Dealing with alcoholics/addicts in the family.

My mother is an alcoholic and it's pissing me off. She finally admitted it to herself about a year ago but lately she has been finding excuses not to go to meetings (some proper- she had the dentist last week at the same time) and this weekend she relapsed and couldn't even recognise my older sister. My pregnant sister has told her she isn't even sure if she wants her to see her first grandson when he's born. She lives in a residence where they also have rolling carers who usually takes her to her meetings but they are too easy to give in when she doesn't feel like it and so from now on I'm going to go with her every Wednesday on the bus and wait outside (it's a 1-on-1 drop-in, not the group hug scenario off the telly).

I don't even really know the point of this thread, I just want to vent. It's not the first time it's happened and it just makes everyone who's trying to help her recover feel like shit. Anyone else gone through it? Got any tips?

Also, law folk on ilx- my grandad is going to die any minute within the next couple years due to cancer and heart attacks etc. and she is likely to inherit a big ol' wad of thousands when his house is sold and such. She's already in the process of going bankrupt because of her situation but 1. if she goes bankrupt and then inherit large sums straight after, she'll still have to pay all her debts, right? 2. as no-one really trusts her (see this weekend), is it possible to stop her getting thousands straight away to blow and i dunno, give her an allowance of it every week until she dies (that no-one else can touch obv, it's her money)?

Anyone else gone through it?

yep

Got any tips?

sorry, none. unless cutting her off is an option. this lessened the day to day distresses, but long term it's hard to square with myself sometimes.

re: the inheritance- it may not be a parallel, but if she inherits a house, make sure somebody insures it. that's bitter experience talking.

I don't have any tips for you Samuel. I just want to express my commisseration and to vent that I actually for the first time in my life felt like going to Al-Anon this weekend due to my in-laws and all their dysfunctions.

AHH - Just saw this and can't respond now - meeting. However, I have a lot of experience with this and know how awful and difficult it is to deal with. Just wanted to say that quickly. Back to write more later.

(btw - specifically w/ my mom which I think can be particularly hard for some reason)

In my grandads will I believe everything is split 50/50 between her and my uncle, so it's all just being sold, as much to pay his debts as hers. The place is a Kim&Aggie-esque mess in itself and dealing with my grandad is a whole other trauma that I have had to take charge with myself (being unemployed and having to time to do so, although my uncle is helping at weekends and taking him to appointments because I don't drive).

Can't cut her off, I only see her twice a week. I have got in a routine of sweeping her place to see if she's hidden anything though, as we are decorating at the moment I can do it without just looking like an arse.

She hadn't a drink in like 2 months and was doing really well 'tis the thing. She even saved up loads of undrunk money to spend on the babby and seemed genuinely happy for the first time in ages.

Also, cheers!

She hadn't a drink in like 2 months and was doing really well 'tis the thing. She even saved up loads of undrunk money to spend on the babby and seemed genuinely happy for the first time in ages.

getting your hopes up is the worst, but the alternative is never to have hope for the other person, which is no alternative at all.

Hi Samuel. I have no experience in any situation like this, but all sympathy.

As regards the inheritance, I don't speak from a position of expertise, but in general it'd be her money and those are her debts, and unless she's incapable there's probably no reason why she shouldn't deal with them like any other human being, unpalatable as that may be. Having said that:
1. inheritances can be cut off at the source. Your grandfather, if still capable, can change his will. Obviously whether he would, and whether you can raise it, depends on the relationship. But even if it feels impossible, he may still be receptive if it meant the money staying in the family rather than going to creditors;
2. it's worth sounding this out fully for your own piece of mind anyway. I'd suggest a Citizens' Advice Bureau, they probably have enough knowledge of areas like this. Or you could run it past a solicitor. Do it quickly though - if there is in fact be something you can do, you need to know about it so you can get cracking before it's too late.

My grandmother was a raging alcoholic. On top of that a total bitch (still is) and unfit mother. I can't advise much except I feel for you. The heartache and emotional damage thunders through the entire family. As a result I have little sympathy for my grandmother. I see my father still suffering even though he was never raised by her. Even if you cut off ties completely, the damage won't disappear. It's something you just have to live with. Have you contemplated attending meetings? I know such support groups exist. They might know the best coping mechanisms.

I don't want to. Presuming (hopefully!) I can get a job soon enough and get out of this shithole town, she won't have me around to help her to meetings or be in them. More than anything I am trying to get her in a position where she can look after herself.

yeah, definitely talk to your grandfather and go to a lawyer with him. he would probably suggest you can change the will & set up a trust that doles out to her periodically. so she would still get all she's entitled to. sorry this is happening to you.

Honestly, I do think the best thing for you would be cutting all ties. But I know that is easier said than done. Dealing with addicts is extremely difficult.

We actually and naively tried 'relapse again and we'l cut you out of our lives' a couple months back but it just left her getting more depressed and more of a suicide risk. It didn't work and when we are all communicating then you can see signs of improvement and less self-loathing all around.

man this is bringing me back. really sorry you're going through this.

My alcoholic sister contacted me last week for the first time in almost three years. She is still a complete wreck and in need of treatment for mental issues on top of her drinking problem. I'm trying to be a little optimistic about her contacting me and other family memebers and view it as part of an attempt to begin the process of piecing her life back together, but I don't think she's up for it yet.

Hey AHH - I webmailed you. :-)

Thanks Erica. :) This thread has been good actually, a need to vent can never hurt. (Still, combine my mother's drinking, my dad's gastric band and my grandfather's attempt to be the dirtiest fucking person ever has unfortunately been the best examples of how to live properly, almost obsessively so. Also has turned me into a wreck who has seemingly lost most social skills trying to help a bunch of people who are too busy trying to kill themselves, but you can't win them all.)

I belive I started a similar thread a couple years back when things were really bad w/ mom btw and it did help at the time iirc.

whoa, that sucks man. i remember how much i cried when i realized you can't save everybody. and how much less stressful life became when i finally realized that although i have some investment in some people's personal lives ulitmately it is not my problem, it is theirs. i do what i can and go to sleep with no regrets. i don't know if that helps but one must live their own life.

I belive I started a similar thread a couple years back when things were really bad w/ mom btw and it did help at the time iirc.

i think i stopped using ilx competely! don't recommend that to a hoy hoy obviously.

Churchill really has the right attitude: you can help but being dragged into the mess is detrimental to both you and the sufferer. It doesn't help anyone. If you can't do that, it's best to step away. But I know that's easier said than done. I see that with my dad who still from time to time try to have some form of relationship with his mother.

my grandfather's attempt to be the dirtiest fucking person ever has unfortunately been the best examples of how to live properly, almost obsessively so.

I think that is spot on. My father was abused and as a result he never once lay a finger on me. Never EVER. Doesn't even cross his mind. He's the best dad (as a result). He loves children so much. Too bad he couldn't have more. Whereas my grandmother had too many. (Even one would have been too many.)

A Hoy Hoy, vent all you want. It's good to let it out.

The more I think about the idea of a trust, the more I think that it might be a goer - it sounds like a sensible way of managing a windfall to an unreliable person, though I do not know whether it is a cast-iron way of keeping money away from the creditors. Seeing a solicitor is definitely the thing to do. It's your grandad that has to do it as it's his will and his money, but you can badger him and go along for support - sell it to him as a way of keeping his wealth from going directly to creditors.

A high street solicitor will do - wills are one of their main areas. Get your/your grandad's priorities down on paper and send a proper letter of instruction before you go. It will cost a few hundred quid to sort out, but that has to be worth it if bottoms out whether there is a way of keeping the money in-family.

Oh, I def. want her bills to be paid before anything. Sometimes you just have to take responsibility for the shit you got yourself into.

Also, grandad currently can't walk to due massive tumour and being prone to a third heart attack any second.

I love my life.

i think at this stage impersonating him and engaging in fraud is the only solution. we won't judge you, man.

I appreciate that xp, but if she's going bankrupt anyway she might as well do so without a lump sum coming in her direction, otherwise it just turns into a windfall for stupid lenders.

Have agreed to go with her to her meetings on Mondays and wait outside. Anything to get her going. Importantly, we agreed she'd get the bus here (i live with my dad, not her) and then I'd jump on and go to town with her; hopefully this means that when I leave the area she is used to getting on the bus on her own and going.

All's I can say is, if you haven't already, go to an Al-Anon meeting and talk with other people who are in similar situations. The focus there is on you and not the alcoholic or addict. It's founded on four C's, that you aren't the cause of the disease, that you can't control the disease, you can't cure the disease, and that you yourself have choices.

And -- and this is the part that can be tougher -- accepting that you can't control the person who has the disease.

She goes to a 1-on-1 thing called Turning Points, not an AA.

I'm just saying as far as taking care of yourself through all of this, finding a meeting and learning from others who have been through similar situations could be a big help.

Cheers. Yeah, I may do so. Talking to people on here who have been through similar has been pretty helpful.

Samuel - I didn't go to Al-Anon but I agree that it could only help. I did go over this a lot in individual therapy which was invaluable. You get my webmail btw?

If a lawyer can come to your grandfather's house to set up a trust, that would be good. Is he worried about her? A trust could be presented to him as the only possible way of reliably providing for her.

I have a brother that we have to do this for. An addicted, angry, self-justifying money-sink, his wife even worse. At 60 he's still one big open sore over his mean step-father (who's been dead over 20 years) and is determined to make our mother pay and pay. She's pretty demented at this point, so my sister and I have to finesse the trust—get it all fine-tuned so all my mom has to do is sign.

I don't really know how he feels about it. Today he was able to walk around the house when I was there and I got there while the nurse was taking a blood test and she said he was doing a lot better, so I'm starting to think he's not going to drop dead tomorrow, or at least give us (me, my mum, my uncle and my siblings have all kind of mentioned it) some time to figure out what action to take.

If you have a reasonable uncle, he should probably bring it up with your grandfather. He should be motivated, too, as your mom is probably going to come to him for a loan after she runs through the money.

Her disability and housing benefit covers more than everything, especially once she goes bankrupt. Now she's not drinking, she is spending like a normal person- a bottle of vodka a day adds up! He's pretty great tbh, he has shitty kids and his wife left him and took all his money and left him in loads of debt but he's still working hard on trying to keep everyone's heads above water. He's pretty busy at the moment sorting things with the hospital and paying for skips and etc. etc. etc. for my grandad but once the cleaning of the house and selling his cars/van/etc. happens, everything will be a lot calmer and we can work on these things without distraction.

Talking of sorting the house, next weekend we are going to be doing the garden. It genuinely is a forest. A FREAKING FOREST. I will take pictures (in fact I feel a missed opportunity not taking pictures with the rest of the place for some real before and after magic track moments.)

you seem like a nice young man with a good outlook and i approve in general.

Just been told my grandad got bored today, tried driving, crashed and drove away and now has been summoned by the Oxfordshire police (wtf, different county, he could barely walk yesterday) tomorrow morning for fleeing the accident. Uncle taking him tomorrow morning.

Just glad it was a car he hit and not a child, tbh.

How old is he? Maybe he shouldn't be driving. Maybe since there's been an accident the police will take it out of your hands, which would be good. It's no fun persuading old folks not to drive.

I got my mother to stop by using the following line (after all my logical/moral arguments failed):

"I am just the mouthpiece asking you to stop—but EVERY PERSON WHO KNOWS YOU agrees with me."

That got her. Not "YOUR life will be over soon, but mine will go on for a while and I will have to live with my guilt if I fail to stop you from driving and you hurt someone." I thought that was an EXCELLENT argument, but she just replied, "Well, I'm NOT going to hurt anyone!" Total denial of her blindness, deafness and cognitive losses.

He is in his 70s. After his heart attack he was supposed to go for a thing where they monitor his fitness and whether he'll be able to drive and such (i think it was supposed to be this coming friday) but I guess that's not needed now.

I had talked to bloody everyone I know, incl. him about not driving again. I even joked to my mum about slashing his tires. But everyone just looked at me crazy and more than one person told me "Oh, you don't drive, you don't know how it would feel not to drive again, he should be able to keep this one freedom." (Before all this he was a removals guy and a fucking unsafe driver anyway, has been known to find himself in a ditch).

"my mother is an alcoholic and it's pissing me off"

this is a beautiful first line

hey samuel, i have no experience with this, but i hope everything turns out okay

cheers mane.

That "oh how terrible to lose one's independence" line is such shit. People who get killed by your blind obstinate ass are losing their independence in a big way.

I think this may have cured any depression that might have been setting in:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/62/168965529_81dc4e52d3.jpg

Thank you, ilx.

dealing with john justen dancing in the family

wait till you see the animated gif.

there is an animated gif? omg, praise jesus.

I've loved and hated so many alcoholics throughout my life. The frightening thing is they are the same people.

For me, it becomes real easy to forget the wonderful things that I like about a person when they're acting like a wounded neanderthal.

Ahhhhh...we're doing the intervention in 3 hours. I feel like I'm gonna puke. I'm terrible with confrontation. We have had to lie to her to get her to the place where we're doing the intervention, and she's apparently been clean since her last binge. All of which make me not want to do this.

My only consolation is that we have a professional interventionist (right word?) to guide things and, as the son-in-law, hopefully too much of the talking won't fall on me. But I don't trust my extended family very much to not botch this up somehow. Fuuuuuuck.

good luck homie

thanks a hoy hoy.

Wow, good luck man

just keep reminding yourself - a lot of other ppl would ignore the problem and hope it goes away. you're doing yourself, your wife and your kids a huge favour, bc i'm sure they want their grandma around, healthy and happy, for years to come.

good luck! hopefully with a professional involved it'll be harder for your in-laws to fuck it up too badly.

It went really well. There waas no anger involved. Mostly a lot of love and support. We got her to agree to go to inpatient treatment. Hope it works. Like I've said, sober she is a bright and kind and stand-up individual who I love to be around.

It was really weird. Like half an hour before we left to go to the intervention, she called my wife very apologetic and embarrassed, asking her to help sort out something she couldn't remember from her last binge. So she was already in a frame of mind where she knew that her drug abuse was affecting us.

Thanks everyone for letting me vent to yall.

thread is for venting! feel free to shout and moan whenever you feel it coming out.

so glad it went well. i'm sure she's still gonna have tough moments but that initial *oh shit* moment is a huge fucking step and it sounds like it could have been successful.

That's so awesome, so happy for you and your family

yeah sincere congrats for you!! I really hope this is the first step to a steady path towards emancipation from addiction. Do keep us updated!

God bless yr MIL and all others and their folks who need to get well here.

That's great news. Really happy for you and your family.

I agree it is v good that your MIL is starting down that road to recovery. Just remember that relapse is extremely common, even for addicts who are eventually successful in cleaning up. If it happens, just take it as a normal piece of the process and try not to be too miserable over it. Addicts have poor balance and often "fall down" when they start to practise self-control. Good luck to you all.

Thanks all. No doubt that this is a step. A pretty serious one, but I have no illusions about potential for relapse. But hopefully this'll help her establish a better path than say, going to three NA meetings and deciding "I'll take it from here!"

all the best for you and your MIL beachville...it's a postive step!

and much <3 for any other ilxors ITT wrestling with this.

My brother has taken up the habit of drinking too much. He is a former alcoholic. He did that with MY help, and I am an unrepentant drinker.

So... I gave him booze over the holidays. My parents separated because of alcohol. I mean she thinks HE was an alcoholic (he wasn't). Personally I think it is their fear of drink that exacerbates this condition.

I don't need another family blow-up about liquor. I think my brother's problem isn't the liquor but his dissatisfaction and he needs to fix THAT. AA just doesn't work for a lot of people.

dealing with dissatisfaction in the family.

ok but dude giving a 'former' alcohlic booze is never going to help things. whether you think you know the cause of something, giving them the thing they have shown signs of being addicted to isn't going to be the action that stops the dissatisfaction or deals with the history at the root of it all.

you are correct, but! dnftt, alas

what does dnftt mean?

do not feed the troll

while i don't necessarily doubt mt. cleaners' issues, you shouldn't take them at face value either

^^

coughing to conceal the sound of opening a can isn't a good sign is it?

oh hoo rah, my aunt (who I never talk to) just called to tell my that my mom (who lives in south dakota; I'm in CA) was just arrested for what apparently is her 3rd DUI. I knew she had 1 DUI but the second one is news to me (apparently my aunt was told to 'never ever tell' me). Any remaining doubts I had about my mothers alcoholism have eroded. Now, I knew my dad was an alcoholic, and her brother, and her father, and, in fact, I know that I am (but I'm almost six years sober in AA). But my mom, because she doesn't live near me any more, has done a pretty good job of hiding all of this from me (although I guess everyone else in my family knows). Yay!

Obviously nothing I can do about any of this. She's probably going to go to jail for some time, not sure how long. She's 65 but not in ill health.

Shit man. I guess all you can do is be by a phone. Also congrats on the near 6 year chip.

Actually, I agree with mookieproof about not taking people at face value. However my brother really did have a serious problem with alcohol and my mom is just extreme about it, even though she has a cocktail two or three times a year.

That was so long ago I didn't think he'd start drinking to him. I think the job is getting to him.

I think alcoholics should seek help but AA is too controlling for some. When there is drinking at the office, you can't remove yourself from alcohol culture.

bump - how is everybody doing on this thread?

Happy mothers day! Watched whos afraid of virgina woolf, got nostalgic

<3

I guess I've never really experienced serious addiction beyond nicotine but the constant refusal to admit and the sincere-sounding denials of addicts still blow my mind

your addiction gives you something, no matter how low it takes you. in fact, the lower you go, the more important the addiction is, because it's a constant, it's still there when it's helped you lose most of everything else in your life. so you make allowances for it. if you admit to yourself it's a problem you'll have to do something about it too, and it's pretty much your main friend at that point. so as well as losing all your other friends and supports, you'd have to lose your addiction, which is your last friend, your best friend. so you make excuses, and you look the other way.

I haven't stopped thinking about this ^^^ post for days. Is that a commonly used analogy? It seems really apt. The news of Jason Molina's condition, and the fact that we're basically the same age, just makes me think about other people I know/have known. Hard to deal with this stuff from any angle, but NV's explanation really helps to get at the heart of why it's so easy to hold onto this false friend so tightly. Sad.

i was speaking from my own experience, but from talking to a bunch of other people in various stages of recovery of late i think my own experience has a lot of commonalities.

Well you explained it beautifully and in a way that makes a lot of sense imo.

thanks :) i'll let the stupid craving bit of me know.

it's very otm, and sometimes realizing you have an addiction and that it's a horrible addiction makes it worse bc partaking in it becomes the only thing that helps you cope with the shame and guilt of having a horrible addiction. and that just secures it and transforms all the energy you should be using to free yourself into energy used hating yourself. vicious cycles and w/e.

yeah nv that was very well put. LL otm

i draw strength from you guys when i can't go out and see anybody because avoiding pubs. thanks. excuse my scratching at the front door.

hug in the mail for you

Please, no excuse necessary -- I just wanted to say that it was a really thought provoking post and solid answer to the question that preceded it. The more people talk plainly and truthfully about the experience of addiction, maybe more people who don't experience it firsthand will at least understand it a little better.

So with my mother reaching ever lower lows in her addiction, having been brought unconscious to the ER three times in the last four weeks - I'm back on this thread and other forums on alcoholism, still groping for answers and some kind of "solution", even though I know very well there is none and that as much as I'd want, I cannot do anything about this.
Still, from a a public service point of view, I find it hard to accept that people clearly unfit to live alone cannot be forced into a home or something.

Sorry to hear that baaderonixx. My MIL referenced upthread (under a former login) has been doing really well for the last few years and has been committed to her treatment after her month in rehab. For us, it's really gone from dark to light. She's never a monster anymore. That really was just the booze and pills. I don't want to be patronizing and talk about how it's working out for her - I mean, her treatment is her own personal thing, obvs - but things really seem to be working out for the best in our case.

x-post - There were many times I tried to have my mom put in rehab or forcibly detoxed and it's surprisingly hard. I'm sorry to hear this Bad. It's such a hard thing.

are you certain there's no addiction/self harm/mental health avenue here that can be used?

horrible even to ask, but I've been in yr position and my mother's psychiatrist had the ability to act in this type of capacity.

Ireland being Ireland this may well have been nod-and-wink stuff at the time tho, and prob not possible under EU regs, idk.

Yeah I'm just stunned that in this day and age, there doesn't seem to be anything one can do in cases like this. Her GP keeps telling me that since she appears to be functionning whenever she's sober, I would not be able to ask for forced treatment (which also everybody knows does not work)

Also I think at this stage, my mom's cognitive abilities and short term memory are so shot that there's no way she could take the decision to seek treatment. The denial mechanism is so strong that there's no way to even get her to admit that there have been bottles lying around the house or that she's been taken repeatedly to the hospital. Just a complete and utter mental block.

So basically, my only solution for now is to take ever more time off work to stay with her for a week here and there and try to calm things down. This used to give me some respite but now the addiction has gotten so bad that she goes out to buy booze the minute I'm driving back home.
And in the meantime my job situation is getting more and more fragile because of all the "strange" time off I keep asking for at super short notice...

you have to talk to someone at yr workplace, I'd be shocked if there wasn't support in place for you

there is and it's not that I'd be sacked or anything but I can see that now I'm now more and more seen as unreliable and therefore bypassed in assignments - pretty secondary considering my other problems but still just adds to the feeling that I'm fucking up my own life trying to save someone who doesn't wanna be saved.

idk where you're at but talking to yr employers about taking some extended family medical leave etc might be a better option than leaving everyone thinking you are a flake

even if the leave is not available, definitely, definitely make them aware of your sitch asap.

i have no real experience in this area but i really hope that you can find a way through this.