Tunisia

so - i leave for this place tomorrow for about a week. and then Cairo and then Istanbul.

any last minute tips? i can get by with french – will check out Carthage – do the desert thing out of Douz.
and yes i know they shot Star Wars there, and no i will not be going to any of the old locations.

Cairo and Istanbul will just be a few days in each city, because, well why the hell not.

for starters - anyone know of any decent beaches near Tunis or good places to eat?

It's pretty good. Go to the Coliseum at El Jem. The trains are cool but iirc they go off in the middle of the day, so get up early. In Sousse the train goes right through the main square, which is pretty cool to see. Sidi Bou Said is a posh town near Carthage and pleasant for a wander. Our taxi back to Tunis went across an awesome Outrun-style causeway - I can't remember how we got there but it wasnt as good as that.

Don't pay to enter the Grand Mosque in Tunis - it's crap and a total con job, because there's a barrier right round the corner which stops you getting more than about 12 feet inside. When haggling, aim to settle at about a fifth of what's originally quoted at you. Don't go with kids who offer to guide you places - it's fun for about five seconds, then tedious for the remaining hour it takes them to fleece you.

i think the trains shutting down mid-day might be a summer thing?

That'd make sense, but I'm pretty sure it was a February when I was there and there was a big gap 10-4 or so on the main north-south Tunis-Sousse-Sfax-Gabes line and I remember having to haul my sorry ass up too early more than once. Definitely go to El Jem though, the coliseum is amazing and they let you clamber all over it. I think Portishead played there once.

I don't want to rain on the rest of your trip, but everyone I know who's been reckons Cairo is the worst place on earth. Then again, they all say the opposite about Istanbul. I got to go there with work once, but only for 24 hours during which I was too busy to leave the hotel. Devastating. It looked amazing.

oh ya - it's to see the pyramids and museum and that is all. the foreign currency guy at my bank is from Egypt and he went on a rant about all the great stuff i was missing out on in the south and Jordan!

http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/Classics/roman_provinces/tunisia/El%20Jem%20lower.JPG

I'm drawing a blank on Portishead at El Jem, by the way. Some say it was where The Beatles were planning to do their final gig that became the rooftop at Savile Row, but I think that was actually a different one in Libya. Just look at it though, who needs Egypt?

egyptians

pyramid buffs.

Hmm.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-0115-tunisia-protests-20110115,0,4294274.story

He's now alleged fled the country.

First comment:

FINALLY ... LA Times gives a shred of prominent coverage to a major story that Al Jazeera English has been covering for weeks, while the American press has been totally silent. Americans shouldn't have to rely upon a TV network based in Qatar to get honest, insightful English-language reporting about what's going on in the world.

What's been going on in Tunisia is little different from the Iranian Green Movement protests of 2009, only this time it was in a country the U.S. government supports. I guess that means this is a "bad" revolution, no?

this article on nlp covers the same kind of ground: http://www.newleftproject.org/index.php/nlpblog/fulltext/the_political_economy_of_democracy_promotion/

This has totally taken me unawares, not a clue what's going on here in terms of movements etc. It seemed a fairly chilled, temperate place, I hope this works out without crazies of whatever hue taking over.

My friend was going there less than a month ago. It was cancelled, but because of the snow. Neither of us had an inkling anything might be afoot.

We did call it 'the invisible country' though, because it's fairly big and fairly close but you *never* hear about it - suspect that's the reason for lack of coverage, it's just unknown waters for some reason

any world leaders comment on this yet?

coverage/reaction to this has been p fucked up

this is huge!

i've been kinda following this on a few blogs, it's not just tunisia experiencing "riots" right now, right?

this is an interesting take:

http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2011/01/14/not-taking-sides-ii/

Something that has been lost in this discussion is the recognition of how extraordinary it is for the U.S. government to have taken a neutral position when a friendly autocratic Arab government comes up against enormous popular opposition.

Ben Ali was only the second president since independence in 1956, taking over in 1987. I think the people there were ready for a change. Good liveblog coverage here.

Coverage on telly here seems to have been recorded hours ago - they haven't mentioned Ben Ali's resignation or flight at all

http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2011/01/the-paradox-of-tunisian-water-policy.html

that short article is good, goole - the dichotomy between an effective foreign policy and and one that makes you feel good is always interesting

I meant the first article, but the other's good too

larison is sort of obsessively anti- "democracy" outside the US (he's even said disparaging things about the partition vote in Sudan), but he's been very good on taking apart the response, non-response really, of the neocon establishment to Tunisia and Algeria. the charge is that, surprise, those ppl really don't give a shit about democracy-qua-democracy, since here it seems to be happening on its own, maybe in opposition to US interests, and *crickets*

what's going on in Algeria

same stuff basically. i'm not up on the details or the background, but there are riots, mostly over the stalled and corrupt economy, related to the stalled and corrupt political system.

wwwhhoaa there's a wikileaks angle to this??

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/01/whats-happening-tunisia-explained/

good job wikileaks!

Good article:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/14/tunisia-protests-tunis-ben-ali

Will Egypt be next?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/14/AR2011011405084.html

Twitter and Tunisia's Jasmine Revolution

"Goosebumps all over. I can't believe I lived through an Arab revolution!! Thank you, Tunisia!" tweeted Gigi Ibrahim, a young Egyptian woman whose handle is Gsquare86. "The power of the masses is capable of toppling any dictatorship. Today was Tunisia. Tomorrow is Egypt, Jordan. LONG LIVE REVOLUTION!"

Social media, where young Arabs organize and speak out against their respective regimes, have given the world a clear view of the thoughts, hopes and videos of Tunisians. For days, I have been glued to Twitter, on which events in Tunisia are discussed much faster than mainstream media could report them.

But fair and open elections would be a first for Tunisia. Mr. Ben Ali, a former prime minister who took power in a bloodless coup, was only the second president of the country, which won independence from France in 1956.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/15/world/africa/15tunis.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha2

More than that, Twitter revolution narratives are popular because rather than being about Tunisia, they are often really about ourselves. When we glorify the role of social media we are partly glorifying ourselves. Some of us are not only praising the tools we know and love and use every day, but also the tools we build and have stakes in. To proclaim a Twitter revolution is almost a form of intellectual colonialism, stealthy and mildly delusional: We project our world, our values, and concerns onto theirs and we shouldn’t.

http://www.rferl.org/content/tunisia_can_we_please_stop_talking_about_twitter_revolutions/2277052.html

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/01/14/why_tunisias_revolution_is_islamist_free

Good links -- that last one is particularly useful in explaining the secular culture of Tunisia. Related to the suppression of Islamism is the usually strong role of women in Tunisian society.

Yes, that is a good article. Egypt would be a disaster right now, I think, if similar protests were to succeed there. I'm not too up on the other countries in the region - impression was that Algeria had some kind of secular opposition, but that islamists remained strong though ostracised.

^ 100% otm.

i'm sad to see what's happening there. i'm worried that either the army is going to take over and the place will become a *real* dictatorship or some kind of repressed religious group might be able to cobble together power. i loved being there (esp after i was able to compare it to Egypt) - seeing the equality between the sexes and meeting people who were able to be sort-of-openly gay.
i mean if it leads to free elections etc - great. but so much can go wrong (and already has). i just hope it turns out well.

A new leader isn't going to change the fact that there aren't enough jobs to go around, but this change of power is going a lot better than it could have.

it could be. but who's going to take over?

i have to admit i was pretty surprised by all of this. there were posters of Ali spattered around and we'd ask the odd person about him and we never got the impression he was hated or loathed (mind you my french is far from perfect and maybe that was a thing they would just keep to themselves).

Hopefully they will have an election (I wonder who will run? Leaders of the protests?). Al-Jazeera has been covering this for awhile. If things work out, ideally people throughout the region could see an alternative other than either a autocratic dictatorship or an Islamic one (not that the dictatorial types or fundamentalists will go away, but still...).

Rioting in Libya:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS4b190R1As

The Tunisian revolution is scaring Gaddafi, probably for good reason.

i haven't read thru it all yet but this 'backchannels' blog at csmonitor looks like it could be good:

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Backchannels

http://www.arabist.net/blog/2011/1/24/tunisia-diary-ammars-move-2.html

What does the Tunisian military think of these Tunisian songs linked to by DJ Rupture?

http://www.negrophonic.com/2011/hashtag-tunisia/

the political rap i heard sounded like eminem

I am excited about how this is spreading to Egypt and Libya. Down with the dictators!

And then onto the Kings and Quislings.

it's cool to the extent that it unifies a bunch of disparate groups in different countries, but feels like it's unlikley there's going to be widespread regime toppling just yet

In Cairo:

http://www.theawl.com/2011/01/tonight-in-cairo-the-parliament-is-surrounded

On the south end of the square, a military tank rolled into the crowd. At the top of the tank an officer manned a fire hose that hammered down onto the protesters. But no one moved.

The fire tank had not advanced more than 30 yards before a young Egyptian sprinted up the front of the vehicle and scaled up the side. He proceeded to climb up to the top of the tank, inciting ovations from the crowd. When he reached the top of the tank, the officer manning the hose dropped the nozzle and jumped on the back of the protester. The two men toppled off the vehicle and onto the ground, where the man was taken away by other officers.

The moment they fell to the ground, the front 200 protesters dropped to their knees in unison and began to pray while rest of the crowd looked into the faces of Egyptians staring at the scene from high above in their apartment windows. “Who will be the next hero?” they chanted as they looked up. Then they burst into a new chant: "Come join us, come join us!"

"But it is worth noting that to the extent that an external heave-ho sparked the demonstrations that became a revolt in Tunisia, that spark was as accidental as it was American."

Egyptian Army much more likely to follow orders to fire on civilians imho

Tunisia's "revolution" success hinges very much on the military, and I don't think the military's in other Arab countries are gonna be quite so sympathetic to the general populace

kinda wish Naguib Mahfouz were alive to see/comment on this

This is so interesting - el Baradei is a brave man. Seems triple knife-edged and potentially powderkeggy if the brotherhood are joining in now.

yeah totally. Baradei's role here is very interesting in that its rare to really have someone who represents an actual "third way" - he is not a puppet of the US (in fact, has solid credentials as an opponent of US policy) nor is he aligned with crazy Islamist radicals. of course this means everyone is going to want to kill him, so yeah pretty brave...

Did anybody see all this coming? The narrative we get is so powers-that-be vs islamists that it feels like the views of ordinary people have been totally ignored up 'til now.

I don't think anybody saw this coming in Tunisia

but the fact that the status quo of decrepit autocracies propped up by the West was untenable has been remarked upon by many for quite some time

based on what ive read there are plenty of islamists in the protestors but the muslim brotherhood hasnt made any official statements of support for the protestors? i keep hearing over and over again how cosmopolitan/diverse/etc the protestors are, which is... well its what you want out of a mass movement.

THAT BEING SAID you could have described the iranians protesting against the shah's regime in similar terms, and that ended up not so well for anyone. and this could just be another 2010 iran or 1989 china.

is there a thread about egypt where people are talking about this

I looked for one and didn't see anything

but yeah my cynicism expects a replay of Iran 2010 here

re: the Muslim Brotherhood: Raising the stakes, the Muslim Brotherhood, long the country’s largest organized opposition group, intends to end days of official inaction to enter fully into protests on Friday. On its Web site, the group said it would join “with all the national Egyptian forces, the Egyptian people, so that this coming Friday will be the general day of rage for the Egyptian nation.”

http://assets.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/science/Page%2010.jpg

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/11/01/translated-excerpts-from-egyptian-activists-action-plan/70388/

meanwhile, joe biden says that he wouldnt call mubarak "a dictator"

lol Biden prefers "strongman" maybe?

good luck Egypt

a thread about the civil unrest in egypt (& elsewhere in 'the region' if necessary)

Millions of Tunisians stood in lines to vote for an assembly to draft a new constitution, expressing confidence that their small country could now lead the way to democracy.

they were able to vote from Canada too, despite our idiotic government's attempt to not allow it.

really? Do they typically do that for countries that allow expatriate voting?

Anyway, Go Tunisia!

Canada used to - but the conservatives had to get all xenophobic about things.

The worrying that the likely party winners are not really "moderate" Islamists has started (or has continued some would say)

http://www.israeltoday.co.il/News/tabid/178/nid/22989/language/en-US/Default.aspx

Here's a different take

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/10/09/2447715/tunisian-islamist-party-backs.html

So any predictions, folks--will Tunisia be like Turkey or like Iran or like neither? What will a "moderate Islamic" Tunisia be like? Or do we just have to wait and see?

Optimistic quotes and analysis in the NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/25/world/africa/ennahda-moderate-islamic-party-makes-strong-showing-in-tunisia-vote.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha2

In Tunisia and elsewhere some are wary of the Islamists’ surge, arguing that party leaders sound moderate now but harbor a conservative religious agenda. Tunisia, arguably closer to Europe than the other states swept up in the political upheaval of the past year, is widely viewed as having the best chance of establishing a genuinely pluralistic model of government.

Leaders of Ennahda noted that their party championed a greater commitment to the principles of Western-style liberal democracy than any other Islamist party in the region, and they said they hoped their example would help lead other Islamists in a similar liberal direction.

“We are the most progressive Islamic party in the region,” said Soumaya Ghannoushi, a British newspaper columnist and a scholar at the School of Oriental and African Studies in London. She is the daughter of Ennahda’s founder and acts as a party spokeswoman.

“Accepting each other, accepting pluralism, accepting diversity and trying to work together — this is the lesson Ennahda can give to other Islamic political movements,” she said.

Going to Tunis for a long weekend soon. Any recs?