a plane carrying poland's president has crashed

A plane carrying Polish President Lech Kaczynski has crashed near a Russian airport, officials say.

Russian media reported that 87 people were killed in the crash, but it is not yet known if anyone survived.

The plane was reportedly heading to an airport in the western city of Smolensk when it crashed.

Mr Kaczynski was due to visit Smolensk to mark the 70th anniversary of the Katyn massacre, when Soviet troops killed thousands of Poles.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8612825.stm

Ministry spokeswoman Irina Andrianova said it had been flying from Moscow to Smolensk, but had no details on the identities of those killed.

The Polish Foreign Ministry said the president and his wife were aboard the plane, according to the Associated Press news agency.

Eeek. I guess his brother will take over the presidency from him?

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00638/news-graphics-2007-_638239a.jpg

i.e. the guy on the right. No, wait...

Looks like lots of office holders o board, according to the manifest.

* Lech Kaczyński, the President of Poland
* Maria Kaczyńska, the first lady
* Ryszard Kaczorowski, the last President of the Polish government-in-exile
* Jerzy Szmajdziński, Deputy Speaker of the Sejm
* Władysław Stasiak, Chief of the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland
* Aleksander Szczygło, head of the National Security Bureau
* Paweł Wypych, Secretary of State in the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland
* Mariusz Handzlik, Undersecretary of State in the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland
* Andrzej Kremer, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs
* General Franciszek Gągor, Chief of the Polish Army General Staff
* Andrzej Przewoźnik, Secretary-General of Rada Ochrony Pamięci Walk i Męczeństwa
* Grzegorz Dolniak, member of the Sejm
* Przemysław Gosiewski, member of the Sejm
* Zbigniew Wassermann, member of the Sejm
* Janusz Kochanowski, Polish Ombudsman
* Sławomir Skrzypek, President of the National Bank of Poland
* Janusz Kurtyka, Historian and president of the Institute of National Remembrance
* Tadeusz Płoski, Bishop of the Military Ordinariate of the Polish Army
* Izabela Jaruga-Nowacka, member of the Sejm
* Jolanta Szymanek-Deresz, member of the Sejm
* Aleksandra Natalli-Świat, member of the Sejm

president of poland, foreign affairs minister, half of most important people of second biggest polish political party, head of national bank of poland, polish ombdusman for people's rights, chief of the general staff of the polish armed forces...

fuuuuck

damn. i thought important ppl like this weren't supposed to all get on the same plane together?

there are often protocols to ensure the entire cabinet or w/e doesn't take the same plane
this is going to seem like katyn#2 to the sentimental conspiracists i suppose....
not good

The plane was a Tupolev Tu-154, designed by the Soviets in the mid-1960s, and officials had long complained about the country’s aging air fleet. Former prime minister Leszek Miller, who survived a helicopter crash in 2003, told a Polish news network he had long predicted such a disaster.

“I once said that we will one day meet in a funeral procession, and that is when we will take the decision to replace the aircraft fleet,” he said.

apparently it clipped a tree while landing? eek

on the fourth attempt at landing no less. : /

That's even more horrible. You don't want advance notice of trouble.

will pour a Żywiec out for you dogg.

this is going to seem like katyn#2 to the sentimental conspiracists i suppose....
not good

― nakhchivan, Saturday, April 10, 2010 10:51 AM (49 minutes ago) Bookmark

not v sentimental!

more like sikorski #2 ne way

dude has got a twin brother so they should just sub him in.

uh this is a pretty strange and horrible story

not to get all shakey mo but dude was a right-wing homophobe, i'm not shedding too many tears.

it is pretty strange qand horrible but also i keep thinking 'oh poland's president we love you get up'

http://img.allposters.com/6/LRG/8/812/X9RI000Z.jpghttp://rada.org.pl/kalisz/images/lech_kaczynski8592.jpg
well, they're easily confused

This has echoes of the 1994 Chinook crash on Kintyre which wiped out almost the entire Northen Ireland intelligence community. I think that after that all high ranking officers had to travel seperately.

tragic everywhere in this bitch

will pour a Żywiec out for you dogg.

― 404s & Heartbreak (jim in glasgow), Saturday, April 10, 2010 6:31 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

hahaha i just stumbled upon some discount zyviec yesterday

clicked on this thread hoping that it was the set up for a tasteless pollock joke and not a real thing that happened

about fish?

not to get all shakey mo but dude was a right-wing homophobe, i'm not shedding too many tears.

Well, yes. The man was a total ass, but I don't think this makes this any less horrible. Even excluding him there is his wife and others who died. If people need to agree with you politically for you to feel bad about their death then on the other side of the spectrum there is Jerzy Szmajdziński, who died today as well.

great moments in awkwardly phrased headlines, from the NYTimes:

World Leaders, Especially Merkel, Express Sadness

Kaczynski was a horse's ass, but this is tragic. especially considering that there were a lot of high-ranking Polish government officials and political leaders who were killed in this crash.

maybe you have to be of Polish ancestry to appreciate the irony that the plane crashed in Russia en route to a memorial service at Katyn Forest (where the Soviets killed a large number of Poland's pre-WWII intelligentsia). Polish history notwithstanding, this is a big news story people.

Oh wow, I did not realise that. I haven't read this since it was published, so maybe I'm misremembering, but I found this a useful overview of Poland/Russia relations re: Katyn: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/21012.

this would be the equivalent of a plane crash taking out the President and Mrs. Obama, Timothy Geithner, high-ranking State Department and Pentagon officials, and a number of congressmen.

I don't recall planes carrying Polish presidents crashing when Obama wasn't president, has anyone @ FOX made this point yet?

I may be wrong, but I don't think the President has such an important role under the Polish constitution - I think the PM is the main man.

i think you're right, Ismael, the Prime Minister is more powerful under the Polish constitution.

This is just huge, there was an election due in Poland pretty soon. And the President's brother (his twin, no less) is actually head of the main opposition. A big chunk of some of the most influential people in the country have just been wiped out in one fell swoop; it's gamechanging for political life in the country.

with the number of flights that every head of state of every country in the world has taken every year since heads of state started flying, it's pretty remarkable that something like this hasn't happened more often, just statistically?

GEORGE: You know Keith, what I've always wondered, with all these ball clubs
flying around all season don't you think there would be a plane crash? ...

KEITH: (to Jerry) Do you perform anywhere in new York right now?

JERRY: I'm performing in this club on the east Side. You should come in.

GEORGE: But if you think about it...26 teams, 162 games a season, you'd think
eventually an entire team would get wiped out.

KEITH: You know, I live on the East Side.

JERRY: I'll tell you what, I'll give you my number and uh, just give me a call,
tell me whenever you want to go.

KEITH: or maybe just to get together for a cup of coffee

JERRY: Oh. that would be great.

GEORGE: Uh, it's only a matter of time.

KEITH: Who's this chucker?

with the number of flights that every head of state of every country in the world has taken every year since heads of state started flying, it's pretty remarkable that something like this hasn't happened more often, just statistically?

They probably have the least likelihood of pilot error and mechanical failure which must reduce the chances somewhat.

george otm

the george conversation was the first thing I thought of when I heard this news : /

i was thinking that, too, Jordan. i am also wondering if it's SOP (in any country) to have so many top government officials flying in the same plane at the same time -- pretty much so that something like this wouldn't happen.

and according to CNN, it's even worse than what i originally thought -- it's basically the Polish equivalent of the Joint Chiefs of Staff being taken out in one fell swoop:

"The entire top military brass, including the chief of defense and all the services, were on the plane," said Tomas Valasek, of the Center for European Reform. "If that is true, then you're looking at a situation, in effect, of the decapitation of the military services."

Among the military leaders confirmed dead are Aleksander Szczyglo, head of the National Security Office, Gen. Franciszek Gagor, head of the army chief of staff and Bishop Tadeusz Ploski, an army chaplain.

and, as i think someone upthread pointed out, there was the odd plane-crash death of General Wladyslaw Sikorski during WWII (Sikorski was the head of the Polish Government in Exile).

re the prez's homophobia:

http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2008/03/polish-prez-mocks-gay-american-wedding.html

with the number of flights that every head of state of every country in the world has taken every year since heads of state started flying, it's pretty remarkable that something like this hasn't happened more often, just statistically?

― J0rdan S., Saturday, April 10, 2010 5:48 PM (58 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Statistically, it's not that remarkable. There are 87,000 flights (37,000 commercial, the rest general) in the U.S. everyday and about 175 fatal accidents per year, almost all general aviation accidents involving small single engine aircraft. Even in countries with relatively unsafe aviation systems, very nearly every flight arrives safely.

It probably doesn't help to fly around in a 20 year old Russian jet though. Poland is certainly a country with means. I have no idea why they wouldn't get a ten year old Airbus or Boeing to transport top leadership.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:State_leaders_killed_in_aviation_accidents_or_incidents

Although apparently the TU154 has a perfectly decent safety record.

also unclear--why did the pilot try to land 4 times instead of giving up after the 2nd try, as is usual?

Still can't figure out who the black and white screen star enrique posted is and what she is doing there.

yeah, need ID for the would have smashed thread

she is lana turner and he is querying the previous poster's sort-of inexplicable frank o'hara reference

good time to invade poland

loooooool @ max's post

Surely the twin brother has to play it smart here and announce "I'm really Lech Kaczynski"?