Odd news story re: people killing and butchering horses

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/08/10/horses.slaughtered/index.html

I think the thing I find so perplexing/maddening about this story is the speculation re: motive; even if you think it's okay to eat horses, it surely should register that killing and butchering someone else's animal is not a good idea????

Couto says the killing of horses for their meat is South Florida's "dirty little secret." But it is a secret no longer, with the number of reported horse deaths on the rise.

This sort of hyprocricy always winds me up... Killing cows and pigs and chicken for their meat is perfectly fine, but doing the same to horses is "dirty"? Why?

Because the people doing the killing don't own the horses, I would presume.

because the horses are being stolen

xp

I mean, even if you don't take into account that stealing other people's horses to eat them is extremely stupid, there's a weird "OMG! Those dirty immigrants are eating horses, how savage!" vibe in that story.

(xx-post)

The interest in the meat stems from cultural demand, according to Couto. The Miami area is a melting pot, he says, made up of many nationalities.

So it's the culturals that's doin' it!

It would be kind of amusing if this was being blamed on an influx of French emigrees.

"At this point in the investigation, we're attempting to confirm the existence of a black market demand," Andress says. Video Watch why horse owners are terrified »

Law enforcement authorities say it may be premature to focus solely on a killing-horses-for-meat theory. But Couto believes that is exactly what is happening And, he says, it has been going on for years.

The SPCA's Couto says he knows firsthand that there is a black market for horse meat. He even quotes prices -- a pound of horse meat might sell for anywhere from $7 to $20, with one recent report of $40 for a pound in Broward County.

The interest in the meat stems from cultural demand, according to Couto. The Miami area is a melting pot, he says, made up of many nationalities.

"In their country of origin, horse meat is legal to buy and eat," Couto explains.

This part of the story is just weird to me... If it's legal to breed cows to eat them, surely it should be legal to do the same to horses, so there would be no need for a black market of horse meat. Or is there some US law that states horses aren't to be eaten?

Horses are considered unclean in the American faith, Tuomas.

Horse meat is rarely eaten in the United States and it is difficult to legally obtain horse meat. Horses are raised instead as pets, for working purposes (border patrol, police work, and ranching), or for sport. Horse meat holds a very similar taboo in American culture as it the one found in the United Kingdom previously described, except in the fact that it is extremely uncommon to find it even in its imported form.

Restriction of human consumption of horse meat in the U.S. has generally involved legislation at the state and local levels. In 1915, for example, the New York City Board of Health amended the sanitary code, making it legal to sell horsemeat[46]. During World War II, due to the low supply and high price of beef, New Jersey legalized its sale, but at war's end, the state again prohibited the sale of horse meat, possibly in response to pressure from the beef lobby.

In 1951, Time magazine reported from Portland, Ore.: “Horsemeat, hitherto eaten as a stunt or only as a last resort, was becoming an important item on Portland tables. Now there were three times as many horse butchers, selling three times as much meat.” Noting that “people who used to pretend it was for the dog now came right out and said it was going on the table,” and providing tips for cooking pot roast of horse and equine fillets. A similar situation unfolded in 1973, when inflation raised the cost of traditional meats. Time reported that “Carlson’s, a butcher shop in Westbrook, Conn., that recently converted to horsemeat exclusively, now sells about 6,000 pounds of the stuff a day.” The shop produced a 28-page guide called “Carlson’s Horsemeat Cook Book,” with recipes for chili con carne, German meatballs, beery horsemeat, and more. [47]

Harvard University's Faculty Club had horse meat on the menu for over one hundred years, until 1985.[48] It was available there by special order more recently than that. Until 2007, a few horse meat slaughterhouses still existed in the United States, selling meat to zoos to feed their carnivores, and exporting it for human consumption, but recently the last has closed by court order.[49][50]

Ah yes, I forgot you are all Cowboys and horses are your pals.

(x-post)

isn't there a "Tuomas Confused by Ways of Americans" thread for this kind of thing

we also don't eat dogs or cats

the phrase "dirty little secret" refers to some shameful thing you like to keep hidden -- it doesn't mean eating horses is objectively dirty so much as it means Florida would be kinda embarrassed for people to know that stolen-horse-butchering tended to happen down there.

xpost - didn't we just talk about this the other day? yes, Tuomas, the US is one country where there is currently a taboo attached to eating horse meat, and the butchering of horses and/or sale of horse meat is legally restricted. no, there is no grand moral reason that taboo attaches to horses and not cows. that's just how it is everywhere: there are things different cultures eat and things they don't.

doesn't every (western?) country have this though? do they let you eat/sell whatever you want in finland? xp

horse steak is tasty

wtf is there a lot of horse-meat eaten in finland?

i had some at a cookout in switzerland

In Canada you can eat a person if they are over 30.

NB I am not bothered by the reference to immigration because, you know, it's true, what people eat is a cultural thing, and some people come from places where they enjoy some horse and will maybe pay a premium at their local butcher for some good old horse chops

I'm not suggesting that most Americans would ever consider eating horse meat. But if there's enough demand for it to run a black market, if the demand is such that some folks are stupid enough to steal horses to get the meat, surely someone must've thought that it's simply easier to breed horses legally for this market?

In fact Canada is a conflation of "Cannibals: Ta-da!"

So what happens if you masturbate a horse in front of a baby?

END THE RACIST DRUG HORSE WAR

The crazy thing about horse sperm is that it can walk almost as soon as it comes out of the horse's penis.

doesn't every (western?) country have this though? do they let you eat/sell whatever you want in finland? xp

I can't imagine there's any Finnish law that would stop people from eating or selling some particular type of meat, unless it's an endangered animal. However, I don't think there's much demand for horse meat in here. However, this article seems to suggest such demand exists in Florida, so I was wondering why people hadn't taken the easy route and simply started to breed horses for meat there? Or at least import horse meat from some other country? That's why I asked if there's a law against it.

Tuomas, I don't understand your confusion. (a) In lots of places around the country, raising, butchering, and selling horse meat is restricted. You can't just up and do it legally. (b) There may be enough people who want some that it gets sold, but there are not enough people who want some to start any big legislative campaign about changing horse-meat laws. (c) This sucks if you enjoy a nice piece of horse, but it's unlikely that any elected official is going to start a whole "hey, people deserve to eat horses" campaign about it.

because people don't really eat horse meat in this country, it's a very rare thing

that was to Tuomas

oh, xpost - like Dan posted up above, it's legally restricted in most places. I imagine if you could raise and eat your own horse there'd be a lot less authority to stop you, but sale on the market is not a thing we generally do

changing the law to allow people to butcher and sell horse meat for a tiny minority interest is by no means the "easy route", that is why there is a black market.

xps ha

Okay, if there really is a law that restricts even importing/selling horse meat, then I understand this story. That's all I wanted to know.

they got horse butchers here. well not many but at least 1, my grandpa started eating horse meat towards the end of his life, supposedly this was good for his blood. he died anyway.

(minority meant in a mathematical sense, not racially)

xps

tuomas did you not read that huge block quote from dan. jesus christ you are frustrating.

Horseradishes are legal to eat here, so why not rad-ish horses?

it's unfair.

i don't think we should kill and butcher cows either because they're just as nice and pet-like as horses but no one seems to agree with me ;_;

I do.

he died anyway.

But he died with good blood. I dunno about you, but I think that's worth something.

fwiw I found that block quote by typing "horse meat" into Google and clicking on the Wikipedia link; it took me all of 90 seconds to find it

Oh I thought maybe you took an elective in horse meat back in college.

Yeah, I read the block quote, but it doesn't really say selling or importing horse meat is against the law, just that it's difficult to obtain it. That's why I was asking.

to be fair, this thread is the third link on a google search for "horse meat" + finland

(!!!)

exactly. (couple of xps)

i think this horse meat has amazing powers somehow correlates with it's obscurity and the rareness of its consumption.

To be fair to Tuomas, it is a seemingly arbitrary taboo/law. But this might offer a clue as to the reasons for its existence:

but at war's end, the state again prohibited the sale of horse meat, possibly in response to pressure from the beef lobby.

They certainly had a steak in the outcome

to be fair, this thread is the third link on a google search for "horse meat" + finland

holy shit, Google

to be fair, this thread is the third link on a google search for "horse meat" + finland

But the first link says:

"Here in Finland its really difficult to get horse meat, although it was quite common food 50 years ago"

!!!

it's weird that you can race horses at the Kentucky Derby but can't eat them at the Brown Derby

It's not really restricted on any huge morality grounds, though, I don't think -- my other guess for why would be that, umm, since we're a culture that doesn't really eat horses, horse meat was generally a crappy last-resort meat, and probably sold in the kinds of crappy last-resort exploitative ways that, if you happened to be framing laws about meat sales and whatnot, you might be interested in cracking down on.

I mean, so far as I know it's a pretty smallish number of people/cultures for whom horse meat is considered a nice enough thing that it's specifically preferred to the alternatives. Lost of the west seemed to eat them back when there were lots of them around anyway, standing there looking edible, but they're better for working than eating and never exactly considered a delicacy, so between the advent of cars and the length of the 20th century, they were sorta bound to disappear from the plate.

I wonder if people in AZERBAIJAN eat horse meat?

oh that did nothing to google.

Abbott, you're awesome.

Ha what?

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/228428209

I just read some statistics, apparently in 2007 there was 250 000 kilos of horse meat produced in Finland, as opposed to 88 570 000 kilos of cow meat and 213 320 000 kilos of pig meat. So it's not a large number, but there is some horse meat production in here anyway. The statistics don't say whether the horses were bred for their meat though, or if the meat is merely a side product. I've never seen horse meat on sale at any grocery store, I think most of it must go to sausages, for other animals to eat, or maybe to some specialist restaurants.

http://www.chevalcanadien.org/images/logo-transparent.gif

probably for dog food though xp

oh yeah you said that

I find myself thinking about horsemeat dog food often, because every time my dog sees a horse he makes like he thinks he can fight it. I have no idea what his plan is on that front. But I think, hey, if I could feed him a dinner of horsemeat and pieces of the vacuum cleaner, maybe he will feel like he has finally won.

i like how tuomas refers to finland as "in here" like it's a coxy little hut.

cozy

Ha! My family's weiner dog is always trying to take on horses, burros, deer, and other ungulates. I am surprised her little football chest hasn't been kicked in. They probably don't even notice her.

why did I misread "burros" as "burritos"

The ungulate burrito

You'd think if it were dog food they'd just take the whole thing and not just the choice cuts....

umm this is a side thing but Dan, when I was (briefly) a young reporter, I did a story about these people in northern Michigan who had some burros they'd gotten from some kind of US/Mexico livestock exchange program (?!), and they had named them, iirc, "Taco" and "Fajita"

please let this spin off into a conversation about eating burros

i rode (but did not eat) a burro last year

his name was Fred

Time magazine from 1948, embarrassing itself beyond all measure:

Next to the ox that pulls his plow, the Mexican peon's most valued possession is his wistful little burro. Last week, the sturdy little beast that carries the nation's backland freight, causes many of its automobile accidents, adorns its literature and enriches its profanity, supplied the theme for the song leading Mexico's hit parade. It was called My Little Burro Doesn't Want to Go, and it was written by a young man named Ventura Romero who had never ridden a burro in his life.

Often as not, after a Saturday night, the burro carries home a bleary-eyed master who these days bawls drunkenly:

Do not make me angry now,

For soon we will arrive

And I will give you corn.

there is (was?) a restaurant in toronto that had horse meat on the menu - think it was a tapas place? - but no1 i was with ordered it, seemed kinda gross

i havent been to any usa restaurants that had horse on the menu i guess becuz of it being mostly illegal/not having gone to harvard

i havent been to finland full stop

I have eaten the burros mentioned here: http://www.burritoblog.com/2005/05/chicken_burro_p.html

ftr this blog post is RONG; it is incredibly tasty

wow -- while trying to sort out something about that guy's use of "enchilada" and the use of "mojado" to refer to a "wet" burrito, I learned that "mojado" is used as a Spanish equivalent of the slur "wetback," which is probably going to make me feel weird while ordering a burrito at some point

Once I went on some church trip to a Nevada lake in the middle of the desert, and the bishop kept warning us to watch our for wild burros. It just made me worry abt this dude wandering around after having downed way too much peyote:

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee79/austinwoods14/William-S-Burroughs.jpg

"Burro meat," or the edible flesh of the burro used for eating burro and making burro recipes, was imported into Finland in the mid 1980s as an ineffectual performance art piece commenting on the Iran-Contra scandal. It was foolishly assumed that Iranians feast on burro as "simple" impoverished people who live in the desert.

One Toronto restaurant that has horse available is La Palette in Kensington Market. Real nice little French bistro. I had the horse once, and it was just OK. For a long time, it was not on the menu, just listed verbally by the waitstaff as part of the "quack and track" special, with duck, obv. We made the mistake of taking a horse-loving friend there and could not stop the server from listing the specials in time...horrified looks from our friend, but she didn't storm out of the place, anyway. That's the only place I think I've seen horse on a menu in Toronto.

For those worried human flesh is "addictive," as legend says

finland

there was a proposition to legalize horse meat in CA last election. it failed.

yah paul thats the place ~ or at least the place that had it when i went was in kensington so

It's weird that it's legal to eat like a horse but illegal to eat a horse.

Wow Toronto, I had no idea. I'm going to get in on some of this.

At least this is distracting you from my camel eating.

I heard trivia once that stated that eating horsemeat is only unpopular in English speaking countries.

Horse is tasty, you can eat it in Canada and Mexico. For some reason in the USA, it's only suitable for dog food... strangely permissable for a dog to eat horse but not humans.

"a nice piece of horse" is the funniest phrase i've read all month