.

It's hilarious how 20 year olds can rationalize withholding rent money just because they accidently cleaned a bathroom sink.

Unfortunately witholding last month rent as bond isnt legal in my state :( and they can also make it a lease clause that you have to have the carpet professionally steam cleaned - and show a recepit.

I usually do this, but didnt this time round cause fuck it, I've had to spend 1000's of dollars 2 times in 12 months cause of landlords who cant commit to keeping homes for rent so fuck them, I just foam sprayed and vaucuumed, and said I didnt have a reciept.

Still dunno if I'll get all the bond back yet. They'll be selling the place, so why does it matter? He'll replace all the floors and fittings anyway.

actually that option is somewhat rational if you have reason to believe that your landlord will simply steal a significant portion of your security deposit.

...and now they've changed the locks before my lease term date, and still haven't contacted me about a walk through, despite the fact I've been calling them all week. CLASSY

i've always had to pay last month along with deposit when I've moved in.

I think that most leases (or ORDINANCES) require that the landlord give you notice, like let you know 24 or 48 hours in advance if they are coming through or showing an apartment. My last landlord did not do this, she showed up at the door as I was cleaning a filthy carpet, packing boxes and nursing a dying cat (I'm sure the prospective renter was really sold on the apartment after seeing a dying cat in a box).

Also IME they can't do an evaluation until your lease is up. If your apartment needs repairs but you are still the leaseholder, you cannot be held responsible for damage as long as you have had time and responsibility for repairs. i.e. they can't dock you for a dirty carpet or kitchen if you still have a day or two to address the matter. Any legitimate lease should make this clear.

I think it is absolutely ridiculous to show an apartment while the current tenant is still living there. I do not show a dwelling until the apartment is completely ready to be leased; therefore none of my prospective tenants have ever seen an apartment that has not had the repairs, cleaning or carpet shampoo completed. Oh and breaking your lease is probably the worst thing you could do when it comes to apartments in TX SO don't skip last months rent they will charge you for A. a reletting fee (which is half of your rent) and B. rent until a new tenant moves in. DON'T DO IT! If you think your landlord will keep you deposit make it so where he can't: make sure you give a 30 day written notice clean the crap out of your apartment change your own drip pans (cheaper that way) and turn in your keys the day that you vacate the apartment.

I mailed them today, since they're refusing to meet with me.

certified mail, I should add.