Peter Cook - Did he waste his comic genius?

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

Well, did or didn't he? Having conquered Oxbridge, the West End, Broadway and the BBC before he hit thirty, some might argue there was only one way to go. What do you think?

― Chris Sallis, Saturday, 6 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Link to downloadable Cookies:

http://stabbers.muon.posiweb.net/stabbers/index.htm

― C. Sallis, Esq., Saturday, 6 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

influence on Rotten & John Cooper Clarke, too, I reckon

― Paul, Saturday, 6 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

And the pythons, ben elton, stephen fry, harry enfield, eddie izzard...

― Chris Sallis, Saturday, 6 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

And chris morris. I'll shut up now.

― Chris Sallis, Saturday, 6 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Christ no. He came, he saw, he left an utterly majestic body of work. Then he spent the last 10 years of his life shoving drugs up his arse and drinking himself insensible. Good for him, I say.

He didn't waste his comic genius - he sucked the marrow out of it early in life, and then shut the fuck up. I wish more comedians followed his example YES YOU BEN ELTON YOU FLAGRANT COCK

― clotion, Sunday, 7 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

He appeared in a mercifully short-lived US sitcom, playing a butler, I think, which was definately a waste of his talents. But I don't begrudge anybody wanting to make money, it probably seemed like a good project in the early stages.

― nickn, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I saw that show when I was young, it was my first introduction to Cook. I liked it, but then again being eight or so, I was probably the obvious target market. ;-) First I ever saw Dudley Moore in anything was Wholly Moses...

― Ned Raggett, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

YES YOU BEN ELTON YOU FLAGRANT COCK

I misread this and thought it said "fragrant"

― jamesmichaelward, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

"Mm...Mm...minestrone."

― Ned Raggett, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

It is not possible to waste comic genius. Even when Peter Cook was a pathetic, alcoholic hermit, sucking the last drops from the bottom of the gin bottle, we could all have a jolly laugh at his expense. Dying in semi-obscurity was good, too.

― Aimless, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

five months pass...

I think it is possible to waste comic genius and I think Cook did - he was one of the brightest stars of his generation and ended up releasing celebrity golf videos.

― chris sallis, Friday, 13 December 2002 23:32 (twenty-three years ago)

Ah, but such celebrity golf videos as we shall never see again in this lifetime!

― Aimless, Friday, 13 December 2002 23:37 (twenty-three years ago)

Sort it out, Ned. Follow the bottoms around the room, extend your python, take on Nick Revell, mega Jimmy Carr, and Ralph Machio. Crossroads.

― Price, Saturday, 14 December 2002 00:23 (twenty-three years ago)

"This hot weather will be the death of fat old people who live at the top of hills"

― rainy (rainy), Saturday, 14 December 2002 02:02 (twenty-three years ago)

one year passes...

Did anyone see the BBC2 documentary on him this evening? I loved his first wife. Who was that awful American woman?

Peter Cook was so handsome.

― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 18 September 2004 21:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, I just watched it. That American bird was terrible. Every time she said 'divine' my desire to kill grew stronger. Excellent doc on the whole, I thought, depite total omission of the stuff he did with Chris Morris.

― Wooden (Wooden), Saturday, 18 September 2004 21:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh fuck I knew I'd forgotten to watch something.

― Michael Philip Philip Philip Annoyman (Ferg), Saturday, 18 September 2004 21:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought the documentary was terrible. Not one interesting thing was said. Why not use the time showing some of the material properly, rather than just the one-legged-Tarzan sketch interspersed with Jonathon Miller AGAIN?

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Saturday, 18 September 2004 22:40 (twenty-one years ago)

No, you're right. It was pretty terrible. Surely they could have edited out a few of the "He just had this amazing ability to make people laugh"s?

I just liked it for the footage of him swanning around looking amazing, really.

― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 18 September 2004 22:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I was amazed by how much the young Dudley Moore looked and dressed like Pete Doherty out of the Libertines.

― James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Saturday, 18 September 2004 22:47 (twenty-one years ago)

I just liked it for the footage of him swanning around looking amazing, really.

That's why I watched it, really, too. I don't think he looked that great when he was very young (20 I guess) though. He grew into it. Just before the hair turned grey is the most pleasant period to watch.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Saturday, 18 September 2004 22:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, the Derek & Clive period he looked very cool. But I liked him in the 60s too - just his swagger. No, not quite swagger. Just actually being above it all. I liked him as a student with all his newspapers, too.

I was struck by the realisation that David Walliams is like a minor modern version of Peter Cook.

― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 18 September 2004 22:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not an avid fan of Cook, I only really know him from the Chris Morris stuff and the odd bits I've seen here and there, and I found the programme pretty informative and entertaining. And poignant, in places.

― Wooden (Wooden), Saturday, 18 September 2004 23:10 (twenty-one years ago)

"I think we've found our Gigi."

― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Saturday, 18 September 2004 23:23 (twenty-one years ago)

is anyone torrenting this show? i didn't even know it was on...

― stevie (stevie), Sunday, 19 September 2004 08:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Weirdly, Stevie, I did PVR it at home with the intention of making a DVD for a friend overseas.

There's a torrent up at uknova.com, though.

― James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Sunday, 19 September 2004 16:32 (twenty-one years ago)

wow. that uknova site looks great...

/me goes into frantic download mode...

the cook documentary looks good, i have one on video from about 8 years ago which was great..

― Jack Battery-Pack (Jack Battery-Pack), Sunday, 19 September 2004 18:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I was dissapointed with the documentry for much the same reasons as others have mentioned. As for wasted geius, I'm not so sure about that. His one failing was probably thinking he could make it in film.

― Ed (dali), Sunday, 19 September 2004 19:03 (twenty-one years ago)

thanks james!

― stevie (stevie), Sunday, 19 September 2004 20:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Peter Cook was so handsome.

I just liked it for the footage of him swanning around looking amazing, really.

We live in such a lookist society.

It's amazing how far you can make a small talent stretch if you have the right looks.

― Bob Six (bobbysix), Sunday, 19 September 2004 20:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Isn't it great?

― Alba (Alba), Sunday, 19 September 2004 21:01 (twenty-one years ago)

But looking handsome and being the funniest man in the world for some years, it's amazing that he wasn't a huge global star.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 19 September 2004 21:04 (twenty-one years ago)

That's what I tell myself, too.

― Alba (Alba), Sunday, 19 September 2004 21:07 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm reassured by the fact that it was Dud who got the global stardom, the women, adoration etc...

Hard graft wins out.

― Bob Six (bobbysix), Sunday, 19 September 2004 21:42 (twenty-one years ago)

He was good-looking too.

― Alba (Alba), Sunday, 19 September 2004 21:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Good musician n'all.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 19 September 2004 21:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Luck played its part with Dud and Hollywood - he only got the part in 10 because George Segal walked from the set on the first day of filming. And ultimately he ended up playing Buttons in panto at Southampton, and in his final years pretty well broke as well as terminally ill.

PC's mistake was trying to match him. I remember that Peter Cook & Co one-off he did for LWT in 1980 which was very funny indeed. He was offered a series but opted to go to LA and do The Two Of Us instead - a big mistake and one from which he never really recovered.

Also, Cook's ultimate failing was not to realise that he was a brilliant improvising comedian but not necessarily a good comic actor.

― Donnie Smith The Quiz Kid, Monday, 20 September 2004 10:17 (twenty-one years ago)

"Bedazzled"
Sung by Peter Cook {as 'Drimbl Wedge & the Vegetation'}; Written by Peter Cook & Dudley Moore

Ooh-ooh, ooh-ooh, I'm bedazzled
I don't care
Ooh-ooh, ooh-ooh, I'm bedazzled
So you said
You knock me out
I don't want you
You bust me up
I don't need you
You burn me up
I don't love you
You plug me in
Leave me alone
You switch me on
I'm self-contained
You light me up
Just go away
I'm bedazzled, I'm bedazzled, I'm be-dazzled!

You glimmer
I'm fickle
You glitter
I'm cold
You shimmer
I'm shallow
You drive me wi-i-ild, you drive me wild!
You fill me with inertia

You knock me out
Don't get excited
You bust me up
Save your breath
You burn me up
Cool it
You plug me in
I'm not interested
You switch me on
It's too much effort
You light me up
Don't you ever leave off?
I'm bedazzled, I'm bedazzled, I'm be-dazzled!

I'm not available

― briania (briania), Monday, 20 September 2004 12:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I love "Bedazzled." Cook always seemed a bit stiff and it worked perfectly for his portrayal of George Spiggot. Apparently he got his kicks toward the end of his life by calling into radio talk shows? And drinking far too much.

― eddie hurt (ddduncan), Monday, 20 September 2004 13:16 (twenty-one years ago)

find the mp3s of him on talk radio, as sven... that 'tragically i was an only twin' book has transcriptions of some of Cook's guest appearances that are pure genius...

― stevie (stevie), Monday, 20 September 2004 13:34 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, sven...i need to find the peter cook appreciation society website again, looked at it a year or so back and thought it was all right...

― eddie hurt (ddduncan), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 00:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I turned the 'doc' off, for the same reasons noted above. Too many clever people with a bold and dramatic take on "he was very good". And the same old clips. But, fair enough if you haven't seen them before...

As per a lot of people, he was successful enough to do whatever took his fancy. That LWT prog was great, but it was kinda the same old stuff he'd done before. The "Two of us" was new territory. Yes, it was very bad. But it was different for him.

Feature films? He was great in Bedazzled, and OK to very good in everything else. Oh yes he was. (Supergirl? That was him, yeah?)

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 06:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Never mind all that "Peter Cook - Did he waste his comic genius?" garbage - John Cleese was on that programme and how come no-one ever says "John Cleese - Did he waste his comic genius?". John Cleese hasn't been funny for 20-odd years, Peter Cook was funny (albeit sometimes in bit and pieces) all thru his life!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 09:32 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.niksula.cs.hut.fi/~rsirokov/covers/human_league_-_filling_up_with_heaven_cd1.jpg

― HKM, Tuesday, 21 September 2004 09:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Has John Cleese ever been funny in anything other than Python and Fawlty?

― Donnie Smith The Quiz Kid, Tuesday, 21 September 2004 09:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Isn't that enough?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 09:38 (twenty-one years ago)

fish called wanda?

― stevie (stevie), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 09:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Kevin Kline was funnier

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 09:40 (twenty-one years ago)

actually that's true. cleese is the stright man, tho the film is funny.

― stevie (stevie), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 09:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Skipping 39 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

OK - I've checked the clip on our work server and it's actually a 107min compilation: The Very Best Of Goodbye Again rather than the South Bank Show special that aired on Jan 1. I don't know if this was previously available on VHS, but it's clearly coming out on DVD. Looks pretty good.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 12:05 (twenty-one years ago)

But looking handsome and being the funniest man in the world for some years, it's amazing that he wasn't a huge global star.

This is wrong because whatever Cook was a *genius* at it wasn't the kind of thing that would make him a huge global star. He was good at improv and short sketches. Global star would have more or less had to mean movies, ie sustained pieces of work. He was not a particularly talented actor and was handicapped by:

- as a comic persona, not doing *likeable* (Masked Gazza is right, he was too keen to be *cool*. His lacked the genuine self-deprecation common to most comic personas)

- as a writer, his reluctance to be genuinely collaborative with (ie occasionally defer to) people who *could* have incorporated his ideas into a full-length screenplay.

Dudley *did* do loveable, was happy to play the fool, and realised he needed Blake Edwards more than Blake Edwards needed him.

― frankiemachine, Tuesday, 4 January 2005 12:14 (twenty-one years ago)

this bloke came up to me just now, and he said 'peter cook was vicious'.

― henry miller, Thursday, 6 January 2005 11:49 (twenty-one years ago)

'paul cook was not sid'

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 6 January 2005 12:09 (twenty-one years ago)

xxpost:
You probably don't need me to say this but the pinnacle of good use of the *not likeable* thing is the song in Bedazzled the lyrics of which are posted above.

It's striking me there is some common ground between Peter C and Viv Stanshall- an almost unpackageable genius, underlying sadness, decline into drinking too much but with some of brilliance still intact, lots of stuff never known to us Americans, possible erased by the BBC... Of course what I wrote could describe almost any comedian.

Kevin Kline was funnier
Dadaismus, I am interpreting this as your most withering putdown evah.

― Ken L (Ken L), Thursday, 6 January 2005 13:49 (twenty-one years ago)

*underlying sadness*? What kind of crap did I type?

― Ken L (Ken L), Thursday, 6 January 2005 13:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I always thought Cook was Rotten (ie Lydon got a lot of his schtick from the way Cook rages against God while wearing square specs at the end of 'Bedazzled').

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 6 January 2005 13:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Lydon's voice and that deadpan "I'm so bored, I don't need emotions" persona is pure Peter Cook. Just add Albert Steptoe to the mix and, viola, Johnny Rotten!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 6 January 2005 14:01 (twenty-one years ago)

OTM. All that Richard the III stuff he talks is just a smokescreen. Well, maybe not entirely.

― Ken L (Ken L), Thursday, 6 January 2005 14:04 (twenty-one years ago)

no way, cook was never earnest the way rotten was.

― henry miller, Thursday, 6 January 2005 14:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Didn't Peter Cook play Richard III in the first series of Blackadder? It all adds up.

― Richard C (avoid80), Thursday, 6 January 2005 14:09 (twenty-one years ago)

"Derek and Clive" was a big influence on punk rock, I'm convinced of it. And not just on Lydon. Lydon was earnest on occasion but he was also laughing up his sleeve a lot and the unemotional "I'm so bored" act was obviously just that, an act.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 6 January 2005 14:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Right, because if he really knew what it was like to be bored, he would haven't subjected us to his career in the past 20 years.

Didn't John Cleese, when he still knew something about comedy say something to the effect that "for most people it takes hours to write a five-minute piece of comedy. For Peter Cook, it takes five minutes."

― Ken L (Ken L), Thursday, 6 January 2005 14:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Derek and Clive is very very racist

― oldlib, Thursday, 6 January 2005 14:57 (twenty-one years ago)

derek and clive are characters. peter cook wrote about who they were. they were not pete and dud. i'm not sure they were an influence on punk rock. the first album came out in 1979. they had been bootlegged before then, but i think it was only recorded in about 1976. cook called rotten 'britain's new youth leader'.

― henry miller, Thursday, 6 January 2005 14:59 (twenty-one years ago)

"Derek and Clive" is plain horrible: racist, repulsively misogynistic, just pure hateful. Funny as fuck tho.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 6 January 2005 15:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Dudley Moore: Classic or Dudley?

― Ken L (Ken L), Thursday, 6 January 2005 15:12 (twenty-one years ago)

SUPERGIRL.

I love that movie. He's fab in it. Watch it again, and feel the ennui.

― Huey (Huey), Thursday, 6 January 2005 15:16 (twenty-one years ago)

You could chill drinks on his disdain in that film.

― Kevan (Kevan), Thursday, 6 January 2005 16:36 (twenty-one years ago)

eleven months pass...

'Never mind all that "Peter Cook - Did he waste his comic genius?" garbage - John Cleese was on that programme and how come no-one ever says "John Cleese - Did he waste his comic genius?". John Cleese hasn't been funny for 20-odd years, Peter Cook was funny (albeit sometimes in bit and pieces) all thru his life!'

Now that was seriously funny Dadaismus.

― chris sallis, Wednesday, 21 December 2005 21:48 (twenty years ago)

dadaismus - did he waste his comic genius? apparently not

― jim p. irrelevant (electricsound), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 21:52 (twenty years ago)

'I was struck by the realisation that David Walliams is like a minor modern version of Peter Cook.'

Hahahahahahahhahahahahahahhaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

xpost.

― chris sallis, Wednesday, 21 December 2005 21:52 (twenty years ago)

The emphasis presumably being on 'minor', Alba.

― chris sallis, Wednesday, 21 December 2005 21:55 (twenty years ago)

Cor! I'm looking at this thread and a trailer comes on More4 for Peter Cook & Dudley Moore: The Lost Tapes - Boxing Day. I'll say it again. Cor!

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 22:38 (twenty years ago)

Cor indeed, that sounds extremely enticing.

― chris sallis, Wednesday, 21 December 2005 23:16 (twenty years ago)

Edifying and undeinably hilarious stuff 'I'm Banned'.

'As a comic persona, not doing *likeable* (Masked Gazza is right, he was too keen to be *cool*. His lacked the genuine self-deprecation common to most comic personas)'

Personae surely ;)

Seriously though, that's uncut nonsense. You can't be funny because you're a superior, supremely eloquent, egotistic, coke-addled, quick-witted, world-beating, beautiful cunt?

Bull.

Anyway in the interviews I've been listening to recently it's apparent that Cook could play the self-dep card as well as anyone.

How difficult is it to maintain a humble, self-deprecating media persona when faced with universal critical adoration and its attendant temptations, Momus?

― chris sallis, Wednesday, 21 December 2005 23:34 (twenty years ago)

Oops, wrong universe!

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 22 December 2005 09:19 (twenty years ago)

No-one has mentioned Revolver yet...

People say he wasted his talent presumably because he didn't devote his time to keeping them entertained. As long as he had enough money to live on he was happy to save his talent for entertaining his friends & himself, which seems a far more civilised way to live than flogging your guts out trying to make "the public" laugh.

― bham, Thursday, 22 December 2005 10:13 (twenty years ago)

Revolver.

A decent writeup of this series was in Record Collector, a couple months ago.

Basically, a 'new wave' themed nightclub, kicked off for a pilot episode with Steel Pulse, Costello, Kate Bush, and Pete as a droll/stroppy host.

(When could this happen? A new cutting edge music themed show appears on Saturday early evening primest time possible. Never, that's when. It must have been an administrative error!)

Anyhow, after that, the series proper ended up at the 11:30 sunday evening slot and moved around a lot. And suffered by running out of great acts that would do it, the 'concerns' of our lord protectors (now deposed), and some very dodgy booking choices (Bonnie Tyler, Eddie Kidd the motorbike leapoverbuses person looking frightened to death fronting a band), and that was yer lot.

One of Pete's shining hours, and a natural extention from doing "Derek and Clive"

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 22 December 2005 10:34 (twenty years ago)

http://www2.toshiba-elevator.co.jp/elv/newsnavi/volumes/15/news/images/spe01.jpg

maybe, maybe not

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 22 December 2005 11:41 (twenty years ago)

Those who the gods wish to destroy, they first call a 'comic genius'.

― Bob Six (bobbysix), Thursday, 22 December 2005 12:19 (twenty years ago)

i hope they destroy catherine tate.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Thursday, 22 December 2005 12:20 (twenty years ago)

she probably doesn't really look too bothered

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 22 December 2005 12:21 (twenty years ago)

I can't say I'm moved either way.

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 22 December 2005 12:21 (twenty years ago)

yeah, but she probably doesn't really look too bothered

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 22 December 2005 12:23 (twenty years ago)

xpost obviously. Like you care.

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 22 December 2005 12:24 (twenty years ago)

she'd probably let people know, if she was bothered.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Thursday, 22 December 2005 12:25 (twenty years ago)

RJG, I'm a big fan of that Peter Cook too. He's a colleague of mine at UCL - I went to a lecture of his about that big blue blob of an art gallery he designed somewhere in Germany.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 22 December 2005 12:33 (twenty years ago)

austria, I think

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 22 December 2005 12:35 (twenty years ago)

I was struck by the realisation that David Walliams is like a minor modern version of Peter Cook.

-- Alba (albab...) (webmail), September 19th, 2004 12:59 AM.

This observation has gone well past its sell by date, I think?

― Bob Six (bobbysix), Thursday, 22 December 2005 12:52 (twenty years ago)

I envy you Brits having access to so much more of his stuff than we do.

When we went to London I forced Ally to let me stop in the BBC store for a minute and my only material souvenir of the entire trip became a DVD of the best of Moore & Cook. I would have picked up more if anything else had been available! WTF with the BBC indeed, nobody needs this much Agatha Christie on film!

Although it could be I confounded my own efforts by spending so much of my time looking for a section labeled "LARFS"

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 22 December 2005 14:47 (twenty years ago)

the bbc used to have a policy of destroying everything people actually liked.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Thursday, 22 December 2005 14:49 (twenty years ago)

.. and archiving permanently, every shipping weather forecast.

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 22 December 2005 14:52 (twenty years ago)

most americans only know him as the priest in "a princess bride"

― cutty (mcutt), Thursday, 22 December 2005 15:14 (twenty years ago)

The right corner of this page, in which it is indicated that only a Canadian VHS copy is currently available, is really a fucking travesty.

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 22 December 2005 16:43 (twenty years ago)

two weeks pass...

I saw the new DVD of the London stage finale of Beyond the Fringe (1962?) last night, and Cook's perf of the coal miner monologue on the bench almost overwhelms everything else. (I'd heard the cast album eons ago, but that probably had only 40% of the material.)

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 9 January 2006 16:04 (twenty years ago)

seven years pass...

he was eemanatin' this ethereal glow

'ello, we're Maggie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6phIWxmF0k

― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 26 December 2013 21:21 (twelve years ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5vdiM3FhwE

― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 26 December 2013 21:29 (twelve years ago)

in answer to the question, from Stephen Fry an emphatic no

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQrTnhkQo5k

― piscesx, Thursday, 26 December 2013 21:34 (twelve years ago)

Speaking at half an hour old is pretty good going ...

― xelab, Thursday, 26 December 2013 21:40 (twelve years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.