Four-way Stop Signs

Do people know what these mean anymore? I've begun taking a new route home from work that takes me down a road with a stretch of four way stops that can get a little congested during rush hour. What I first noticed was that a day rarely went by where there wasn't a near-accident as people rushed through the intersection. So while I was waiting in line for my turn, I started observing how other people handled these and I was stunned by how many people pulled up to the stop sign, waited for a bit and then proceeded to drive through without even acknowledging other drivers and what they might have been doing. A majority of them didn't even turn their heads, just paused for what they felt was long enough then plunged ahead. Do people just forget the basics of driving etiquette the older they get? Are they not teaching this to new drivers?

Really just hoping this turns into a patented cluster like that blind spot checking thread.

I've def noticed this getting worse over the past 7 or 8 years. No idea why, other than people becoming even more impatient, ADDified, and self-centered.

I haven't seen such problems with these. Where I've driven people more or less respect the order of arrival at 4-way stops.

I see it every day. Multiple times. Irks me no end.

Yeah, I think the self-centered thing plays a part, "I've already waited too long, I'm going now".

Where I've driven people more or less respect the order of arrival at 4-way stops.

Well, you're supposed to do it in order of arrival, but if two people arrive at the same time, you yield to the guy on your right. This is too much for some drivers to handle

I agree, by the way, that this has gotten worse in the last several years. I stopped driving in 2002 and when I started again in 2008, I noticed that people were screwing it up regularly.

I clearly remember riding with my mom as a kid, and there would be these friendly standoffs. "No you go ahead...no that's ok, I think you stopped first, after you...ok thank you kindly, sir. good day...yes it is a good day, friend. ta ta". No it's just "I think I was----VROOOOOOOM!"

I love four-way stops. They have such faith in humanity! I grew up in a rural area w/one-mile 'country blocks' & a four-way stop at every one. Everyone knew how they worked there. Maybe it is in larger cities where people are accustomed to traffic lights where people get flustered at how to use them.

People in the area were irritatingly flustered by traffic lights, though; no one would turn right on a red.

the one thing that sends me into a rage is when someone who has very clearly arrived at a stop sign before you insists on waving you ahead. just follow the system and save your misplaced politeness for something actually important

FOR REAL

These things work because of rules!

Dear Merkins, please to get roundabouts and this problem will go away. Love, the Britishes.

Do you want to see despair and confusion? See Americans trying to use a roundabout.

Though if they make mountains come out of the sky and stand there, I can see why they would be popular.

man we have roundabouts in dc and fuck roundabouts

motherfuckers going around in endless circles on their cell phones, not knowing what to do

^^^^
I think America would break down in a matter of hours if we switched to roundabouts.

Yeah, see, the politely waving someone else to go doesn't work when someone else at the intersection isn't paying attention.

motherfuckers going around in endless circles, talking on their cell phones, not knowing what to do

that was driving me crazy. . . get it? driving???

I wasn't even aware of the yielding-to-the-right thing.

Also, fuck a roundabout.

What do they teach you in driver's ed now then?? I mean there's only like 2 or 3 right of way rules you need to know.

http://www.snopes.com/autos/law/fourway.asp

^^^comedy gold imo

ugh had to deal with a bunch of roundabouts in S Carolina recently - fuck that shit

there are tons of four-way stops in SF and most people seem pretty good about them - the thing that confuses everybody is pedestrians. like if you get there first but a pedestrian is crossing in front of you and you wait its like you've forfeited your turn and then everyone gets confused... also the excessive double-parkage and cars just stopping in the street whenever they feel like it compounds the problem...

worst is when the power goes out so there are no stop lights and even if people know they're supposed to "treat it like a four-way stop" it doesn't matter because they think that means just keep driving

i like roundabouts!

basically driving in SF is like some hyper-aggro videogame where you have to be looking in 6 different places at once just to make sure you don't kill anybody. no one obeys traffic laws (although cops will bust you for malparkage and blatantly illegal u-turns)

i like roundabouts!

pffft figures

; )

tbf the traffic circles in dc aren't really the same as the modern roundabouts that people are advocating for now.

http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/07/roundabouts-vs-traffic-circles.php

worst is when the power goes out so there are no stop lights and even if people know they're supposed to "treat it like a four-way stop" it doesn't matter because they think that means just keep driving

Yeah, a light in our neighborhood went out last week on a street that was much busier in the East-West direction than the North-South. It seemed like no one traveling in the main direction stopped, they just kept rolling right through. When I stopped like I was supposed to, the guy behind me got all pissed and laid on his horn.

this is why I hate driving around Jersey City.

I knew about yeilding to the right at a four-way and I a) don't drive and never have and b) live somewhere where 4-way stops are pretty much non existent!

(but there was one in my home town right by my house, I guess I got told about the rule by mum).

Surely though, to go back to the OP of jons, if an intersection was that busy that people were constantly barreling thru having near-misses, why arent there lights installed?

Well the particular ones I'm talking about are in a pretty rich north shore suburb of Chicago, some 5-6 million dollar houses, I think the people living there would be all horrified to admit their enclave is busy enough to warrant a stoplight.

the one thing that sends me into a rage is when someone who has very clearly arrived at a stop sign before you insists on waving you ahead. just follow the system and save your misplaced politeness for something actually important

I hate whenever someone who has the right of way waves me to go. It would take less time for me if you just drove, buddy.

classic circumstance:

two cars pull up at the same time. Both do the polite traveler thing and try to let the other person go. No one moves for 2.5 seconds. Then, fed up, both inch forward at the same time, and then stop at the same time. Then they both go again at the same time, then stop. Finally, one person just goes extra fast through the intersection, while the other person is like "GOD, C'MON". Inevitably, a spouse/bf/gf passenger in one of the vehicles comments on the situation, leading to an argument.

i don't see people just not paying attention much, but i do get really annoyed when people don't signal their turns at four-way stops. like, you really wanted to swerve into oncoming traffic rather than tell people in advance that you'd be turning left?

dunno if this has been mentioned but the point of a 4 way is so you can ignore it if there's no one already waiting. you can't do that at a normal stop sign

Signaling is a whole other topic, but yeah, people have largely forgotten their signals over the last few years.

xpost

Roundabouts in the UK are amazing, not always in a good way, but if you're an adrenalin junkie...

i don't see people just not paying attention much, but i do get really annoyed when people don't signal their turns at four-way stops. like, you really wanted to swerve into oncoming traffic rather than tell people in advance that you'd be turning left?

― circles, Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:48 PM (50 minutes ago)

yeah this is like, my #1 pet peeve of driving - ppl who dont use turn signals annoy the fuck out of me

Thing is, it sometimes backfires on them. You're arriving at a 4-way head-on at pretty much the same time (although the other guy may be slightly ahead) and you're going straight through. You proceed forward, because it doesn't matter that he was a little ahead as you're not going to collide. The other guy, who intends to turn left across you forgets to signal, then gets all pissed off, as if you've not factored in his turn (the one he didn't signal for).

^^^Happened three times in the last month and I lolled each time.

When people do shit like that and get pissed at me, I give 'em a huge, friendly wave. Seems to enrage them much more than a one-finger salute ever could.

That or yawn.

yeah this is like, my #1 pet peeve of driving - ppl who dont use turn signals annoy the fuck out of me

― dorroughmac (k3vin k.), Tuesday, September 15, 2009 8:40 PM Bookmark

^^^

dunno if this has been mentioned but the point of a 4 way is so you can ignore it if there's no one already waiting. you can't do that at a normal stop sign

This is also known as an excellent way to hit a pedestrian or a cyclist. I can't think of any state that I've ever driven in in which stop signs are optional under ANY circumstance. See also: jacktards who ignore the stop signs and other signals in large (e.g., shopping mall) parking lots.

ya i was being mostly facetious

Me too dude I totally blow through them if nobody is there.

dont understand the fuss about roundabouts, tbh. anyone that's ever had to step off a moving carousel shouldn't find them a problem.

Dear roundabout-fearing Americans, I recommend not driving between Bicester and Milton Keynes if you are ever in the UK:

Driving directions to Bletchley, Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire, UK
At Wendlebury Interchange, take the 2nd exit onto A41 heading to Buckingham/A4421/Aylesbury/Bicester 2.3 mi
At the roundabout, take the 2nd exit onto Oxford Rd
Go through 1 roundabout 0.2 mi
At the roundabout, take the 2nd exit onto King's End 0.2 mi
Continue on Queen's Ave 0.2 mi
At the roundabout, take the 2nd exit onto Buckingham Rd
Go through 2 roundabouts 1.0 mi
At the roundabout, take the 2nd exit onto A4421 5.9 mi
At the roundabout, take the 3rd exit onto A421/Tingewick Bypass
Go through 9 roundabouts 12.9 mi
At the roundabout, take the 3rd exit onto B4034/Buckingham Rd
Go through 2 roundabouts 2.3 mi
Enter Brunel Roundabout 344 ft

There was one where the map didn't even show a turning off the roundabout, just the main road in a straight line with a roundabout in the middle (there turned out to be a little farm track joining it too)

4 way stop signs! - pah!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/wiltshire/content/images/2007/10/22/msn_magic_roundabout_470x350.jpg

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd319/AFI66/Pentagram.jpg

xp
Actually, that's not the one I was thinking off - that's the so-called "magic roundabout" in Swindon, my favourite is the one in Hemel Hempstead, which warns you of it's approach thus...

http://www.tachoblog.com/wp-content/uploads/090415-magic-roundabout-hh-sign.jpg

At which point you go just close your eyes and hope for the best.

Amazingly here's a photo from opening day of the Hemel roundabout in 1973. You can see the small river running through the middle which at least one large lorry has tried (and failed) to cross.
http://www.tachoblog.com/wp-content/uploads/090415-magic-roundabout-hh-opening.jpg

Don't get me started on turn signals. I work with a guy who flat out refuses to use them and whenever the discussion comes up, he insists that "no one pays attention to them anyway, so I'm not gonna bother". Its very hard for me to restrain myself whenever he goes on this tirade.

Seriously???? That is like a whole new level of insanity and denial. I mean, it's one thing to convince yourself that seatbelts or helmets KILL because of some cousin of a friend of an old neighbor was wearing a seatbelt/helmet in a crash and also died, since that mostly only affects the person in denial, but not signally endangers everybody who would potentially have to react to your turn.

People who look over their shoulder to check their blind spot when changing lanes on a motorway, classic or fucking terrifying?

People who don't use turn signals are the most disgusting savages in the world.

Trust me, every argument that can be imagined has thrown at this guy, be basically it comes down to him being a lazy, inconsiderate ass. I mean, yeah, I understand moving your hand a whole 4 inches to flick your indicator is a lot of work, but jesus.

this is not the foreplay thread

Oh come on, you like it when we start talking about flicking the indicator.

i prefer people not jumping straight into it

Its the only sure way to be safe.

i hate it when people don't signal. it's so common that whenever i'm on a bike at a four-way stop, sometimes i'll wait practically forever for all the cars to go just because i don't believe that i can predict where people are going based on signals or lack of suck. and because i now live in rhode island, not boston, sometimes my waiting holds up traffic until i realize the drivers are actually WAITING for me...i'm just so used to scary, aggressive drivers at this point that i expect that.

This is one of the reasons I don't bike to work, I'd be scared to death. That and I often have to drive 50+ miles to job sites, but still...

until i realize the drivers are actually WAITING for me...i'm just so used to scary, aggressive drivers at this point that i expect that.

Ha, yes. I forget where I was, but I was not so long ago somewhere that was not Chicago and a random driver stopped when she had the right of way to wave me across the street and I went, but I was basically braced and cringing, waiting to be run over, until I made it safely to the other sidewalk.

moving your hand a whole 4 inches

if that! you need to get this guy to post here so we can all unleash pent up hostility on him.

while we're on about driving, here's what main st, dublin, ireland looks like this afternoon.

https://dl.getdropbox.com/u/818963/0002996810dr.jpg