so, doctors thought a man was in a coma for 23 years, but he wasn't

like, what
the
fuck

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/11/24/coma.man.belgium/index.html

just, what

"So the Iron Curtain came down--"

"Yeah I KNOW that."

this creeps the hell out of me. in the bbc article they said this happens a lot (a lot considering the circumstances obv.)!!!!!

23 years is a long ass time

was he just chillin or

That sounds like absolute hell.

I'm gonna have nightmares from that article.

cant speak and barely moves. took them this long to notice brain movement and to train him to use one of those steven hawking keyboard things iirc

so, doctors thought a man was in a coma for 23 years, but he was just living in belgium.

mustve been somewhat frustrating

Isn't this insane? This along with being awake and able to feel everything but not communicate during surgery scare the shit out of me.

Don't be so sure about this one--they're using facilitated communication to communicate with the guy.

mustve been somewhat frustrating

― ice cr?m, Tuesday, November 24, 2009 3:47 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

otm

Christine, I'm not familiar with that process, tho that wiki says it's "controversial." Could you please explain why it means the jury may still be out on this one?

just a little

xpost

this is terrifying

why it means the jury may still be out on this one?

It's very very easy for the facilitator to guide the selection of words/letters, whether intentionally or subconsciously.

Here's an overview with some study results.

were i guys family id be asking questions only he would know

i was reading it's not so rare

And here's a response about this particular case from a facilitated-communication skeptic.

His first communication: "stop talking about itching"

This is some Edgar Allan Poe shit, real nightmare fuel.

MAJOR red flags here for me.

we talked about this case briefly in neurology case rounds today. someone who saw the news report told us this was a case of 'locked in' syndrome that had been missed for 23 years.

patients who are 'locked in' are alert and aware but completely paralyzed except for vertical eye movements. the lesion is in the pons (brainstem), disconnecting the cerebral cortex from control of the limbs, facial movements, and horizontal eye movements. it's an important diagnosis because the higher cortical functions are preserved, so if the syndrome is recognized, it is possible to communicate with the patient. the author of "the diving bell and the butterfly" was locked in. he dictated that book using eye movements alone. that's the standard method of communication (if there can be such a thing -- 'locked in' syndrome is very rare) in these cases. it's laborious, but there is no real subsitute.

that's not what's happening here at all.

here we see a 'facilitator' typing quickly using the patient's finger, while the patient makes no visible movements at all. even if this is so-called "facilitated communication", how does the facilitator know exactly which letter the patient intends? i didn't see any back-and-forth course corrections that suggested the patient was selecting a given letter ("no, not 'G', i want 'H') or that any typos were being made or corrected. patients with profound but not complete neuromuscular weakness who have spared cognition (as in ALS) sometimes use modified keyboards to activate a speech synthesizer for communication -- a similar set-up except that they are making all the movements themselves. it's a slow, laborious process, with frequent errors and frustrations, but there's no real substitute.

that's not what's happening here at all.

it's worth acknowledging that there is likely a continuum of some awareness in patients who are diagnosed with persistent vegetative states, a fact we recognize with the diagnosis of minimally conscious state. most neurologists agree there's a continuum between PVS and MCS. we have limited insight into anyone else's consciousness at the best of times (for more or radical subjectivity, see Raggett, Ned on ilxor.com passim). in a patient who is apparently unresponsive, it's very hard to know what they are or are not aware of. there are some (very rare!) documented cases of patients diagnosed with PVS who wake up after a number of years. presumably they were "really" MCS all along. once awake, you could ask that patient what he/she remembers from the experience. there'd be no way of discounting their account of the experience. not that i've ever heard of a patient waking up from that state with perfect recall of the intervening 20 years (i don't think i have perfect recall of my own life in that timespan, and i was overtly conscious for most of it).

again: that's not what's happening here at all. based on this (admittedly short) video, the patient IS NOT COMMUNICATING. there's no evidence in this video that he has woken up at all.

this has all the markings of a family who want to believe something that sadly isn't the case, and doctors/professionals who are themselves gullible or at least over-optimistic. if this turns out to be independently verifiable (someone whisper something to the man out of his caregiver's hearing and have it typed back accurately), i'll go back to teaching piano.

worst media neurology report since schiavo. nightmare scenario for intensivists and neurologists. the question of expected recovery from coma comes up all the time, and decisions to maintain or withdraw care are difficult enough (in either direction!) on everyone involved as it is.

never ceases to amaze me that people can go into the medical profession without basic common sense or skepticism about human nature.

i've seen this guy on the news three nights running- i have no idea how his 'facilitator' was selecting the keys, but it sure didn't look like he had any input?

so, doctors thought a man was in a coma for 23 years, but he wasn't not in a coma

thinkin bout things

He'd be insane if he could suddenly communicate, surely

"We call this one the Chief. He's been here since 1968. Never says a word. Never moves a muscle."

Homer Simpson: Hey.

Chief: Hey.

[All the doctors gather around muttering and writing notes]

Chief: Well, it's about time someone reached out to me!"

The facilatedly communicative invariably have rich emotional existences full of love for their families and reciprocity for their caregivers. As a literary genre, it owes a lot to séance.

"Guy who's been in a coma for 23 years, what's on your Sound Burger?"

Wasn't there a House MD ep about this with Mos Def being the guy locked in?

News reports of events are often 'tidied up' for public consumption e.g scientists are asked to don white coats and act out monitoring an instrument , contracts are fake signed. 'Spontaneous' quotes are rehearsed and prepared.

TV news could be showing a 'tidied up' illustration of communication in these news extracts. Doesn't mean that the underlying basis of the case isn't true.

I bet the guy knows the answer to Who would win a fight between a horse and a monkey?

The doctor in question, Dr. Steven Laureys, now admits the man in the coma isn't actually able to communicate.

Still maintains the patient in question is "minimally conscious", not vegetative, but that communication is impossible so far due to paralysis ("locked in" state). Note that his consciousness, whatever it is, must be far more impaired than the world's most famous "locked in" patient, Jean-Dominique Bauby, who dictated The Diving Bell and the Butterfly by blinking.

Worst 'Weekend At Bernie's' yet.

Holy crap

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I1RBiDKDbA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UVW_ukJV_w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSVGzpLA3T0