James Ellroy

Hard to choose between The Big Nowhere or LA Confidential. The staccato style got a bit much for me from White Jazz onwards.

american tabloid

My Dark Places is amazing too. It vies with Klaus Kinski's for the title of most WTF autobiography ever.

Am just finishing the last 150 pages of LA Confidential, my first Ellroy. Really feeling this shit. DOGTITS are you saying he gets MORE staccato in the novels after this?

Have a copy of Big Nowhere on the shelf too, will probably read that or White Jazz next.

American Tabloid, not really close (most of the other books aren't actually that good--Cold Six Thousand and White Jazz.) My Dark Places is kind of its own thing, but obv quite good at what it is. Don't rate anything pre-Nowhere.

ahem--Cold Six Thousand and White Jazz particularly are meh.

I suspect that's right. I've attempted quite a few of these but The Big Nowhere is the only one that stuck, so voting for it. From the sounds of it, only LA Xonfidential and maybe My Dark Places deserve a second chance.

The Big Nowhere is really good, by the way, I'm not damning it with faint praise. The others required concentration that I don't have, even for simple things like just working out who's talking at any given time.

American Tabloid way out in front here and one that I've gone back to a couple times over the years.

Very recent interview with him here: http://zocalopublicsquare.org/full_video_2009.php?event_id=336 - worth checking out.

Big Nowhere and LA Confidential are basically the same book with just slightly different characters but the same basic plots and subplots so if like one you'll probably like the other. Actually all four of the "LA Quartet" are pretty much the same book, but White Jazz is 1st person and just generally weaker and Black Dahlia is slightly less all over the place and not any better for it cuz it's frankly completely silly (although not as silly as the movie.)

ahem--Cold Six Thousand and White Jazz particularly are meh.

This is so wrong it hurts. Admittedly I never got into White Jazz at all, but The Cold Six Thousand is the dude at his best, by far. He's such an amazing stylist and TC600 is the purest distillation of it - honestly I love the staccato. I read it described somewhere as the only novel ever to be written in morse code. Love it.

I've been sitting on a copy of The Big Nowhere for a few years now. Maybe its time to put it at the top of my list. I can't fairly vote in this poll b/c all I've read of his is The Black Dahlia, which I liked quite a bit & Because the Night (ugh, not so much). But yeah, someday I'll get around to the rest of the LA quartet. My Dark Places, as well, possibly..

American Tabloid or My Dark Places. I understand people being put off by the staccato telegraph style of the later books but I think it's funny.

key to enjoying Ellroy (for me) is not taking him too seriously. well, his memoir-writing (like My Dark Places) is deadly serious but the novels have become increasingly over-the-top.

Probably The Big Nowhere. The silliness, the telegraphese and the politics eventually forced me off the train with Elroy. The comic strip description of the Bay of Pigs in American Tabloid (I think) was a shark jumping moment - "C'mon, a chainsaw?, I'm too old to listen to this nonsense . . "

Still, he's an amazing writer when he's really on, and his readings are hilarious - if you get a chance to see him live, don't miss it. I should really see Black Dahlia sometime, though I can see how De Palma and Elroy would bring out the worst in each other.

do not see the black dahlia, it's genuinely awful. the story is at its core ridiculous, but i think ellroy executed it pretty amazingly, mixing in his nuttiness with the actual case pretty nicely. de palma gave in to his hack tendencies 100% on that one. i have a couple of friends who rep for it, but i think that's because they thought it was a comedy. there are a few de palma adherents who love it, but they're simply wrong.

worst novel on this list, out of what i've read, is killer on the road. pretty awful.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

we're moving so I was cleaning out the library and opted to get rid of most of my paperback Ellroy stuff. Not that they aren't good/great, but seriously am I ever gonna slog through all of The Big Nowhere again? Not likely. I did keep American Tabloid though. That one sticks out as having the most humor/resonance to me. Although obviously his masterpiece is the Black Dahlia

Actually all four of the "LA Quartet" are pretty much the same book,

^^^this

kinda disappointed he stopped following the chronology with his set of characters (up through the Cold Six Thousand they're all connected going back to the Black Dahlia) cuz I was thinking Ellroy+70/80s would be really entertaining.

I read Clandestine in a day a few weeks ago so let'sgive that a vote

and when I say the Black Dahlia is his masterpiece its mostly because that's where he really came into his own as a stylist and basically laid down the template for all his subsequent work, in addition to it obviously being a subject very close to his heart (cf My Dark Places). American Tabloid is probably better written/constructed, but the Dahlia has this level of emotional intensity (combined with ridiculously convoluted noir and a beautiful rendering of LA) that he never really matched again.

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(xpost) I voted White Jazz, similarly I read it in two evenings.

there are a few de palma adherents who love it

de palma stans are the worst

Voted My Dark Places, an amazing book.

de palma stans are the worst

given his shit-to-shinola ratio it is kind of baffling

In 2008, Daily Variety reported that HBO, along with Tom Hanks's production company, Playtone, were developing Tabloid and Six-Thousand (and, presumably after publication, Blood's a Rover) for either a mini-series or ongoing series.[3] Screenwriter Kirk Ellis is drafting a screenplay for the potential series.

are you saying he gets MORE staccato in the novels after this?

the prose style in The Cold 6000 is pretty insane. it's like 800 pages of three-word sentences.

I've only read three and would probably rate them Black Dahlia >>> Cold Six Thousand >>>>>>>>>> Brown's Requiem

I'll get to My Dark Places eventually, my wife read it and it's on the shelf

"given his shit-to-shinola ratio it is kind of baffling"

His shits got a lot of personality though.

yeah. Phantom of the Paradise is full of personality, but its mostly a mess as a movie (always been shocked/disappointed that Paul Williams' couldn't come up with better songs for that one)

(up through the Cold Six Thousand they're all connected going back to the Black Dahlia)

the connections go back earlier than than that!

Shakey OTM re masterpiece and reasoning thereof

and when I say the Black Dahlia is his masterpiece its mostly because that's where he really came into his own as a stylist and basically laid down the template for all his subsequent work, in addition to it obviously being a subject very close to his heart (cf My Dark Places). American Tabloid is probably better written/constructed, but the Dahlia has this level of emotional intensity (combined with ridiculously convoluted noir and a beautiful rendering of LA) that he never really matched again.

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― unobtaintium (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, December 7, 2009 4:08 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark

surprised that there wasn't more black dahlia love upthread. that's my favorite by a long shot, and perhaps not coincidentally the point where i came aboard. shakey's otm about BD having an emotional intensity and resonance that isn't absent in his subsequent novels, but isn't quite as white-knuckle riveting, either. while it's as "ridiculously convoluted" as what came after, the character arc(s) are relatable & involving enough to make navigating the labyrinth a happy chore.

that's more-or-less true of the big nowhere and l.a. confidential, too, but by the end of LAC, i was definitely starting to get a bit tired of the relentlessly hectoring tone and endless wheels within wheels politics. felt like being lectured about the "dark heart of humanity that NO ONE WANTS TO LOOK AT, SEE?!?" not saying he's wrong to present the world a certain way, but my supply of interest dwindled. and white jazz killed me quick.

always meant to read my dark places. might reignite my interest in the fiction. and brian depalma is very often the best ever, but also very often shit. never got around to his black dahlia, but i'm sure i eventually will.

white jazz

Read an interview with Ellroy recently where he said the script for the American Tabloid TV show was the best adaptation of his work ever. Also, he really doesn't like Russell Crowe.

The run of Black Dahlia, Big Nowhere, and L.A. Confidential is his strongest stuff, imo. Before that, the novels didn't have much historical depth; after that, his prose style started getting in the way of the narrative.

"Read an interview with Ellroy recently where he said the script for the American Tabloid TV show was the best adaptation of his work ever."

He also creamed himself over the LA Confidential script when he read that. Dude's no dummy, if he sez it's good some people might watch it and he'll get $$$.

i saw a reading he gave a few days before 'the black dahlia' opened and my bro asked him, "so is the film any good?" and he paused for a few seconds and gave some roundabout answer that didn't give us much hope, since he's usually so straightforward.

LA Confidential script was pretty good tho tbf.

the Dahlia movie is a near complete disaster - there are a couple of perfect scenes (tracking shot reveal of the body being discovered and the high society dinner-gone-wrong) but apart from that its laughably bad. the final shot... oof.

It's a far sillier book than LA Confidential though so no surprise there.

Anyway I don't trust writers opinions of adaptations was all I was saying.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

reading American Tabloid....i don't know if this is genius or ridiculous or both.

he's like the greg dulli of literature.

kinda unreal though, makes chandler, etc look like danielle steele

its def both - remember thinking that am tab and the cold six were the best of his books harshly stylish but theyre generally really distorted as well

weird, just started reading American Tabloid the other day

like the last page i was reading dudes are talking about all their cuban paramilitary troops dudes they are training then BAM kemper boyd just shoots the head off a rattlesnake...just cuz...i sweat like every five pages i'm like OH NO YOU DIDNT

but i'm totally having fun w/it

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are you liking it latebloomer?

i think i'm in just the right mood for it right now for some reason

Yeah I'm digging it so far!

I was def. in the mood for it too. I've been meaning to read some Ellroy to start with and saw it at Barnes & Noble, so I decided to pick it up.

just walked out of an interview on irish radio, didn't like the tone nor direction of the questions.

52 mins into part 2 of the 'last word' show here just in case yer interested

Is Blood's A Rover actually worth reading? I read the first two and can't muster the excitement for a third, though I'd probably be into it. Or should I read Pynchon's "Inherent Vice" instead? I am stuck in suburban Indiana for a week and there is a Barnes & Noble.

Cold Six-Thousand was lousy so I stopped caring.

The Hilleker Curse felt so contrived & phony I questioned ever liking falling for his schtick in the first place. what a poser.

blood's a rover is actually amazing

I'll read Blood's A Rover eventually but I've had w/this guy's sexual outlaw routine

i have never read any james ellroy but i figure if there are some fans they might like this extract from an interview, it's very strong:

http://www.falsedawn.blogspot.com/2012/02/sanja-ivekovic-paper-women-197677-from.html

finally reading Blood's A Rover, more head-spinning conspiracy & hardboiled verbal yuks from our guy

thinking the best comparison for Ellroy might not be Pynchon but Burroughs and/or Ballard, for the depth of his obsessions and the deadly maniacal precision of his prose

Ballard and Burroughs are good analogues - both are really, erm, repetitive thematically in a way that's similar to Ellroy

I think that Ellroy's repetition works in his favour, while it worked against Burroughs (try reading 'The Soft Machine' straight after 'Naked Lunch'). Ballard I'm not sure about.

speaking of obsessions, skills etc what about Ellroy compared to Woolrich, or Highsmith?

I'll take Burroughs over Ellroy any day just because his obsessions are more interesting and his technique more striking.

Ballard I like okay but I've read so many of his novels with the same plot, I get really tired of it

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Highsmith is a better than Ellroy imo. Characters are psychologically richer, more credible for all their murderous quirks and everyday madness

better writer

highsmith isnt a very flattering comparison to ellroy but i think shes much less interested in 'systems'

woolrich is better than ellroy but in i think maybe less interesting as a thing that happened

highsmith blows him out of the water, come on now

don't think highsmith and ellroy have v much in common in as writers, tbh - ellroy = cop lover, highsmith = crook lover. ellroy more in the edmcbain, joseph wambaugh tradition- he's a writer of 'police procedurals' more than 'psychological thrillers'.

I just read that James Franco is directing a movie adaption of American Tabloid and also he plans on acting in it. Ffs why didn't HBO make a mini-series of it? Now it is fucked.

^^^i think this project was quashed, thank god. i couldn't possibly imagine which part in Tabloid franco thought he could play.

He would probably fancy a go at Wheelman "Dipshit" from Blood's A Rover.

reading Perfidia now, idk it's looong

any good?

's OK. feels a little slow. the machine-gun staccato short sentences aren't hitting me as hard. pro forma. maybe he's a little bored too? the pearl harbor/anti-japanese conspiracy angle isn't quite as juicy/compelling as expected but will finish regardless.

i could see franco as crutch but based on his plans he seemed only interested in doing tabloid as a single film, not as a longform series for the whole underworld trilogy.

re: perfidia - i really liked it and despite his style being kinda set in stone now there seemed to be enough freshness (esp. in the kay chapters) that it worked. honestly it's prob top 5 or 6 in his catalog. i will say that it moved slower than blood's a rover or tabloid.

of the biggest complaints that will result about the whole book, the easter-eggs-for-fans approach of having characters like ward littell show up as a young buck is a bit ehhh. in other instances it kinda works, like seeing dudley smith's goons from the LA Quarter books develop their slavish devotion to him.

finally, DUDLEY. although his seemingly gleeful utter vileness makes his chapters rank among the most uncomfortable protagonist material in JE's catalog (saying a lot there) finally understanding how he came to his racist beliefs is fascinating.

obviously i'm pretty in the tank for ellroy so take my opinions on those specific things with a grain of salt. but even with that caveat and me saying it's no L.A. confidential or blood's a rover (latter is his absolute best IMO, seriously), it's worth your time if you're not burned out on him.

finally finished Perfidia, have to say the slower pace made my interest flag after awhile. agree the voice of Kay made those chapters a refreshing departure for Ellroy. overall i thought it lacked the energy, the ELECTRICITY of Tabloid and Blood's A Rover. Dudley hooking up w/Bette Davis was "grand" but the best celebrity cameo was Jack Webb. casting Sgt Joe Friday as a panting cop lapdog/groupie was a gift to Dragnet fans the world over.

Webb's hardboiled schtick must've been a crucial influence on Ellroy's style. Joe Friday always gets the last word!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5iFVfwMnG4

he talks about webb all the time - he cites webb's book The Badge (which is like an "uncut" version of various cleaned-up dragnet cases, including the black dahlia) as a major influence on him. also goes out of his way to mock webb as a cop-groupie in perfidia and elsewhere, and considering ellroy's overall respect for cops - despite how often he paints police of bygone eras as varying degrees of corrupt - that's saying a lot.

have to say i thought the dudley/bette davis thing was kind of silly but oh well.

I haven't read perfidia (or any of the la quartet apart from the big nowhere) but I'm going to hear ellroy talk about it on tues, will report back

Started reading the first Lloyd Hopkins book, f

Oops

Forget the title. Some of the prose is a lil clunkier than the others I've read of his but it's vivid as Hell & kinda nauseating in places

About halfway through Perfidia. I really think it's a terrible book. Loved the first LA Quartet; wasn't madly keen on the Underworld USA trilogy, though I thought Blood's a Rover was markedly better than the two that preceded it. But this is awful, a big saggy mess. His prose, more than ever, has descended into self parody, so much so that the characters have become indistinguishable from each other – they all talk the same, think the same, act the same, regardless of race or sex.

The only thing that's stopping me putting it aside is the flow of stories about the child sex rings involving The Great and the Good in 70s/80s London, which serve as a reminder that Ellroy's imaginings about what people use power for might be closer to the truth that one might wish.