Most interesting British city (that isn't London)

I’ve gone for the biggest population stats I can find and excluded any cities that could be considered part of somewhere else, so apologies to Bradford, Wolverhampton, Croydon and the others that didn’t make it. The cut off’s a bit arbitrary – I set it at about quarter-of-a-million, but included a few others which are either isolated or have some other feature of historical interest. In the case of Derby that’s Brian Clough – David Pleat wasn’t quite enough for Luton.

I put Dublin on the list because: ‘British’ as in British Isles; it was a British city once, anyway; and it’s got a decent chance of winning this. Hey, it’s all the same thing anyway. Cork’s there to keep Dublin company and because it meets the criteria for exceptions, except that I know genuinely not a thing about it – hoping someone might be able to convince me of its interestingness.

Interesting can mean anything you like - history, the people, local culture, cuisine(!), a nice place to go on holiday. I don't mind, I just want to hear about anything that makes these places good. Or awful.

David Pleat wasn’t quite enough for Luton

Luton has lots of other interesting things to recommend it, you know. There's the Arndale Centre, and the Galaxy Entertainment Complex, and the racial tension.

I've visited 3 of these - none for more than about 24 hours - and I live in the UK. I suppose exploring the Uk is something to do in retirement, if I can afford the train fares by then.

I've lived in two, and visited eleven of the others. Glasgow wins by default (though it is great in its own way, I have become a bit jaded about it over the years). Have had good nights out in Cardiff, Manchester and Edinburgh though.

Portsmouth/Southampton

uh, when did this happen?!

Well, it didn't actually happen, but there were plans to classify them as a single urban area (called Solent City or South Hampshire, or something like that) in the 70s. I gather that they're pretty close in geographical terms, if not in sentiment.

it's ok, they're both boring as hell

Think of the history then: the Normandy Invasion Force set out from Portsmouth, and Craig David's from Southampton

not bournemouth, not cardiff

Where's Leicester you fucking bastard?

I suppose exploring the Uk is something to do in retirement

Also this is crazy talk.

So anyway I'm boycotting this poll.

Of the ones I have visited: Edinburgh.

I have been to 16 of these (some of them very briefly or a long time ago, however) but only really know 3 or 4 of them well enough to vote. Or maybe "interesting" means having some selling point that would leap out at me even about the ones I don't really know.

about quarter-of-a-million, but included a few others which are either isolated or have some other feature of historical interest

You could almost argue that all the small ones have some historical feature, having been made cities in medieval times for having a cathedral or big pompous university thing (no Wells, no credibility! Er, OK, maybe Bath or Canterbury though...)

There's a clear winner here folks, and in true Derren Brown style I shall now insert some subtle subliminal messages.

Is it Newcastle, Huey?

Strange but true: when I was 14 my family's summer holiday was two nights in Stoke and two nights in Sheffield.

There are some terrible, terrible cities on this list, but also some great ones. The question is rilly whether I feel the need to represent for my adopted home town or for somewhere boringly obvious.

Anybody who votes Derby or Stoke is fucking high btw.

Visited at least 21 of these, am I a winner? Voting for Edinburgh, 'cause.

All the list, except Belfast, Dublin, Cork, (theme there?)

Derby (can't remember, might have), Aberdeen.

OK, 30 on the list, so I have 25.

Where's Leicester you fucking bastard?

Aw no, that's a terrible typing mistake on my part - I have Leicester (330,574) right in the middle of my shortlist as well. It was even the real reason for having Derby, in that I didn't feel I could exclude it when Nottingham, Leicester and Coventry all made it. Very sorry.

Sheffield vs Oxford vs Manchester vs Liverpool vs Glasgow vs Edinburgh vs Bristol for me. Can't really make a decision out of that lot.

Cambridge is disqualified for having virtually nothing of interest that doesn't revolve around the university - Oxford at least feels like a real place.

Also wtf is Dublin doing in here?

Winning by about 20 votes is my guess.

Tell you what, I'll include Leicester in the playoff between London and the winner here. London v Leicester v Teesside.

Might as well include Rockall while you're on then.

Cambridge & Norwich on the list but not York? really?

I've gone for adopted hometown loyalty here.

I voted for Hull cos yeah I love this city.

Voted for Bristol but my feeling for it is more "least boring and bad British city"

Sheffield and maybe Nottingham are the only non-coastal cities I could vote for in good conscience, altho I'm still fond of Birmingham.

I just need someone to complain about Sunderland now, please.

where is sunderland, you bastard

Treating Bradford as part of Leeds or Wolverhampton as part of Brum is scandalous, btw.

Like Wolverhampton could win this thing on their own.

Yeah but it's not as if most of these have a cat in hell's chance, I just think individual places ought to be acknowledged. Wouldn't vote for Wolverhampton, but wd def. vote Bradford over Leeds for example.

I put Dublin on the list because: ‘British’ as in British Isles;

Does this make Irish people British then?

Dublin's not really expecting to win, it's just happy to be there. If it gets a few votes it'll be off to Disneyland and then off to take Harry's Challenge afterwards.

Yeah but it's not as if most of these have a cat in hell's chance, I just think individual places ought to be acknowledged. Wouldn't vote for Wolverhampton, but wd def. vote Bradford over Leeds for example.

― Halt! Fergiezeit (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 23 September 2009 09:10

Having lived in both I'm really curious why you would choose Bradford over Leeds

Old-fashioned bias against gentrification, mostly.

would u really vote bradford though?

No, but it'd be above Leeds if I had a long list.

Sheffield and maybe Nottingham are the only non-coastal cities I could vote for in good conscience

Your cheque's in the post, Noodle.

Adopted home town loyalties aside, I have no hesitation in voting for Birmingham. I love Birmingham, I do.

I've always like Nottingham tho mike, living in the flattest city in the world makes me appreciate an appropriate degree of contour in other places.

I like Sheffield for the same reasons.

(as an aside ... I didn't learn how to do a hill-start until about a year after passing my driving test)

Cork has phenomenal food and an amazing indoor market right downtown near the river but it's, er, not quite in Britain is it?

Matt DC I don't know how you imagine Oxford is as "interesting" as Glasgow.

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We have a family joke about "Hull legs" when confronted with walking uphill anywhere else.

Matt DC I don't know how you imagine Oxford is as "interesting" as Glasgow.

― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, September 23, 2009 10:53 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

hmm, gee, i don't know.

I'm coming to love those 'motorways ploughed through the city centre' since I read a piece eulogising that crazy stretch of the M8 through central Glasgow. It's quite an experience. Birmingham scores high here too.

Newcastle too!

reading someone wank about it is probably worse than living with it but not much

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In the end I voted Aberdeen because it is the one city in the UK that I have been to that neither looks nor feels like it is part of Britain, which makes it alien, weird and, uh, interesting.

xp to NV, why 1982? The Inspiral Carpets didn't get going until 1983.

Aberdeen deserves it's vote for Footdee which is at the very least quite interesting. Also awesome windswept beach virtually empty for most of the year.

Virtually empty because fucking freezing!

I've wanted to visit Aberdeen since I was a kid and I read the entry at the beginning of the Children's Britannica. Also lol background radiation, yes?

I once walked along Aberdeen beach in April and the cold was incredible, but I still loved it. I lay down in the dunes in my huge overcoat and wooly hat and watched the world go by (the world being, in this instance, one man and a dog). The huge blocks of flats you can see on the other side of the road only add to the sense of otherworld-ness.

I once got sunburn in Aberdeen in April.

Also lol background radiation, yes?

Some of my favourite places are near nuclear power stations, Dungeness, Thorpeness...maybe not Sellafield.

Well nuclear power stations tended to get built in out of the way places hence wild picturesqeness I guess. But my understanding re: Aberdeen is that granite tends to kick out a lot of radiation?

Yes, are there any nuclear power stations near Aberdeen?

Not unless they're keeping it secret.

And, of course, in terms of gaiety, joie de vivre and the general warmth and friendliness of its citizens, Aberdeen makes Edinburgh seem like Rio in carnival time

speaking as a misanthrope i can dig that

many x-posts

hanging on to a faded cultural indie cache that really finished about 1992

There is undoubtedly still a rich vein of professional Mancunians who will give the rallying cry of Roses/Inspirals/Mondays until the grave (and they're often the ones who get the most represented in the media), but show me another city with an equivalent musical heritage where this kind of trading on former glories doesn't exist.

Beyond the clichés there's a shedload of good bars, brilliant pubs, and decent clubs that you'll never hear Fools Gold in. There's also a proper range of gig venues so Manchester very rarely gets missed off tour dates. And there's almost 100,000 students here, so there's masses of smaller events and nights that take place outside the city centre.

In terms of "proper" culture, I think we do pretty well: Some excellent galleries, good theatres, nice architecture (often shoulder to shoulder with tat, I'll admit), plus this year's Manchester International Festival had a superb programme.

All in all, I think "shit" doesn't really do the place justice. But I am, admittedly, totally biased. This was a good poll though, and some great stuff on this thread.

"Shit" was overstepping the mark I agree, but as an outsider to both I don't think it's a patch on Liverpool. Also I'm bitter cos the Dutch Pancake House has gone.

hanging on to a faded cultural indie cache that really finished about 1992

Whereas Liverpudlians are famed for looking forward and never dwelling on the past

Liverpudlian rose-tinted glasses seem more comical and therefore more ignorable.

Can't disagree with you there

who was the mystery hull voter then?

also calling Manchester shit is so wrong when Leeds exists.

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I repped for Liverpool upthread, which in some areas of M/cr would have me horse-whipped through the streets.

If you ever come back, and if you want a dining experience almost as peculiar as the DPH then check out the Armenian Taverna some time.

Hull voters = you?, me + a.n. other

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OK just checked out the Armenian Taverna menu and anywhere that serves "Chef's Lavish Bread" needs visiting.

Also some bastard bulldozed Tommy Ducks = Madchester why you break heart?

I get the impression that Manchester is close to the kind of critical mass that turns a city into an exciting destination for its modern self, rather than for e.g. historical reasons. Like Dublin managed about a decade ago, and Barcelona a little before that. Things like party conferences and the bbc, while dull in themselves, are pointers in that direction. Not sure what kind of exciting centre that'd be exactly, probably not a tourist one.

If we're talking interesting Armenian restaurants maybe someone could tell me if the one in Edinburgh (mentioned in this thread)(and which I now learn is called Armenian Aghtamar Lake Van Monastery in Exile) is still going? Because that is one interesting place.

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Ismael, you make a very interesting and valid point there. Part of the reason it's taken so long to cast off the Madchester tag (other than the old guard here still chuntering on about it) is that I don't think M/cr reveals much of what makes it special on first impressions - the city centre is mainly unlovely to look at, the weather *is* usually pretty overcast (thanks to The Pennines), and for a few years the cultural direction felt vague at best. None of this helps to make it a tourist destination as such, and frankly I don't think the place really needs casual tourists - the shops, restaurants and bars are absolutely hammered at all times already.

Being optimistic, I'd hope that investment and effort goes towards making it more of a cultural destination. The MIF was a critical and (crucially) a commercial success - it'll be interesting to see whether the further influx of media people with the BBC expansion means that this success is built on.

I don't think M/cr reveals much of what makes it special on first impressions

This is true of so many UK towns and cities. You just have to make a bit of effort (or in the case of Manchester go and have a look at the amazing town hall).

This result pleases me. That stretch of the M8 can be jolly useful for hopping on and off of, by the way. Admittedly it depends on the traffic.

That armenian taverna looks great! Never noticed it. Manchester's incoherence is a plus in terms of interest at least. I would be surprised if a visitor was wowed by Manchester, but its got a weird sort of relaxed comfort about it & the people are great.

you should have grown a pair and included London on this, the south has had a shit showing here.

London gets enough attention, I can buy any newspaper any day of the week if I want to hear about London minutiae. I just wanted reasons why all these other places are good, or at least interesting in their own right. If I had included it, pretty sure we wouldn't have ended up talking Norwich (not that we did anyway). I am surprised Brighton didn't do a bit better though, I'd've thought it would pick up a few London proxy votes.

I'm pretty happy with the way it turned out. Other than Leicester, I should have included York - I forgot that it's an important religious place (transport as well I think). Possibly Exeter too, but going by the showings of Plymouth and Bournemouth people aren't that into that part of the world. Maybe one day, if I ever get round to doing that winner v London runoff.

I ought to have called it 'British & Irish cities' too - I knew people would get a bit annoyed, but I didn't think it'd actually make people change their votes. 3 for Dublin is all wrong.

Exeter looked pretty interesting on our brief 2 hour visit in the pissing rain last month.

I don't think that setting aside Lanarkshire Zone and Paisley from the definition of "Glasgow" makes much difference to Glasgow's interestingness, as (broadly speaking) Lanarkshire and Paisley are pretty much a perfect example of post-industrial collapse, though the former could be interesting to someone keen on the study of religious bigotry (don't know much abt Paisley on that score).

When it comes to bigotry and sectarianism I certainly wouldn't bracket Paisley with the likes of Lanarkshire. Paisley's more like Glasgow, perhaps because there's more Catholics? Or just less of a smalltown mentality?

Plenty of ppl love the southwest just not so much for its cities (besides Bristol). York is/has been more interesting than most of these cities, one of the best tourist destinations I think. I would be curious how London would have changed it.

Well done to Glasgow!

In an earlier post I commented that there were trainers on telephone lines in Anfield, well I saw this interesting video on the phenomenon in New York:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/8334137.stm

I still contend that this is not a phenomenon. There was a pair of trainers on a wire outside my primary school. There is a pair of trainers on a wire at the end of my street right now. I have seen pairs of trainers on wires regularly in the intervening years. I think it's just that many people don't look up much.

When we're done with this, can we investigate single shoes lying on the sides of motorways?

Ah, New York looks great in that film. It's true that people don't look up much though. I was out for a walk last week and was taking photos of fallen leaves when I was startled by a shout from above. It was a teenager perched on a branch high above me. He was waiting to ambush his brother and I was getting in the way. For all I know, I might be spoiling aerial high jinks every time I leave the house.

People don't look above shop fronts. It's a real pity because they're missing out on the history of the place. Especially true in London, but pretty much every city as well. Even Leicester.

That's quite a good little film in that it shows that the sneakers mean pretty much anything you want them to mean.

I like the vestigal adverts you see sometimes, painted high on gables. They seem ancient, Edwardian or Victorian even. I wonder how the paint has endured so long?

Oh yeah, I love that too.

People don't look above shop fronts.

Real talk. There's a lot of spectacular architectural history going on on the second storey of high street shops that a lot of people never notice.

Glasgow mostly gets good if you look up. I used to work across from an amazing building that had lovely detailing that I would hazard a decent wodge of cash on no-one actually ever noticing (I was on the third floor of the building, the good stuff in the opposite building was directly across from me). I'd walked past it for years and never really looked myself, and I love old Glasgow buildings!

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/42/123339393_25cde55a1e.jpg?v=0

http://www.glasgowguide.co.uk/GG-ORG/ez/glasgow_clydeport1a.jpg

Nice. It disappoints me that modern buildings (the ones I notice anyway) seem to be deliberately featureless, and often on an inhuman scale. Modern business districts are not going to be interesting places to discover in a century's time.

The building I used to work in, across from that nice one, looks like this :-(

http://www.baesystems.com/static/bae_cimg_pes_atlanticquay_latestReleased_bae_cimg_pes_atlanticquay_Web.jpg

I wonder how the paint has endured so long?

Lead?

@NedTrifle Yes, Aghtamar Lake Van Monastery is still going! One of my pals booked a table last November. Here's the review so you know what to expect :) http://www.jemmaeatworld.com/2011/08/aghtamar-lake-van-monastery-in-exile/