Jacques Audiard - A Prophet

I've just watched this Grand Prix winner at cannes 2009 and:

- it's better than The White Ribbon (which is good)
- it upgrades Scorsese's (and co.) crime movies into a profound zone theyve never been before: with elements taken from Kafka, social realism, Bunuel and subtle philosphical symbolism, all directed and filmed to perfection.
- i predict a relatively big success for this movie in the U.S., cause imo it works for a variety kinds of viewers (tight thrilling story, arty direction,
complex theme)
-therefore, this thread.

I mentioned it on the detrius thread but it seemed like no one had seen it. Could definitely see it breaking out to an extent if it gets the right kind of marketing push.

Can't really see it opening in my area, but will be immediately Netflixed when available.

this was very good.

I love love love Audiard so I am very excited about this.

Friend got bored and had an ice cream in the middle. I didn't think it was boring.

Not really a fan of crime/gangster films or prison films. Miles better than Gommorah as far as foreign pictures of that sort go. Also seemed particularly beautiful, but maybe that's because the last two films I saw in the cinema were Up in the Air and The Road, both of which were ugly (intentionally or otherwise).

"Not really a fan of crime/gangster films or prison films."

Fan of all three. Although my favorite Audiard movie is probably A Self Made Hero which has nothing to do with any of that really.

it's good, but too long

i say that about a lot of movies these days. but directors need to stop thinking 2.5 hours is okay unless the movie really, really deserves it.

Agree in general but I think this actually earns its running time.

this was okay. much more run of the mill than i was expecting it to be. it's not so much too long as overplotted and kind of pointless, ultimately. the killing and the whole razor blade thing is brilliantly done and got me quite excited because it seemed to be setting the tone, along with the whole learning to read thing, for a subtle psychological drama. actually it just gets bogged down in the machinations of the various factions in the prison which isn't really interesting to me and seemed kind of morally weird also. i can't square the ecstatic reviews with the film i actually watched.

the use of music was particularly bad i thought.

there were great things in it which weren't pursued and boring things which were pursued at great length. i suppose i can't really criticise it for not being the film i wanted it to be but the hype machine seems to be crediting it with a lot more depth that i actually saw on-screen.

the times review was along the lines that the film would be considered a "classic of the coming decade". what a fucking idiotic thing to say.

that = than

overhyped to be sure, as it didn't transcend its genre nearly as much as they said it did. still, i think it does enough that it's pretty great. the moments where he's enjoying his day leaves are fantastic and the freedom he feels is palatable. i also liked the loose religious allegory brought in. it would take the intervention of a superior being to pull off what he pulls off.

- it upgrades Scorsese's (and co.) crime movies into a profound zone theyve never been before: with elements taken from Kafka, social realism, Bunuel and subtle philosphical symbolism, all directed and filmed to perfection.

woah really?

the symbolism was too subtle/not heavy-handed enough for me. in what way is this guy a prophet?

i don't really see the kafkaness at all.

i agree with jed. i didn't think it was bad -- though the plotting wasn't exactly drum-tight -- but nor do i understand the love it's getting.

not as good as losey's 'the criminal' anyway.

to put it simple,he was a prophet in showing the future of france:
"if we wont treat the immigrants right, they will beat us in our own game"

kafka - a hero struggling to survive and succeed among a society that tries to degrade him

yeah, i sort of got that allegory, though cesar was corsican, right? i don't know that much about france, whether corsicans are seen as a band apart, so to speak.

anyway, that scenario doesn't make malik a prophet; it makes him an... avatar? and what is "the game", in wider french society?

i'd better read some reviews.

kafka - a hero struggling to survive and succeed among a society that tries to degrade him

nah... that description works for a heck of a lot of fiction. kafka is telling a kind of cosmic joke, and didn't deal in heroes. not that malik is a hero either, i suppose.

well, so far im finding original ideas like "the prison is a metaphor for capitalism."

and also verbiage from peter bradshaw:

It comports itself like a modern classic from the very first frames, instantly ­hitting its massively confident stride. This is the work of the rarest kind of film-maker, the kind who knows ­precisely what he is doing and where he is going. The film's every effect is ­entirely intentional.

what a load of crap. what complete shit. i didn't even dislike the film -- i thought it was good enough -- but this is just rubbish.

Trembling Malik now finds himself in a terrifying, almost Greeneian dilemma. Should he refuse? Should he simply ­submit to death rather than ­become a murderer?

hmm, what an original, almost greeneian, situation for a prison drama. someone's scratched bradshaw's dvds of 'oz' i guess.

haha, yes that bradshaw review is ridic. did it get the same sort of review in S&S?

if i hated this i'd be more likely to think i was really wrong about it and that it is actually some kind of towering masterpiece but as it is i just think it's alright and i'm pretty sure that's what it is.

what a load of crap. what complete shit. i didn't even dislike the film -- i thought it was good enough -- but this is just rubbish.

― V-E-R-Y (history mayne), Monday, February 15, 2010 8:23 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

agree with both of youse

people need to chill

it's like they've never seen the wire tbh

did it get the same sort of review in S&S?

try not to read it, but it was voted best film of 2009 iirc

i preferred it to 'the white ribbon' and (in all probability) 'antichrist', so i guess it could be worse

just in terms of the plotting too, the shoot out on a busy Parisian street and the subsequent return of Malik to the prison is a little hard to believe to say the least.

well, noting's perfect.
i think some of you guys might had the "the higher the expectations the bigger the fall" syndrom on this.
i'm glad ive seen the movie almost with no expectations at all,otherwise...

i didn't have massive expectations, as it goes. i thought 'read my lips' was pretty good, and 'a self-made hero' too. (not so much the first audiard (can't rly remember it) or 'the beat that my heart skipped'.)

and although it had won plaudits, that doesn't usually impress me, and i try not to read reviews before seeing a film. i was as close to neutral as i get, and just felt it was ok coming out.

too damn long

- This is not better than White Ribbon. Was the murder straight out of Haneke?
- It is two and half hours but what do you cut? Not a big deal, felt engrossed in it from beginning to end.
- Is he a prophet in the way he leads/gives a purpose to the Muslim gang as opposed to the Corsicans, whom Malik learns from? I'd go along with it except I don't see how they run things in the first place. Far too plotted, yeah, perhaps this could have worked better as a six part series Oz style?

Bunuel comparison? Explain.

Is he a prophet in the way he leads/gives a purpose to the Muslim gang as opposed to the Corsicans, whom Malik learns from?

you can't get called a "prophet" just because you're a gangleader. feels like slapping a portentous name on a standard thriller to get people umming and ahhing over the possible meaning. presumably the muslims had a leader before he showed up? i can't remember how he finally convinved the muslims he was ok -- initially they hadn't liked him. it wasn't by having a "message" such as you might expect from a prophet.

i can't remember how he finally convinved the muslims he was ok

Wasn't it the 2nd time he was out negotiating for the Corsican, he's got a gun to his head in the car, sees the deer over (first seen in a dream?), shouts 'deer', they run one over, shoot the other. They see this as some kind of good day for them.

This was the only time he was called a 'prophet'. So after gaining that partic group's confidence, Malik gets to contact the egyptian guy who is giving his operation trouble on the outside and set up a meeting.

Where I kind of begin to lose the thread is that he sets up a meeting with the muslim gang in jail by getting his friend on the outside to give money to an Iman.

But yes, hard to believe the Muslims were without any direction before he showed up.

I felt it deserved all the hype, well maybe some people got a little too excited but it was a pretty great film, like a little bit better than Goodfellas but not quite The Godfather.
I was FURIOUS that Kristen Stewart was awarded a BAFTA (public vote but still!) over Tahar Rahim, somewhere people are mistakenly thinking this means she is a respectable actress.

better than Goodfellas but not quite The Godfather

Yes, though that's hardly putting it in rarified territory afaic.

The "prophet" angle seemed to me to mean, bluntly, if you're in a prison yard, stick to your own race.

LOVED THIS

Nah, this was just plain overrated. An ok crime/prison flick.

Watching this tonight. Its length gave me pause.

that's what she said

it really is too long though, i watched it again the other weekend and it just made that fact clear

theres a new hype jail movie that suppose to ride on the Prophet wave yet again - Cell 211.
supposed to be good.(?!)

this thread proves that there's no movie ILX collectively likes

I thought this was vv good. imo.

ugh v v, not 'w'

hot and cool:

http://www.gqmagazine.fr/uploads/images/thumbs/201308/jacques_audiard_954158166_north_600x_white.jpg

Yes, I saw a different pic of him the other day and mistook him for Hugh Jackman

No talk about Dheepan? Thought this was excellent even if the Taxi Driver-esque ending (and coda) is getting a little old. Great acting esp. between the two leads.

Yeah the coda was sappy but turning into Die Hard was a good move I think.

Wasn't just so much sappy to me as it was fantastical (similar again to Taxi Driver).

I thought the trailer for The Sisters Brothers made it look stupid, a bloodier Apple Dumpling Gang. But it dawned on me today who directed it, and I thought Dheepan was terrific, so I watched it tonight. It's pretty good! Very thoughtful and meditative in places, and Audiard nailed the landing.

The Sisters Brothers might be my favourite Audiard, and yeah, the ending especially is fantastic