Avatar vs The Matrix

(for the sake of this argument, Reloaded and Revolutions never happened)

can't fuck with the original matrix imo.

^^^otm

Avatar is a special blend of the awesomeness of Matrix 1 and the cringeworthiness of Matrix 3

Watching both movies I was totally "wow, this is fantastic!" but I forgot both soon afterward.

Poll needs a "none of the above" option.

(for the sake of this argument, Reloaded and Revolutions never happened)

can't be undone

matrix is broken forever

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

we should erase matrix sequels for future generations enjoyment

Reloaded > Avatar...just

i have deeply felt fond memories of the hype and poster campaign for reloaded which is more than i can say for avatar. i'm not sure which i would pick to see again between avatar and revolutions

have deeply felt fond memories of the hype and poster campaign for reloaded

what the hell is wrong with you

i thought it was going to be awesome and also that those white background character posters were the hottest thing ever in the history of man creating art and i will never apologize for that.

Both movies have a cliched but decent enough plot about a Chosen White Guy who's job it is to save a planet of oppressed people, both feature some corny but sympathetic new age philosophy, both have a distinct visual look and action scenes which are the most memorable things about them. I choose Avatar, because I find Matrix's "techno goth" idea of cool much more irritating than Avatar's Smurf Indians, who're actually quite likable. Plus Avatar spends most of it visual innovations on cool animals and trippy space plants, which I find more interesting than Matrix's innovations on gun and kung fu action scenes. That's what effect-driven sci-fi should really be about: trippy visions of unearthly phenomenon. Compared to that Matrix is mostly just an enhanced action flick.

Avatar is basically Ferngully with CG right? I vote Matrix.

I'm voting for Avatar, which I liked just OK, because I am so fucking sick of The Matrix and didn't really like it to begin with.

^^ same.

I haven't seen Avatar, but I'm pretty confident the Matrix is better. Not going to vote though.

chap that actually gives our votes more credibility, eyes untainted, quick dive to the bottom.

so this thread is kind of hippies vs. goths or something, isn't it

Pretty much.

Plus Avatar spends most of it visual innovations on cool animals and trippy space plants, which I find more interesting than Matrix's innovations on gun and kung fu action scenes

you're forgetting the lovely Sentinels, probably the best designed thing in Matrix films

Write-in vote for Ghost in the Shell.

would you rather take some red pills in the matrix or lick some blue mushrooms on pandora

or... would you rather be a trenchcoated superman with guns, or a 12 foot tall blue dude on a lush jungle planet? shit i think i might pick the latter.

i watched the matrix again last year and it was kind of unbearable tbh

i still recognize the cool stuff it did at the time but i never want to see it or hear about it again ever

and by cool stuff i'm not talking so much about bullet time as the other little neat things that were in the first movie that none of the movies did... the phone booth stuff, the "glitch in the matrix" deja vu thing...

This will perhaps clarify to s1ocki what I was "complaining about" a week ago:

Obviously everyone will have seen Avatar by the time this poll closes, right? Monumentally hyped movies just aren't as FRESH after the first TEN DAYS.

most of those animatrix shorts still hold up btw (wanted more of these in fact - actual animated series might've been fun but hard to decide what style to make it in)

This will perhaps clarify to s1ocki what I was "complaining about" a week ago:

Obviously everyone will have seen Avatar by the time this poll closes, right? Monumentally hyped movies just aren't as FRESH after the first TEN DAYS.

― Rage, Resentment, Spleen (Dr Morbius), Monday, December 28, 2009 12:53 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i agree. i think especially with avatar ppl are gonna be like what the hell were we thinking.

but i think the matrix's mystique lasted at least until the second one came out.

and not everything is going to last forever, you know? things come and things go. wheel of time and all that.

Is there a third-act turning point of suckitude in Avatar equivalent to "We need lots of guns"?

when the animals start joining in the battle maybe

there's a deus ex machina groaner for sure xp

and thaaat's it

I thought the animals joining the battle was one of the coolest scenes in Avatar! Mother Pandora fights back! Or whatever it was they called their goddess... That's exactly the sort of solution an eco-hippie action movie should have. Plus it wasn't a deus ex machina (except in the most literal sense), since Pandora had already been explained to be a planet-wide sentient network of life, and the main dude did pray for her aid against the humans.

so how is that NOT a deux ex machina

Like I said, it's a deus ex machina in the literal sense: Pandora's "god" saves the planet. But it isn't deus ex machina in the narrative sense, i.e. a conclusion that comes from out of nowhere. The conclusion had been set up by Sigourney Weaver explaining what the blue folks' god really is, and by Jake Sully praying for her to save the day. Which she does.

it's still GOD SAVING THE DAY

it doesn't have to be a surprise god you've never heard of

Wikipedia's definition of "deus ex machina":

A deus ex machina (pronounced /ˈdeɪ.əs ɛks ˈmɑːkinə/ or /ˈdiː.əs ɛks ˈmækɨnə/,[1] literally, in Latin, "god from the machine") is a plot device in which a person, group, or thing appears suddenly, and at the exactly appropriate moment, in order to conveniently and unexpectedly help a character overcome a previously believed insolvable difficulty. Alternatively a person or object may have a property not revealed before.

The phrase refers to a narrative device where a previously unknown object/person/entity/whatever unexpectedly helps to bring the story to its conclusion. This wasn't the case with Avatar: it was explained that the planet is a sentient network of life (which is the god the blue folks worship), and Jake Sully prays for her. So the conclusion isn't unexpected save by a previously unknown force.

Alternatively a person or object may have a property not revealed before.

such as the ability to mobilize the planet's animals in a military battle

it is a deus ex machina of sorts but tuomas is otm that it wasn't exactly out of nowhere. i was totally expecting that to happen. which is the movie's problem. there was no moment where i was surprised by the story.

though tbh i think i would have been disappointed if the animals didn't fight back

they should ride those triceratops looking things to begin with.

seriously!

goths are icky - voted giant blue hippies

Is there a third-act turning point of suckitude in Avatar equivalent to "We need lots of guns"?

― Rage, Resentment, Spleen (Dr Morbius), Monday, December 28, 2009 12:57 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

whatever avatars flaws theres no way the can compete w/this all time groaner

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

oh harsh

not harsh enough

i got berated at a bar last night by a dude who was very emotional about how much better the matrix would've been had will smith not turned down the opportunity to play neo. once other bystanders got wind of this guy's outrage we all decided the matrix would've been improved x1000 by a montage of neo learning kung fu etc set to 'getting jiggy with it'.

Hugo Weaving's character would then be renamed "Uncle Phil"

dude at a bar OTM

Matrix is garbage. At least Avatar was fun to watch.

I thought the animals joining the battle was one of the coolest scenes in Avatar! Mother Pandora fights back! Or whatever it was they called their goddess... That's exactly the sort of solution an eco-hippie action movie should have. Plus it wasn't a deus ex machina (except in the most literal sense), since Pandora had already been explained to be a planet-wide sentient network of life, and the main dude did pray for her aid against the humans.

― Tuomas, Monday, December 28, 2009 6:20 PM (6 days ago) Bookmark

enya. their god was called enya.

would have voted "the matrix" for *not* having a bit where lawrence fishburne says "you're not in kansas anymore... you're in the matrix."

saw matrix for the first time this past semester and it's pretty terrible, have not seen avatar yet

omg both movies say "you're not in Kansas anymore"

Rainbow connection established.

Lawrence Fishburne better looking that anyone in Avatar btw.

I like Enya.

Enya > Avatar > Matrix 2 orgy scene > Matrix 1

STOP IT HOLLYWOOD

http://www.theverge.com/2017/3/14/14930638/the-matrix-reboot-remake-movie

Is there a dedicated bullshit reboots thread?

neo chooses the red pill, becomes fedora-sporting mens' rights activist blasting his way through a matrix ruled by evil, castrating matriarchs protected by elite social justice warriors

Penn is best known for his script work on several superhero movies, providing story assistance for other established writers on X-Men: The Last Stand, The Avengers, and Elektra.

Last Action Hero (1993) (story)
Inspector Gadget (1999) (screenplay)
X2: X-Men United (2003) (story)
Elektra (2005) (written by)
X-Men 3: The Last Stand (2006) (written by)
The Incredible Hulk (2008) (screen story) (screenplay)
The Avengers (2012) (story)

besides the avengers and maybe x2 these are some the worst scripts of his generation

was hoping it was the Thurman/Fiennes Avengers

Last Action Hero is OK isn't it? I don't think I've seen it since I was a teenager.

It's better than ok tbh

yeah it has problems, isn't entirely sure what it wants to be, etc., but it's middling-good, not the total disaster one might expect. I also remember really liking X2 but it did have the advantage of combining several classic stories from the comics, and I've never watched it a second time. X3 is the one that leaps out from that list, hoo boyyyyy.

This is going to be a disaster.

*in cigar-smoke-filled room or whatever*

"Yeah, kid, we like the original property, but we need to make it darker and grittier."

"Uh."

A prediction: the 360 spin will be recreated through CG, with extra gratuitous stop-and-starts, and will look worse.

Another: the hacking-the-Matrix stuff will be way more over the top, blatantly ripped from Inception and Dr. Strange, and will stop the film in its tracks.

Seems inevitable that it'll be PG-13 and gutless, but hey maybe they were waiting for something like Deadpool/Logan to come along and giive the all-clear.