Jonathan Meades c/d?

Anyone else watching his series on Scotland, Off Kilter, 3rd episode now airing on BBC4?

Predictably pseudy (even more so in this series?), but always interesting, and he manages to do good things with the travelogue format. His approach reminds me of Patrick Keiller, with the big difference that the documentary maker is front centre rather than absent.

All time indestrutible classic. You'll learn more form watching his programmes than travelling.

He just coined the word 'blingstead' for footballers' homes.

also good to hear that Calder books were funded by drink

He also reminds me of Iain Sinclair, if he (Sinclair) was any good on TV.

All time fave Meades moment: him skipping down the beach in his trademark suit throwing a beach ball around outside of the enormous, deserted Nazi-built holiday camp on the Baltic coast.

Worth noting he's probably Britain's best architectural critic, at least to my limited knowledge.

Massive classic, the Isle of Rust had visionary moments and I'm very impressed by his ability to pull of authoritative and compelling rambling, but really it's just because he's excellent at thinking.

It also struck me that he's a very good example of a British public intellectual, a supposedly rare breed.

This guy is never not hugely classic.

Surprisingly bracing to find someone speaking in multi-clausal sentences on telly these days, and I do always enjoy his shows, but watching the Rust episode last night I was turned off once more by his staggering condescension. And after the first two or three times, could have done with slightly fewer tirades against the "infantile delusion" of faith.

I know he's a card-carrying humanist so I think this tone comes with the territory. But don't get him started on vegetarians, Stevie.

I really, really like him though. And I've got his phone number. (/Suzy)

Watching the first episode of his series on France. Really excellent so far. Did anyone else see it when it first aired?

No, but saw it was on. Will watch it this weekend; thanks for the reminder.

I enjoyed it, although i enjoy pretty much everything he does. He did seem to be trolling a little hard at points. Although it was part of an attempt to undermine the received view of history, and show how much of a morally grey area post-war French politics was, the end result was a show that came across as much more sympathetic to the OAS than the Algerian separatists.

The throwaway attacks on human rights law and child-centred learning lacked the humour you normally get when he's being deliberately provocative. It was good, though.

Yeah, agree almost entirely with that view. Still a great show, but I found some of the inaccuracies-for-the-sake-of-a-troll to be more grating than usual.

Massive classic, the Isle of Rust had visionary moments and I'm very impressed by his ability to pull of authoritative and compelling rambling, but really it's just because he's excellent at thinking.

― ogmor, Thursday, September 24, 2009 12:00 AM (2 years ago)

this is probably his single best film

yeah, it lacked that dispassionate, ornate curiosity and enjoyment of the whimsical sidetrack that's made other things he's so appealing. This was comparatively didactic - possibly because he feels very strongly about his adopted homeland?

Still good to see him back on the television tho. As I was saying at the Book FAP earlier this week, it's nice to see Someone interested in art and architecture and history given space to breathe, rather than the repetitive axes of interpretation of Newsnight Review, say, or rather facile and ever-repeated representations of post-war Britain and Europe.

xpost, yes, it's v good. Liked the one about his father and also the two-part North very much. But I thought all three about Scotland were excellent as well.

Caught up with the final two episodes in the series. Flashes of interesting material, lots of apologism for French colonialism. Again, didn't seem to have the usual wit.

Apparently the BBC issued a warning prior to broadcast saying that the show contained views that people may find objectionable - which i think must be a first for a straight-to-camera video essay.

the brandwagon... mindblowing. what a brain.

until he talks about anything you actually have any specialist knowledge of

a lot of my friends who are architects are quite big fans. but yeah i can sort of imagine that might be true.

he reminds me of Clive James: he can be really funny but it seems to me there is an undercurrent of received opinion there that is nothing to do with the angle of pediment, and nearer to Jeremy Clarkson than Iain Sinclair.

he is a million times more interesting than clive james and a thousand times more interesting than jeremy clarkson

the only time i detect clarkson is the vegetarian show, but he's still far more interesting. the amount of thoughts and ideas in one show is incredible, even if you don't agree with his central thrust he crams huge amounts of detail into each sentence, i find myself replaying bits in the same way you'd reread a particularly good paragraph in a book.

I guess my problem is that, after watching a lot of his show over the years - and, yes, for me I find him interesting enough to have done that - I find I really, really don't agree with his central thrust

namely?

seems to me that he's a Tory, when all is said and done

he certainly has his favourite tropes, which can get tiresome enough (i think varg vikerness would tire of his compulsive hatred of abrahamism)

yes i suspect so, but i think he covers ground between a sort of boorish libertinist toryism and a contempt for any sort of british rationalist politics

he is more sanguine about dirigisme, but then the french are more capable of being civilized

type i) is more questionable imo because it infects his esthetic sense, always on the side of the full blooded and demonstrative over the sotto voce or implicit

Hey: http://thequietus.com/articles/10502-jonathan-meades-interview

wow cool. I've been meaning to read his new book, and also to get this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Jonathan-Meades-Collection-DVD/dp/B001110H14

enjoyed the interview a lot.

me too, it was great; stuff on his acid-pioneer civil servant science friend totally fascinating, would read more about that scene.

yeah really good. He seems much warmer in the context of an interview- not playing the character "Jonathan Meades" I suppose.

right exactly - his latest lrb bit is fine, very Meades, but it's nice to read him looser.

funny that that guy was 30 years his senior, when he was 12 or whatever?

wow cool. I've been meaning to read his new book, and also to get this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Jonathan-Meades-Collection-DVD/dp/B001110H14

― Arvo Pärt Chimp (Neil S), Monday, October 29, 2012 10:11 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark

Brothers got me that DVD for Christmas last year. It's kind of patchy, and everything's p much available on the extraordinarily extensive youtube collection.

But it is worth it for North alone, which I think is a fantastic double parter.

Looking forward to reading the interview.

I think they're the only ones I've seen on that DVD. His recent series on France, as discussed upthread, is also excellent IMO.

Excellent interview. Mostly doesn't comment on the music, not sure what its doing there? And the bit about Medway Towns *shudder*

lol@

Did you know Peter Christopherson?

JM: Yes, I did. What did he call himself? Scrawny or something…

the medway towns are miserable miserable places

yeah the music thing was weird... they weren't particularly interesting choices, and he didn't comment on them anyway. there wasn't a mention of what its purpose was nor what reaction he did or didn't give. it actually felt like a good interview despite slightly bad questions, without slating the interviewer.

Exchanged a few emails with the great man a few years back; we were having trouble researching some of his more obscure references for the subtitles on the DVD boxset. Turns out they were in-jokes... an area of Aberdeen actually being a corruption of a production assistant's name, etc.

obviously the music was supposed to be a structuring device but maybe doran had the music along as some sort of morale booster or psychic shield or something too. besides, it did spark off a couple of interesting tangents. reads like he didn't really need it though and he semi-abandoned it when he realised he wasn't going to get put through the mincer

I received the Jonathan Meades Collection for Christmas. Currently watching the rather excellent episode on Belgium.

1. jelous
2. The Belgium episode is one of my favourites.

I very much enjoyed it, the penguin dude and thrush counting were both particularly bizarre.

the bits of his book I read were very good and exactly what you'd expect. the scripts for his shows seem like an odd inclusion though

New show about Essex on BBC4 next week!
http://rationalist.org.uk/4020/the-joy-of-essex

Sounds thematically similar to the one he did on the Fenlands some time ago. He's still on typical form, by the sounds of it!

dis ting is on now

enjoyed that, esp as an ex frinton resident

can't question JM's Goal setting, achievement orientation, and intrinsic motivation here.

stoked for the madness

xxp

slight difference in thst Meades is clever

yeah but pomposity - meades’ cookery book p self-satisfied.

shit recipes as well! I'll start boiling bones and Parmesan rinds as an alternative to eating bark ftr!

but still love him.

This is so dated and banal. It could have been made twenty years ago.

forgot it was on, shit is it really that bad?

It’s on iPlayer.

I love Meades but this is pretty much a hodgepodge of Dad opinions (footballers have stupid hair, modern art is rubbish, things were better when people on tv enunciated properly, etc) that makes no real attempt to engage with the 21st century.

idk, plenty of people seem to have liked it so maybe I am a grouch but it was enormously disappointing.

business jargon is bad is also like a 90s bad comedian level type of thing

I've enjoyed bits of this tbh, but when he said Duchamp was a bad joke then, that get's worse with the re-telling - that's tired old great great granddad opinions ffs!

It's easy to show a load of wank modern-art to back up a shit opinion.

Dressing himself up as a Benny, too.

The further he gets from architecture, the more he becomes a "rugged individualist" has often been a feature of his work. But not in a good way at all on this one - in places.

The idea he seemed most interested in is the one he outlined in the Radio Times - that RP is a tool of self-improvement and homogenisation is a positive thing - which has echoes of his challop about how good it was for Algerian children under occupation to be rote taught obscure facts about the amount of rainfall in different parts of France with a view to making them more French and therefore more likely to succeed, etc. That could have made a provocative hour of television but the material obviously didn’t stretch that far.

His mid 20th century modern art challops might have been intended to wind up certain types of pseud arseholes, but that doesn't stop it being really played out and wrong willful philistinism.

when I say mid 20th c, I sort of meant they probably would have passed as mainstream opinions back then.

In music terms what he did would be like trash-talking John Cage and then showing footage of britpop arseholes to back up his prejudices.

was looking forward to iplayering this, maybe I'll pass :(

I bet he could be very witty + funny on footballing dimwits with tribal tattoos, but he wasn't in this and also perhaps it is a bit of a shooting fish exercise for a heavyweight like him.

which has echoes of his challop about how good it was for Algerian children under occupation to be rote taught obscure facts about the amount of rainfall in different parts of France with a view to making them more French and therefore more likely to succeed, etc.

I couldn't get through his show on France. He diagnoses it as suffering from self-hatred (FRANCE, of all countries!) and talks about a dude who started off as a terrorist and ended up a professor in women's studies "ironically, since most of the victims of the bomb he planted were women". There aren't enough eyerolls in the world.

If you're hunting something architectural to watch from lockdown, an anonymous hero uploaded almost every Jonathan Meades documentary here: https://t.co/SqtJxAfMQ6 - I wrote about Meades during my MA, so I might share some choice transcribed quotes and screenshots below pic.twitter.com/Vxi6gs7jgR

— MatthewLloydRoberts (@MatthewLloydR) March 31, 2020

Somebody linked it on another thread. Great stuff.

Scratching a similar Nairn-Meades itch but happening right now, there's this fellow, Dan Cummings, a similar mix of knowing, irritating, funny and interesting: http://www.youtube.com/user/CummingsYourWay/videos

He and his mate appear to be making these films and lobbing them on youtube. I hadn't come across him before this morning but it looks like he's been doing this a while.

Content warning: Black Country.

That's not a warning that's a recommendation

Quite so. But mostly I was trying to get your attention NV. The Hull episode's pretty good also.

three quick observations:

a) shame on you for making me want to go down to the pier when i can't
b) i think he's very knowingly riffing on Meades especially
c) these look brilliant!

pub montage at the end of the Hull ep is particularly cruel

good shout Tim, never seen a Youtube address so many of my interests in one go :D

Sorry. Agree (to what extent he’s knowingly Nairning it up also, I couldn’t say, could be both, couldn’t be Nairn only I think). Glad you’re enjoying them.

he obv doesn't like Wessies or at least he seems to have a preference for the more picturesque parts of Yorkshire. Mind you I think Nairn was driven to despair in Hudds and probably had an extra ten pints at dinnertime to fortify himself against the ugliness of such a heathen shithole, until Halifax cheered him up!

i am going on such a crawl if there's anywhere left after lockdown ends

no apologies necessary, these lads are a real find

The new Jonathan Meades book is out today from @unbounders. An incredible 900+ pages of his collected essays. I haven't even got past the dedication and I'm already laughing. #pedroandrickycomesagain #jonathanmeades pic.twitter.com/SH7uSD2FG1

— Alex Boyd (@AlexBoyd) March 8, 2021

Nice interview of a book I'd like to get hold of.

https://thequietus.com/articles/29856-jonathan-meades-pedro-and-ricky-come-again-owen-hatherley-interview

Meades v much the right-winger it's ok to like amongst leftist types, eh?

Pretty funny to see Unbound retweet enthusiastic reviews of this book that are all "this man warned us about the woke!"

How are you defining right-wing here? There are a lot of edgelordy comments in this, true.

Actually he comes across as leftier in this interview than I'd previously known him to be - there's a strong love of individualism in his thinking on architecture, thus the love of Belgium, and the complete contempt for any urban planners who thought people's needs and preferences should be taken into account.

Biggest challop in this interview so far is that France takes anti-semitism more seriously than the UK, a totally baffling statement to me both from my experience with the UK and with France.

He's great tho don't get me wrong!

His last couple of documentaries have displayed some pretty clear right-wing sympathies at points, iirc, but he's generally hard to pin down ideologically.

When he did the Yorkshire section of Nairn's Journeys, he, in his own words, "bumped into" the great bluesman Champion Jack Dupree whilst doing a section of the programme in Halifax. The two got on rather well and maintained a close correspondence almost right up to his own death.

very interesting detail from the Ian Nairn wiki!

I think being a restaurant critic at some point almost guarantees you are going to have picked up some tedious edgelord tendencies.

Further to the question of his being right wing: remembered the other day that his programme on France is some truly shameful stuff. Lots of sympathy for the soldiers of the Algerian conflict who went into far right terrorism, entirely unhinged portrait of France (France!) as a self-hating country where political correctness has gone mad.

that... doesn't sound great. Was this a recent show?

No, just popped into my mind the other day for some reason. It was already archived on youtube when I started watching it, probably close to a decade ago. Lemme check, it's from 2012.

Fragments of an Arbitrary Encyclopaedia ?

I watched this recently too and some of his stuff about Algeria struck me as a bit ripe, albeit that if his claims of a massacre of French loyalists are even half-true then sympathy is more understandable

I forget the politically-correct riffing but every time I do watch one of his (generally excellent) programmes there's always a Provocative Bit

(or if it's the Essex one (which I still enjoy), Several Provocative Bits lol)

I think that's the one yeah calz. Made me angry enough to not check out the other eps.

Seem to remember one quip was abt a dude who'd been responsible for a pro-independence terrorist attack in Algeria that killed several women ending up as a women's studies professor, YoU CoUlDn'T mAke It uP!

The other episodes are good tbf. One of them is all about how weirdly American-aspiring France is

I would lay money on him being a covidiot