Yippie Ki Yay! It's the Die Hard poll

Between 1 and 3 for me. Rickman shades Irons in the evil German comedy terrorist stakes, but 3 has prime Samuel L Jackson by way of compensation.

Is there a halfway convincing argument to be made for anything other than the original?

recently saw both 1 and 2 and thought about doing this. it's SO the first one btw. xp

Wow. Was totally thinking about starting this poll yesterday. Gotta be the original I think.

never had to think less about a poll.

a copy/sequel that's as good as the original still loses out for being a copy/sequel

has to be 1, almost at a snap. But 3 is next best and still a cool film.

would be curious about a poll of just 2-4, though

1-3 equally good and I can't really choose but if y'all are gonna be prissy about this shit I'm voting 3 for its awesome kinetic cinematography plus the whole fake bomb sequence.

it's not just sam jackson, the whole supporting cast of new yorkers in 3 is A+

Big Johnson: Just like fuckin' Saigon, hey, Slick?
Little Johnson: I was in junior high, dickhead.

The kid-friendly "Hey! Forget you, man! My wife's on one of the planes they're messin' with, and that puts me on the playing field!" (in what is obviously not Bruce Willis' voice) is one of my favorite lines in any movie ever.

The first one, obviously, but Die Hard 2: Die Harder is good enough to survive its batshit plot (more batshit than the others). Imagine if Kathryn Bigelow had directed it. Yum.

die hard 2 is vastly underrated, that shit is an awesomely sadistic action machine. die hard 3 i always thought was ok but not quite up to par. die hard 4 is a waste.

the first one is the only decent answer though.

Die Hard 2 (and 3, and 4) lack Hans Gruber, and therefore will always be far inferior to the original.

http://www.brianmicklethwait.com/images/uploads/HansGruberDeath.jpg

I actually thought Die Hard 4 wasn't that bad ... about on par with the 2nd one, which wasn't as good as 1 or 3.

The extreme batshitness of the plot is the best thing about 2.

I guess I should vote for Die Harder for patriotic reasons, it being directed by the only Finn ever to make it big in Hollywood. He even put "Finlandia" by Sibelius into it!

How this could be any but 1 baffles me - 3 has tons of charm and I love its unwieldy overplotted nature, but the original film is one of those rare moments where a genre is invented, defined, and completed in a single movie. There's not one frame out of place in that thing, nor one non-quotable line of dialogue. I love stuff like the cowboy German going "I got fifty bucks riding on them assholes!", and basically everything Reginald VelJohnson says to try and keep Bruce Willis motivated. Even the way he says "Roy" is just perfect. Great fucking movie.

Yeah, I don't see how it could be anything but 1 either.

did we do an Alan Rickman poll btw?

3 is the dumbest movies ever... you must complete a series of stunts and pranks... and you must acquire a SIDEKICK

ahem one of the dumbest

would be curious about a poll of just 2-4, though

― da croupier, Tuesday, August 4, 2009 12:15 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

QFT

Blueski if there hasn't been a Rickman poll you should do one.

in a poll with just die harder, die harder would lose

http://www.joeclipart.com/blog/images/2006/12/20061220machinegun.jpg

Kind of amazing how closely it hews to the source novel, with one or two exceptions, but makes it a zillion times better.

die hard is based on a NOVEL?

is it called dying hard

"try harder"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_Lasts_Forever_(1979_novel)

Same author and main character as the Frank Sinatra vehicle "The Detective." Can you imagine Sinatra in "Die Hard?"

The film follows its source material closely. Some of its memorable scenes, characters, and dialogue are taken directly from the novel. The story was altered to be a stand-alone film with no connections to Thorp's novel The Detective. Other changes included the older hero of the novel becoming younger, his named changed from Joe Leland to John McClane, his daughter becoming his wife (maiden name "Gennero," different from the book's spelling of "Gennaro"), and the American Klaxon Oil Corporation becoming the Japanese Nakatomi Corporation.

Other minor changes include: VP of Sales Rivers became Mr. Takagi; Henry Ellis, Al Powell, and Dwayne Robinson were essentially the same, but the FBI agents Johnson and Johnson were added; and the primary antagonist Anton "Little Tony" Gruber became Hans Gruber, while Karl's brother Hans was renamed Tony.

The novel's tone is darker and more serious than the film's, and the political fighters of the novel became thieves in the film.

lol one of my favorite scenes is when gruber is negotiating about political prisoners and the other dude looks at him like, "wtf?" and he's like, "oh i read about them in newsweek" or whatever

rumour has it arafat buys his there. i have two myself.

The kid-friendly "Hey! Forget you, man! My wife's on one of the planes they're messin' with, and that puts me on the playing field!" (in what is obviously not Bruce Willis' voice) is one of my favorite lines in any movie ever.

Die Hard 3 was on TV a couple of years back and I was wondering how they were going to play the Harlem scene. I pretty much died when they did the reveal and his placard said "I HATE EVERYONE"

"ugly greasy maggot farmers" on UTV (replete with wonderfully camp and broad norn irish accent) in heartbreak ridge ftw there.

it's a damn shame that a dude like mctiernan was making shit like rollerball and basic recently, the guy is simply a great action director.

mctiernan poll's been done, right?

^ just make it Die Hard v Predator, or just Die Hard

i didn't realise he did Medicine Man. dude loves his jungle.

hunt for red october is slept on imo

Shouldn't have lied to the FBI though

mctiernan did as much shit as good stuff his whole career. now he's in jail. you do the math.

Does that mean we can get Michael Bay sent to the gas chamber?

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Every time I open this thread and see the picture at the top I think of popular ILX poster REDACTED

All 4 are varying degrees of good fun, and none are bad, but the first one is SO lean, SO tight, SO well done, that it walks this poll for me.

#1 b/c (A) best action film EVER by a generous margin; (B) my favorite Xmas movie

DH2: it's great but this gunfight in the baggage area is crazy ott for 15 mins in. the two guys were retarded to pull a gun him: the bad guys in DH1 would have just faked him out.

great moments in cinema:

when al leong is waiting to ambush the SWAT team in the lobby and looks around cautiously and then steals a candy bar from the display case.

otm

http://starsmedia.ign.com/stars/image/article/835/835131/asian-terrorist_01_1195009531_640w.jpg

we're gonna need some new FBI guys

otm, also al leong owns

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73yc0S6xvQQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxR7RYuF2fU

rewatched the first Die Hard on Sunday, what a badass movie

every christmas.

welcome to the party pal

oh thank you youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD94dVu8lqQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGfmfPYiO1w

Jeremy Irons coasting it until:

Your brother was an asshole.
Eh? Ha. Hahaha. He WAS an asshole! You got his number!

w/ sam phillips as his moll! i haven't seen 3 in a very long time but i seem to recall irons having this casual almost suave langour initially w/ signs of giddiness as the plan started to come to fruition giving away to genuine annoyance at the persistance of john mcclane. saw one a few weeks ago (maybe when djp saw it?), such a fucking machine, i'd forgotten just how many assholes are in that movie.

Would be a good poll, actually!

atherton would take it easy. in terms of body of work atherton vs paul gleason would be something though.

oh no way dude, hart bochner all the way!

really though, DHWAV is a pelham 123 for the '90s.

Watching this yet again (roommate's never seen it!) and I'm once again struck by the incredible economy of means. Over on the "Die Hard v. Hard Boiled" thread, Josh In Chicago says:

Check out all the beats in the first ten minutes of "Die Hard" alone that establish who John McClane is, culminating in him riding the limo with Argyle ... in the passenger seat. (...) And damn is it efficient. Watching it with an eye on the clock is an education. Characters are all introduced, action in motion precisely 20 minutes in.

And that's so true! And also stuff like - - - I mean, the whole montage of the bad guys getting their plan in motion, cutting wires, killing the security guards... there's almost no dialogue, which is great, because on the first watch you're sort of in the dark as to what they're doing, although you can get by just reading it as "these are a really well-oiled team of bad guys, executing..whatever their plan is." And then on subsequent viewings you don't have to sit through any tedious exposition. The exact nature of their scheme unfolds gradually in the course of the movie. Meanwhile, since there would have to be some times that the bad guys discuss logistics, but the film doesn't want to let you in on it, they just...speak German for those occasions only.

The only thing that's not 100% perfect is the TV reporter subplot, which is just so annoying. It's a lot of screen time to get us to "Hans finds out the connection between Holly and John," which could have been accomplished lots of other ways. I guess maybe they were thinking they just had to come up with something to cut away from Nakatomi from time to time, to avoid having things get too claustrophobic and visually samey. But urrrrgh.

Watched Die Hard last night again again again... always brilliant.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Xq8cJYRhJH8/TRC2oGhtfXI/AAAAAAAABa8/r7F1yaiAuws/s1600/EllisSML.jpg

I'm seeing a line of christmas cards

hans. bubby.

<3

http://www.vulture.com/2013/07/die-hard-scene-stealers-tidbits.html

10 Die Hard Tidbits We Learned From Its Biggest Scene-Stealers

By Steve Marsh

Yippee-ki-yay, motherfuckers! Twinkies are back! But the relaunch of a creme-filled snack-cake brand isn't the only reason Vulture is so stoked at the moment. We're also celebrating Die Hard, which walked over the broken glass of our collective imaginations when it arrived in theaters 25 years ago this week. The 1988 action movie provided a watershed genre moment, and in the process, ratcheted up the careers of Bruce Willis and Alan Rickman. But one of Die Hard's best aspects is that it features many memorable performances by lesser-known scene-stealers, such as Robert Davi (badass FBI Special Agent "Big" Johnson), Reginald VelJohnson (level-headed LAPD desk sergeant Al Powell), and Clarence Gilyard Jr. (cocky tech whiz Theo). Vulture asked those and other stand-out Die Hard supporting players to weigh in on the movie a quarter century later. Here are ten insights we took away from those conversations.

1. Alan Rickman liked Road House.

Dennis Hayden (who played Eddie, the thug with a famous resemblance singer Huey Lewis): Alan was really cool. He was a big fan of mine. Joel brought the Roadhouse script around the set and kept passing it around. So Rickman kept pushing me on Joel, “Joel, this guy should do Roadhouse.” Then Joel said, “Yeah, he should do Roadhouse.” So they brought Patrick Swayze out to the set to meet me. And Swayze’s like a short guy, like real short compared to me — I’m six-foot-four or whatever, and he’s five-foot-eight. And I’m trying to stay away from him so we don’t stand next to one another, so I reach way out to shake hands. And then they brought us both in to meet with the director and the director took a look at me and a look at him, and says, “This isn’t going to work.”

2. Even the terrorist who looks like Huey Lewis thinks he looks like Huey Lewis — only taller.

Hayden: I met Huey once. I was singing on a Tanya Tucker album, and the girls kept coming up to me going, “Hey, man, there’s a guy over in Studio B who looks just like you!” I had long hair and a beard at the time. So I was down in the bathroom, and this guy comes walking in as I’m walking out, and I go, “Jesus Christ, this fuckin' guy looks just like me!” Like a mini version of me — he’s not very tall, you know.

3. Confirmed by an actual German speaker: Alan Rickman's German accent passes muster.

Hans Barringer (long-haired baddie Fritz): I would say Alan was extremely good. He controlled his German accent as a well-speaking English actor would have. He was not like a TV actor trying to make a German accent and coming off like Arnold Schwarzenegger — which is not a German accent!

4. And speaking of Arnold ...

Davi: The first time I saw the film after it was completed was with Arnold Schwarzenegger. Arnold and I were very close friends because we had done Raw Deal. So, we're watching the movie, and Arnold is absolutely enthralled. I mean, he's blown away by it. And now I come on the screen, saying, "Who's in charge?" and [Deputy Police Chief Dwayne T. Robinson says], "I am," and I go, "Not anymore." And Arnold looks over and goes [in Arnold voice], "I can't believe it, man! You look fantastic! Fucking great here!" Because it looks like this guy is going to come in and save the day. Big Johnson comes in to save the day — that's the first thing you get. This presence comes in, the shit is hitting the fan, nobody is confident, and now you’ve got a guy who you think can come in and clean up. And little by little, he doesn’t. And Arnold kept going, “I can’t believe what you did now here, you idiot. You were heroic! And now you’ve turned into an idiot! I can’t believe it here! What happened to you? What happened to you?” He kept whispering, “What happened here? He’s an idiot now, this guy!”

5. Some ad libs were successful; others, not so much.

Gilyard: “The quarterback is toast" — yeah, that was an ad lib. Because once I realized that I could talk to John McTiernan, I would come over on days that I wasn’t shooting and tell him what I was developing for the character. And in the course of that, he really had this arc, this whole picture of the image of the build of the picture. And so I would say to him, “You know, I wouldn’t say that.” So he would say, “What would you say?” And that’s when they would roll the camera. And so I realized after a while that I could bring stuff in, and that he would keep some of the ad libs. And I remember The New York Times even responded to that ad lib, and that just tickled me to death.

Barringer: A lot of scenes were changed. Every night we got another script change. As you know, the script starts with white pages, and then they change colors: the first is off-white and the second is yellow and the third is orange. Let me tell you, by the middle of the movie, we ran out of colors. We actually had white ink on black paper to keep going with the colors. But there was a funny scene where I actually screwed up the line. It was when the military vehicles were coming up the stairs of the building. And I ran in the room where Hans was and I was supposed to say, “Hey, they’re using the artillery on us!” But I said, “Hey, they’re using the elderly on us!” So that caused a ten-minute break for laughter.

6. The guy who steals the candy was super polite about it.

Al Leong (Uli, the Asian henchman with the munchies): I only said, like, five words, and let me tell you why: I'm not an actor. I'm a stunt person. And I've always been a stuntman; I've never been an actor. I don't know what an actor does. But I remember stealing the candy bar. I think this is what happened: I had asked McTiernan if it was okay [for my character] to take one. And he said, "Yeah, go ahead."

I would never have done that one on my own — I don't want somebody to say, "You can't touch that stuff!" Lots of times they'll say, "Well, you can't be touching that. It's not really in the shot because we [aren't allowed to] show that." They're always coming up with this or that, so I always ask if I'm going to do something weird before I do it.

7. Demi drama, even here.

VelJohnson: It was interesting. When Bruce was doing his thing, he flew me out early so he could interact with me face to face. So whenever you see him in any of the scenes, like in the bathroom where he cut his foot up and everything, I was right there next to him doing the lines. Everywhere he was, I was doing my lines. But when it came time to do my lines, well, he was nowhere in sight — I had to do my lines with the script girl. But he was a big star so, what the hell, he didn’t care about me. [Big laugh.] So I remember the scene where he was walking barefoot through the glass. Demi Moore happened to be on the set that night. Bruce was involved in this relationship with her. They were going through something and I remember he was pissed that night while he was shooting it. And I remember watching her and watching him. There was tension on the set. That was an interesting night.

Hayden: Demi was planning their wedding, so she never, ever, ever talked to any of us. She was on the set all the time, but she treated us like nobodies. I said hi to her one time and she didn’t ever acknowledge that I’d spoken to her.

8. Argyle actually punches Theo.

After Hans Gruber and what remains of his posse gather up the treasures found within the Nakatomi Corporation’s vault, Theo (Gilyard) is dispatched to the loading dock to prepare the getaway vehicle. But the tech-savvy thief is spotted by rambunctious limousine driver Argyle (De'voreaux White), who slowly pulls the stretch job into attack position. The rest of the sequence is the stuff of legend: Argyle floors it and barrels into the van, then hops out of the limo and issues a punch to Theo's head through the (conveniently open) driver's-side window ...

... and the blow drops the wise-cracking hacker, glasses askew and unconscious (but not dead — Theo lives!), to the floor.

This uncharacteristic act of aggressive bravery both impresses Argyle and hurts his hand.

But as White and Gilyard explain, there was more behind Argyle’s heroic punch than mere acting.

White: Well, at that time, to be quite frank, I didn’t like [Gilyard], so I socked him. There was a conflict over opinions he had about the scene. John McTiernan was like, “No, we’re going to do it this way.”

Gilyard: That’s the way I go in pictures. I figure, if they pay you tens of thousands of dollars, seriously, you’d better bring it. I believe in a working relationship, but I thoroughly believe in a professional relationship where you have to deliver the goods; you have to keep your eye on the prize. But, yeah, maybe there was something there. I bet I my energy ...

White: You know, the guy is a great actor; it’s just at that time, this is what had happened. And then I had a little bit of conflict — the punch [initially] didn’t seem real enough to the stunt guys. They were like, “Sock him! Throw yourself into it and hit him.” Being a character actor, I used that conflict, and when I got out and ran up, I hit him. But don’t tell him that because he might come back and sue me!

Gilyard: That’s great. That’s good to know. I sure didn’t want Devereaux to hit me, that’s for sure. He was funny in the picture, though. He was hilarious. And it is interesting. If you look at the picture, I’m the only terrorist that lives. I don’t know what that was about.

9. Fritz technically survives, too, though.

Burringer: I was shot as I was coming off the elevator. But because I was not an experienced actor as such, and they were already behind schedule, they chose to take a stuntman, put a blond wig on him, and have him come up the elevator with the squibs on his body and go with one take. If you look closely, it’s an American Indian who was my height, or he might even be taller than me. So it wasn’t even me. You would think it’s me, but it’s not really me. So I didn’t even die in the film.

10. Twinkies die hardest of all.

So, do you still remember the four Twinkies ingredients Al rattles off?
VelJohnson: Let me see. Polysorbate 80 ... Yellow Dye No. 5 ... That's about all I can remember.
Close enough. Can you believe Twinkies nearly went under before the Die Hard franchise?
VelJohnson: I heard they're coming back — they got a new deal or something. I heard they're coming back soon is what I hear.
They're just like John McClane.
VelJohnson: Twinkies will never die!

3 things I noticed about the movie tonight:

- mcclane's message he wants al to give holly is this super vulnerable and tearful emo speech which really is pretty effective all the more for being delivered just after he's yanked shards of glass from his foot. I didn't notice it before as much (maybe distracted by the glass and Al's "I shot a kid" thing) but for an eighties action film and despite some of the symbolism later with the watch it's all about mcclane admitting what a douchebag he's been. also his brief mirror monologue after their early argument is a minor version of that.

- speaking of glass I liked his retort to Dwayne Robinson, "who gives a fuck about glass?" followed pretty quickly by Hans strategically using broken glass against him

- the dialogue in his fight with Karl is amazing. The things he says to the guy! "I heard your brother squeal when I broke his fucking neck!" and "I'm gonna fucking cook you and eat you motherfucker!" Love him going Marshall Teague "Roadhouse" style there.

http://i.imgur.com/n3BkK.gif

I just saw Die Hard for the hundredth time last night, this time with someone who had never seen it before. Awesome as always, and noticed a few new things, too! For starters, both Alan Rickman and Bruce Willis are left-handed (though Rickman may actually be ambidextrous). But also, something I've only half-noticed before, after Rickman shoots Takagi, two of the background baddies (Alexander Godunov and the computer guy) exchange money, because they had been betting on the outcome! It's barely in the frame but there if you don't blink.

raise yr hand if you are watching die hard this christmas

it is a tradition in the gbx household

A friend of mine has never seen "Die Hard' or "Gremlins." I told him he needs to see them ASAp or Santa is bringing him a lump of coal.

this from al leong's post upthread is amazing:

Robert Davi: The first time I saw the film after it was completed was with Arnold Schwarzenegger. Arnold and I were very close friends because we had done Raw Deal. So, we're watching the movie, and Arnold is absolutely enthralled. I mean, he's blown away by it. And now I come on the screen, saying, "Who's in charge?" and [Deputy Police Chief Dwayne T. Robinson says], "I am," and I go, "Not anymore." And Arnold looks over and goes [in Arnold voice], "I can't believe it, man! You look fantastic! Fucking great here!" Because it looks like this guy is going to come in and save the day. Big Johnson comes in to save the day — that's the first thing you get. This presence comes in, the shit is hitting the fan, nobody is confident, and now you’ve got a guy who you think can come in and clean up. And little by little, he doesn’t. And Arnold kept going, “I can’t believe what you did now here, you idiot. You were heroic! And now you’ve turned into an idiot! I can’t believe it here! What happened to you? What happened to you?” He kept whispering, “What happened here? He’s an idiot now, this guy!”

haha yes

Fuck this movie

merry christmas!

its the best glad we agree

shakey is the dwayne t. robinson of ilx

die hard 4 ever

watching die hard right now w the family. probably the only media even tangentially related to Xmas that i can stand

You guys and your rightwing revenge fantasies

haha yeah I watched this in the cinema last Christmas and my reaction afterwards was "you couldn't make this film in the 21st century"

psh, grinches

Certainly you can't *best* this film in the 21st century. At least, not yet.

Step brothers is better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpIKX8VIaT8

But where are the guns?

one thing i always remember about this movie is when the psychologist is being interviewed by the news anchors and he theorizes that the hostages may be feeling attached to their captors, going through the fictional "Helsinki syndrome", as opposed to the actual IRL Stockholm syndrome.

reference to a fictional syndrome or a deliberate comment on the dumbness of tv commentators?

watched the first three recently… 1>2>>3 for me. I’m surprised no one itt really talked about the racial politics of 3, which to state very charitably have uh, dated

lol what the fuck are the politics of the second one?

A conservative actor playing a cop taking down a Noriega type with a Fidel beard + cigar defended by white supremacists + Black traitors in Special Forces or whatever.

granting that the copaganda is pretty explicit in all of these movies, the bad guys in 2 are at least pretty clearly right wing militia types and their boss is, as you say, a right wing drug lord. bad dudes. and as far as the one high-ranking officer who ends up double crossing, I think that read might be a bit of a stretch if you want to compare it to the reverse racism angle that 3 tries to shove down our throats. I mean seriously, watch 3 again and tell me you don’t cringe at 50% of the dialog between willis and sam jackson, it’s excruciating!

that dialogue probably plays better in a cinema, it's meant to (be non-naturalistic and) get the audience extremely on edge before the plot tension kicks in

Nice little essay here:

https://www.avclub.com/die-hard-works-because-it-s-only-christmas-adjacent-1798242215

Includes this belated eye-opener for me:

Then there’s Rickman as McClane’s opposite, the devilishly sardonic Hans Gruber. (“Silent Night” was composed by Franz Gruber. That has to be a joke, right?)

!