Top Gun, Dude Wheres my Car, Fight Club

I guess the question I'm getting at is this: isn't it possible for people to idealize their own gender without its necessarily being seen as homoerotic?

In fight club there is the scene where Ed Norton is watching Bradd Pitt have a bath. They converse and Brad Pitt says " We are a generation of men raised by woman, i am not sure another woman is an answer" This seems like a very queer statement.

In dude wheres my car Chester and Jesse play fight until they realize they have money. They the disentangle and consider hugging. As well they find out they have a BMW. They reach a red light Fabio and Arm Candy are next to them. They ape Fabio. Fabio puts his arm around the woman , Jesse puts his arm around Chester, Fabio kisses the woman, Jesse kisses Chester.

And Top Gun, well Quentin Tarintino says it better in Sleep With Me then i ever could : (BTW This is the only good 30 seconds in the movie)

Kelly McGillis, she's heterosexuality. She's saying: no, no, no, no, no, no, go the normal way, play by the rules, go the normal way. They're saying no, go the gay way, be the gay way, go for the gay way, all right? That is what's going on throughout that whole movie... He goes to her house, all right? It looks like they're going to have sex, you know, they're just kind of sitting back, he's takin' a shower and everything. They don't have sex. He gets on the motorcycle, drives away. She's like, "What the fuck, what the fuck is going on here?" Next scene, next scene you see her, she's in the elevator, she is dressed like a guy. She's got the cap on, she's got the aviator glasses, she's wearing the same jacket that the Iceman wears. She is, okay, this is how I gotta get this guy, this guy's going towards the gay way, I gotta bring him back, I gotta bring him back from the gay way, so I'll do that through subterfuge, I'm gonna dress like a man. All right? That is how she approaches it. Okay, now let me just ask you - I'm gonna digress for two seconds here. I met this girl Amy here, she's like floating around here and everything. Now, she just got divorced, right? All right, but the REAL ending of the movie is when they fight the MIGs at the end, all right? Because he has passed over into the gay way. They are this gay fighting fucking force, all right? And they're beating the Russians, the gays are beating the Russians. And it's over, and they fucking land, and Iceman's been trying to get Maverick the entire time, and finally, he's got him, all right? And what is the last fucking line that they have together? They're all hugging and kissing and happy with each other, and Ice comes up to Maverick, and he says, "Man, you can ride my tail, anytime!" And what does Maverick say? "You can ride mine!" Swordfight! Swordfight! Fuckin' A, man!

Two of these examples indicate queerness is a choice or a product of socialaation, which is problematic.

angels with dirty faces planes, trains, and automobiles reservoir dogs the wild bunch goodfellas serpico

films that do not:

boyz in the hood pulp fiction clerks

that said, i like both equally. in the way that i like romantic comedies as much as chaste nunnery-based comedies. she's the sister...with ATTITUDE!

Underlying all of this, I think, is the weird sense these days that for a man to actually like another man as a person is somehow effeminate or homoerotic.

I don't rule out the gay reading of Top Gun (hmmm, even the title sounds like something that could pass for a gay porno). But Kelly McGillis's aping masculine traits could also be described the conventional way -- she's in a traditionally masculine environment (the military) doing traditionally masculine things (fighing Commies!). She has to prove her worth in such an environment in what is, essentially, a Boy's Club with its male-bonding rituals. I also doubt that Tony Scott is clever enough to do a "playing with gayness" thing if his other films are any indication.

BTW - high fieldity works really well with the whole male bonding kick.

Tadeusz, if he's that dumb then he's dumb enuff to be "played with": ie for someone to hand him a homo-wired script and a homo- subversive team and they do the fuck-math and he don't ever see it. But you don't have to be smart to play gay.

And endings don't count when you're on the hunt for this stuff: they're the bit where the director covers his ass — "see, I didn't mean it, the math comes out straight in the end blah blah."

Good point, Mark.

but...

i do know a whole heap of fun can be had with the script if you replace all of the 'fight's with 'fuck's (as well as fitting in nicely with the pop psychology 'violence is subverted sex' thing) try lines like 'if a guy passes out, or taps out, the fight is over' or 'i'd fight ghandi'

or as my straight mate Aidan said, when he realised his self love in front of the bathroom mirror was getting beyond plutonic... 'if there were two of you, and you had sex with yourself, would it be wanking, or incest, or would you be queer?'

http://gooseyoubigstud.ytmnd.com/

Dude, Where's My Car is hardly "subliminally" homoerotic, when it has a scene with the two male protagonists kissing. Okay, it was meant to play for laughs, but it's not the sort of "Eww, gay!" humour rather "Heck, why not?" humour. And the two girlfriends of the main characters have hardly any function in the film, as they appear only in a couple of scenes.

Also, the Scandinavian leather aliens and the transsexual stripper definitely add to the queer flavour of the movie.

tarantino on top gun:

And what is the last fucking line that they have together? They're all hugging and kissing and happy with each other, and Ice comes up to Maverick, and he says, "Man, you can ride my tail, anytime!" And what does Maverick say? "You can ride mine!"

= bullshit misquoting

http://gooseyoubigstud.ytmnd.com/

-- latebloomer, Tuesday, 27 May 2008 04:26 (4 hours ago) Link

Well, that got everyones attention in my office.

lesson of the day: do not click the ytmnd links