US politics: Can someone continue summarising what's going on with the GOP?

Continued from the endless thread.

gop ca. 1960s: medicare = current generation will be the last to know freedom
gop ca. 2009: medicare = sacrosanct entitlement for the older generation that libruls want to kill

Can someone continue summarising what's going on with the GOP?

They are losing "their" country, and they do not like it.

losers be losin

a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of losers

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2003/images/zeolite/hindenberg.jpg

that jgp was the best thing about the first thread

How are they multiplying? Do you not see that they're multiplying? Are you that blind? Have you noticed that there's more than there were last year and the year before, and the year before that? How are they multiplying? They're reproducing right? No, here's a biology lesson: they're not reproducers, they're recruiters! And you know who they're after? Your children. Remember you dropped off your kids last week? That's who they're after. You drop them off at some daycare, you drop them off at some school somewhere, you don't know where they're at. I'll tell you where they're at: they're being recruited by the sodomites. They're being molested by the sodomites. I can tell you so many stories about people that I know being molested and recruited by the sodomites.

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/gospel-hate-arizona-pastor-steve-and

Okay that photo SO does not help his case.

http://static.crooksandliars.com/files/uploads/2009/08/steve_39657.jpg

"DON'T HIT!"

ned i dunno if direct linx are a good idea

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/gun-toting-arizona-protester-belongs

hot xx-post

That's who just sold our corporations to the government.

homophobia totally run of the mill, but this very concept is completely mindboggling in its logical inversion of reality

Looks like George McFly

ned i dunno if direct linx are a good idea

Was going back and forth on that. (The first photo is hosted on the Crooks and Liars site, FWIW.)

That dude seriously does not know how to hold a baby.

how is babby held?

Pretty poorly.

omg lol -- WSJ: Obama must move to the right to 'save his Presidency'

save it from what? lol blackmail.

SAVE IT FROM ABJECT FAILURE, obv.

interesting angle there, how Clinton benefited from the GOP. Something must be wrong with my browser though because I can't find the word 'impeachment' anywhere in that article.

lol. I assume the op-ed author would not say the same about Republican Presidents (i.e., that they campaign on a centerist platform, but if they try to govern from the far right, they're doomed to failure), since the underlying assumption is that the country is center/right.

I usually give more cred to the wsj for at least being a grounded conservative view. but that is some totally blinded by bias crapola.

We liberals still dream of the zipless debate -- of the claim so clear and pure that it can’t be routed in some bizarre fashion. As we dream these dreamers’ dreams, we show that we still don’t understand the shape of our current predicament.

Can we talk? In years when no GOP congressman has been discovered sleeping with boys, it’s easy to defeat our proposals! (There is no easier job on earth than that of the pseudo-con pundit.) Typically, we show few signs of understanding why that is. ...

The other side just has to say a few words: “Government takeover!” No, wait: “Death panels!” By way of contrast, our guy goes out there for an hour -- and nobody knows what he wants!

One side gets to yell crazy things -- and the other side is required to make intensely detailed presentations! And yet, the side which yells the crazy things is the side which constantly wins! It’s almost like a dream from Kafka -- a dream our side can’t quite explain. Then too, we thought of a passage from Wittgenstein: “We feel as if we had to repair a torn spider’s web with our fingers.”

tracer that is an argument for...what? more bamboozlement and bullshit from "us"? completely running over republicans rather than any show of deliberation or respect? i'm half in favor...

i don't still dream of a zipless debate, fwiw

i think it's less of an argument than a painful yawp of frustration and disappointment

'zipless' meaning what, exactly? velcro, maybe.

i know this has been said, but i think handwringing about how "we always lose!" is playing into the republican narrative way more than anything that's actually going on in washington. "we" (however you define that) do not always lose. it's just not true.

a health care bill is going to pass. it's not going to be everything anybody wants it to be, but it's going to pass and it's going to be a "win," and people who think it's going to be "defeated" by crazy people waving hitler pictures just need to calm down and enjoy the spectacle.

and really, who doesn't enjoy clowns waving crudely drawn Hitler posters?

(can someone compare contrast the Bush=Hitler posters w/some Obama=Hitler posters? Cuz I definitely saw the former at various anti-war protests)

tipsy mothra otm

social security was kind of a shitty deal when it was put together too

You know what blows my mind? We have 3 1/2 years more of these people losing their shit. Like, it took Bush fatigue a few years to get going. But Obama? Instant anti-karma. What will the nuts be saying/doing next year?

Shouting loudly at primaries and caucuses?

The Democrats should simply refuse to engage with townhall people. It will piss them off, yes, but the party can then respond that they won't respond to irrational people demeaning the process by spreading lies, misinformation and rumors.

eh, i kind of agree w/ that, but the optimist/idealist in me thinks that the dems engaging w/ the psychos in as kind and open a way as possible is likely to both reap long- and short-term political rewards but also maybe inject some level of openness and kindness to political discourse

I don't buy that, really, though I would like, if not kindnness, a certain flinty insitence on civility and at least a modicum of respect for American democracy's functioning requiring at least some reference to facts more than emotions.

engaging w/ the psychos in as kind and open a way as possible is likely to both reap long- and short-term political rewards but also maybe inject some level of openness and kindness to political discourse

this is highly unlikely. you cannot co-opt an irrational opponent with rationality, it doesn't work.

yeah i mean doing so not as a strategy to make crazy people uncrazy but as a strategy to make every who isnt crazy less likely to act crazy in the future, and also to remind everyone out there which party is the crazy party

Just because the base of the Republicans looks crazier, now, doesn't mean that the Democratic base doesn't have its share and doesn't have some internal contradictions. In the end, this will come as much from appealing to various constituencies, inductries and interest groups. It almost always does, no matter what the chatter is about.

That chick that Frank smacked down was a LaRouchebag after all.

(Why am I hearing that epithet in Scooby's voice all of a sudden?)

The only thing you can do about crazy people is to make them look even crazier, either by refusing to engage or by setting the terms of the argument.

Borat to the rescue?

suzy, while that is globally true, TV stations have no particular self-interest in objective policy debates. They LOVE self-righteous, loud crazies. It stirs shit up.

UH. There is really nothing anyone here needs to remind me about re. the workings of the media. I was more or less talking about how the Dems should handle it; these yahoos at Town Halls were the same people who'd screech and boo a person who had the temerity to turn up to a Bush event in an anti-war t-shirt, and their favourite politicians would often have such people arrested or harassed.

Anyway, Randall Terry of Operation Rescue turned up to a TH where Howard Dean spoke and was disruptive, so Dean chucked him out.

parkour

yes I have complete freedom to choose my doctor. No waits for anything. If you're in the system, you're covered. You just may have to wait for reimbursement if you change doctors (you do have to register your choice of doctor with the insurance agency).

xp more wine

power of christ compels him iirc

upside w/ the texas thing is that now the rest of america will finally get to learn about those brave souls who defended the alamo from the mexicans who wanted to take it from them

But we learn about that already!

ya but now that's going to constitute all of 9th and 10th grade history, as it should

alamo cakes at every birthday party across the land

http://sandraorlando.typepad.com/photos/ethans_alamo_cake_/nov-pics-160.jpg

little known fact: thomas jefferson was fighting on the mexican side

that explains why Mexicans are all fluent in French

you think jefferson being seduced by the infamous parasite harlot sally hemmings would win some support from the men's rights crowd. can't win 'em all i guess!

proof that TJ was in favor of integrated sex ed for babies, so he's got to go

What I never get about the evangelicals is how they can remain ignorant of what NOT separating church and state will do. The 16th and 17th centuries, the ones just before the one which ended in US independence was cram-packed with gruesome wars over religion and sectarianism; the Wars of Religion, the 30 Years War, the English Civil War and even in North America the history of Massachussetts alone should give most people pause about placing religion so close to the heart of politics. Established state churches tend to either be feckless and part hollow or tend to be corrupt and tyrannical. One of the reasons the US is so religious is precisely that people can pick and choose and support their own church as opposed to having to support some official one and if you think poltics is venemous already imagine what it would be like if we constantly debated liturgical and doctrinal points in our legislatures.

ya but that is based an empirically true historical facts and in the wrds of lionet hutz, there's the truth *smh at empiricism" and THE TRUTH! *nodding my head at JESUS*

*lionel

We've got an established church in the UK and Parliament really doesn't spend its time doing that. I think the fundamentalists are so hot on reducing the separation of church and state because they figure it's going to be their church (or one much like it) that ends up bossing everyone around. And they'd quite like some of that action.

They don't quite get that all the other churches' congragations aren't going to be all that chuffed about it. They're also under the impression that were they in charge the country would suddenly turn into some sort of technicolor vision of utopia; i.e. that idealised version of 1950s that they're so unaccountably hot for...

Ahh, the 1960s, a time mercifully free of abortions and gays.

where the only black people you saw opened your door, cooked your food and raised your kids and the only Hispanic people you saw tended your garden and the only Asian people you saw were in California

Doctors make like 3k euros a month on average, net, here in France, a far cry from the 17k dollar a month (gross?) posted for average doctor wages upthread.

what i posted upthread is gross, yes. once you take out malpractice/taxes/overhead/loans i'd say it's substantially less, and maybe quite a bit closer to the wages of a french physician (assuming your 3k/mo is actual take-home pay (post-taxes).

Yes, the 3k here is net, meaning after all taxes. My impression is that malpractice insurance is way less of a big deal here.

also it helps that 1 euro = $1,000,000 right now iirc

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/bachmann-were-not-going-to-obey-health-care-law----we-dont-have-to-video.php?ref=mp

at some point she's going to say something unambiguously treasonous and it's going to be very, very funny

what i posted upthread is gross

Yeah, I'll say.

We've got an established church in the UK and Parliament really doesn't spend its time doing that.

Yeah but it's numbers have dwindled to near nothing and its influence isn't very broad.

for which we can all be truly thankful.

What I never get about the evangelicals is how they can remain ignorant of what NOT separating church and state will do.

They don't seem to mind war too much, though. What I don't get is what a stupid, futile argument it is. There is no serious or halfway valid argument that even remotely supports that the founders, whether Christians themselves or not, wanted a theocracy. They bleeding well did not, and it would take a conserva-zombie invasion on the Supreme Court for even a single member to say otherwise. Granted, "no law regarding the establishment of religion" is ambiguous (no law establishing, or no law regarding establishments?), but it's not like these people are getting into semantics and legal precedent. They're just saying, "The Constitutions doesn't have the words 'separation of church and state'. 'Nuff said. I win." They may as well hold their breath and stomp.

From the School Board blog: "Board member Barbara Cargill wants to insert a discussion of the right to bear arms in a standard that focuses on First Amendment rights and the expression of various points of view... the amendment passes."

This should be funny, but somehow I'm having trouble working up a good chuckle.

While they're showing the negative impact of progressive politics they would do well to show that the 14th amendment that was passed to free the slaves has been cited time and time again by corporations in their pursuit of limitless power.

More fun.

because gay people are like animals DO YOU SEE

fuck the horses, what about the BOX TURTLES

http://www.craphound.com/images/boxturtlemarriage.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcF1QFRjwT4

"Once, in Hawaii, I had sex with a hundred-and-two -year-old male turtle. It is hard to argue that it was consensual."

this. fuckin. guy.

http://gawker.com/5494119/rachel-maddow-vs-the-man-who-thinks-gay-marriage-is-sorta-like-beastiality

can someone lock this thread?

hey matt i'm not trying to earn persecution points here, the point of my response to adam was that i was looking for a constructive way to respond to an anti hrc person--that i happen to be close to--who is worried about losing her job.

thanks for the suggestions guys

Yeah i was under the impression that it was your mom's friend that had that job. And given the polarizing nature of the debate I thought you were asking hypothetically, which I hope will help explain that flippant remark. Yeah never in a million years should you actually tell someone who's afraid of losing their job that.

It's a good point to bring up though, one that I often forget. That as evil as these companies may seem at times they still have real people working there that have managed to keep a job in the face of the most dismal of economies.

ha sorry adam i forget its not quite in the ilx faq that hoos has 2 mommies

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/right-now/

It's fun to laugh at Steele and the RNC but will it make any difference come the midterm elections?

will Republican in-fighting make a difference in the midterm elections? YOU BETCHA

significant money problems matter, and if his shenanigans start to have irl $$ consequences, maybe?

there was a short bit on tpm about a huge 527 group that almost looked like a "shadow rnc", let me see if i can find it

That Weigel guy who writes that column is a knucklehead, but the 47% who voted for McCain don't care.

I hope you guys are right but I'm not yet convinced. We'll see

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/04/gearing_up_for_midterms_gop_heavyweights_raise_30m.php

karl rove, ed gillespie, former RNC chair mike duncan, some chamber of commerce people, $30 million... michael who?

aw weigel is ok

yeah this is all about money - if the GOP's finances are screwed up and drained by Teabagger primary challengers, this is gonna hurt them.

there was a short bit on tpm about a huge 527 group that almost looked like a "shadow rnc", let me see if i can find it

"Could Karl Rove's new 527 avoid campaign-finance disclosure requirements?"
http://www.slate.com/id/2249952/?from=rss

It's called American Crossroads

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/morning-fix/20100405-tea-party-poll.html?wprss=thefix

Between Chamber of Commerce and industry ads and Faux news and AM talk radio and plenty of op-ed columnists it's not like Republicans aren't getting their message out.

shhh.. the liberal media conspiracy!

hey we've had like two politics threads since this one, can we lock this now?