Green Arrow vs. Hawkeye

Silver Surfer and Green Lantern have certain parallels.

The DC ones came first. Green Arrow dates from the '50s, while Hawkeye was created well into the '60s. Furthermore, the '50s Flash was a restyling of a character created around 1940, in the first wave of superheroes - and ditto for Hawkman. There are at least a thousand pairs closer than Silver Surfer and Green Lantern. Plastic Man to Elongated Man to Mr Fantastic is an obvious little set.

But they aren't exactly copies. Hawkeye started as a villain, but was popular enough to become an Avenger. Quicksilver started in the early X-Men as a villain (one of Magneto's Brotherhood), and joined the Avengers in the same classic issue as Hawkeye did - along with Quicksilver's sister the Scarlet Witch, who could even be called a copy of DC's earlier Zatanna. The Angel isn't that similar to the alien cop Hawkman, other than both having wings.

There are direct copies too. In the '70s, as something of a gag, the Avengers met an other-dimensional team called the Squadron Supreme, who were a pastiche of the Justice League of America. Some months later, the JLA met a group modelled on the Avengers. All well and good, but Marvel kept bringing the Squadron Supreme back, eventually giving them their own title: apparently because they didn't challenge it at the original time, DC's grounds for a lawsuit were undermined. Going back to the '40s, DC tried to sue Fawcett over Captain Marvel, alleging that he was a copy of Superman.

I guess there is a limited number of ideas for superpowers around. The number of characters who could be said to be post-Batman or post- Superman is almost countless, there are loads of American patriotic heroes (like Captain America), countless strongmen and agile fighters and fliers and heroes with energy-ray powers. There are only a handful of characters whose powers in themselves strike me as of interest - you need a personality and image and all that to go with the characters to make them interesting.

Ow! that was quite an essay! A+

It's interesting that DC never copies Marvel. There are no X-men, Spiderman, or Hulk equevelants at DC. Except who came first, Swamp thing or Man-thing?

And who the hell thought that boggey muscle men with sexy ex-wives make good comic material? Were they right?

And another thing, why did the Watchmen characters so closely resemble other DC characters? That is to say, why didn't they just use Batman and Superman and the like, as oppposed to making up Rorchsac and that owl guy and captain naken/green?

And another thing, I don't think Silver Surfer is that similar to Green Lantern. Only in their cosmic settings and reality warping abilities. Besides, most people just think the Silver Surfer is a iceman clone who can shoot lasers out of his hands. Few causal readers know that he can restructure reality on a molecular level.

And another thing, we should not forget the Blackcat/Catwoman blantent plagerisim. Not subtle in the slightes

You know I can destroy you in Marvel vs. Capcom.

Martin, I really enjoyed that post. Just the ticket.

Not to forget though that Green Arrow - bar his Robin Hood schtick was himself merely a Batman clone. cf The Arrowcave, the Arrowcar and - later to be unsurprisingly a drug addict - sidekick Speedy.

Mind you having a big purple H on your head is bound to get you in trouble with the law.

Yeah Hawkeye has no gay-boy pet to play with. Maybe th Wasp could dress in drag for him.

Watchmen: there is an explanation. This was proposed for the Charlton heroes that DC had just bought up - Night Own was formerly Blue Beetle, Dr Manhattan was Captain Atom and so on. DC didn't want to let Alan do all this stuff to those characters, so they changed them around a bit. The mappings aren't hard to work out if you know the line.

They didn't want Alan to do all that "stuff" to them? Strange. The "stuff" is just "story that is good".

I want to take mike hanel y for a ride.

I like the fact that in the Avengers Mansion they all hang out in their unoforms. I used to not like comics that much because I would always think " Yeah right, like an Alien that can cross the galaxy would not be able to defeat a guy with a sheild. " But Suddenly the other day I realised thats the joy of comics.

Comics, like vidoegames and cartoons, are worthwhile for there paticular reality defying qualities. In Burgertime, you escape from giant food as you try to create giant food. In cartoons, the chain that connects jailbird Sylvester the cat and soem random dog alters it length at will, the laws of physics completely disabled. And in comics, people wear silly outfits and say stuff like "We're going for it this time! No quarter asked, no quarter given! It's everything we've got, and it's got everything we've ever dreamed for! Alright gang.... AVENGERS ASSEMBLE!"

The same goes for Kung fu movies. "Damn you? Wanna die?" These words are oft said in asian action cinema. Not in reality........................

And in a recent song of mine! Attention! Pennysongs 5 ! It is complete!

They didn't want Alan to do all that "stuff" to them? Strange. The "stuff" is just "story that is good".

DC felt that characters like The Question (Rorschach) and Captain Atom (Dr Manhattan) and indeed almost all of them would be unusable afterwards. I cannot recall a good DC comic starring any of these superheroes anyway, but I'm not much of a comics reader these days.

I don't think Alan minded much - it gave him even more leeway when he made up the new group. (Alan Moore was a good friend of mine at the time, but I've only heard from him once in many years now.)